Well, OP specifically asked, "Is the performance increases without the MM tune worth the $400?"

Without the MM tune, you only get the Cobb stage 1 for performance, which isn't worth it. Other than that, you are looking at learning to calibrate yourself, which has a very steep learning curve, probably a good deal of expense in dyno time, and very likely inferior results compared to an MM calibration.

I agree that the other functions of the AP are well worth it, and it isn't even very hard to update the dwell and omp tables.

 

you can learn a lot about tuning without ever setting foot on a dyno.

Making minor changes, logging to see the results, rinse repeat...

Remember, MM's own tuning service relies on logs from the AP, not dyno sheets.

So if the OP is willing to take the time to learn, and use his own car as a test bench, he could learn to tune as he goes.

 

I'm sorry, I havent kept up to speed on everything concerning the Cobb AP and I dont mean any insult to MM as I know from everyone here that he's damn good at what he does.

However, he is hardly the only person who can tune a car.

Buying the Cobb AP and having it tuned by someone else is an option right?
As it would be with any other device in existence thats sold for this purpose, only the Cobb is a much better product.

So how in the hell would spending 400$ for a used Cobb be a waste of money?

It just blows my mind that everyone is talking as if Tuning a car without MM's help is a crime...??????

 

Lol you think Jeff wouldnt have his **** straight before going into this business?

 

it's simple.
If you spend $400 for a used AP and choose to tune it elsewhere, that's perfectly fine but where are you going to get it tuned for less then MM?

You'd be better off buying a new AP with custom calibrations for $595.

You won't get tuned for under $200 elsewhere. Most shops charge $200 per hour and that doesn't include dyno time.

 

$400 for a used AP is ridiculous even if you intend to tune it yourself, but uninformed people are nothing new ....

 

What do you mean by ridiculous?

 

A new AP including the MM tuning service is $594. MM's tuning service alone is $299. So, if you plan on using MM's tuning service, you need to get a used AP for less than $194. If you don't, you might as well get a new one.
http://www.mazdamaniac.com/cobb/accessport.htm

 

Again, he's not the only person on the planet who can tune...

I get it for 400$ and I save money.

I have a friend who's job is to build FI projects and tune cars.

So how is it ridiculous for me to buy a used one at 400$?

Its like everyone here lives in a world where nobody can tune cars but people on here.

Most people involved in tuner cars, track racing and such knows someone who can tune cars. They might not all have great deals, or 0 cost as I do locally, but they surely can manage.

I just dont get it.

 

When they go for $300, I would say that it would be too much.

 

300$ it is then

I guess the price wasnt really the point, I was really debating about buying a used AP. I should have been clearer.

 

Yes? No? I'm having trouble parsing that sentence, but I think calibrations are most certainly covered by copyright. If, that is, they would be considered different enough from Denso's IP to be copyrightable as a derivative work.

 

No one is suggesting that I am. They are just pointing out the economics of it all.

That said, you might want to look for the success stories of other Cobb-authorized tuners for the RX-8. Let me know when you find one...

 

correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought MM wasn't selling AP's anymore?

 

You are wrong.

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-engine-tuning-forum-63/cobb-accessport-rx-8-a-208857/
https://www.rx8club.com/mazdamaniac-183/attention-current-mazdamaniac-custom-calibration-customers-212845/

 

^^ i'm glad I was wrong lol. so, MM, I just want to make sure I understand perfectly. If I were to install a greddy turbo kit on the car, and purchase an AP with your calibrations (as I understand you have a map for the greddy turbo kit), would it be absolutely necessary for a dyno tune?

 

The Calibration Service is a service, not a pre-packaged tune.
You should check out that second link as well as the instructions for the MMCCS to see how it works.

The dyno is a tool. Whether or not you "need" it is a different discussion.

 

gotcha. I tried to PM you, but it said your inbox was full...screw it, i'll just ask you here :p. I will be in the market for an AP pretty soon and I just wanted to know if it would it be possible for you to set up a tune for my current set up as well as a tune for a turbocharged application? I ask because like I said, I would like to buy one soon, but I also plan on turbocharging the car end of the year. I imagine I would need the turbo on the car to really determine anything though....

 

Please read the link I provided for you.

 

"^^actually, I think I just answered my own question...but go ahead and answer it anyway "

Edit: i didn't mean to post this after you responded. thank you sir!

 

Cobb let's the USER tune it's own car's parameters while driving as well, why would it not be worth it minus a custom tune? Tune it yourself man it's called Seat of the Pants tuning.. I had a Megasquirt II on my StarQuest and I tuned it myself basically and to anyone who knows about MS they are the hardest EMS to work with and tune.. I am thinking about buying me a Cobb AP, they are supposed to be very versatile in tuning the stock ECU and I see Boosted Rx-8's with Cobb's so why buy a Standalone ECU when U can get away with just a Cobb..

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/cobb/accessport.htm

 

The Cobb is a very good tool. But a tool is only as good as the person using it. If you can't/won't learn to tune or pay to have it tuned then the Cobb is just an expensive gauge/code reader.

 

Actually, the MegaSquirt is probably the most versatile stand-alone and the most "tunable" option out there.
It is far from the most difficult (really, any flash tuner is going to be the "hardest" sine it has the largest array of ambiguously functional tables), but if you understand MS tuning, you are well on your way to understanding OE flash tuning.

 

i would love to learn how to tune my car with the cobb. however i would also like to not have to replace and engine or two in the process.

the renisis is such a different beast form anything ive worked on the price for MM tune outweighs my pride and the alternative.

 

Yeah, we already took care of that for most people.