Help on DIY LS2 Coils
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 1
From: Cacti Land, AZ
I'm not a vendor, not related to a vendor selling these products, and not sponsored or paid or receive free parts for these products by any vendor.
That someone like yourself wants an easy, supplied solution is fine. People getting bashed,criticized, or pressured for not going to any particulor vendor and instead building/making their own kit is total BS ....
That someone like yourself wants an easy, supplied solution is fine. People getting bashed,criticized, or pressured for not going to any particulor vendor and instead building/making their own kit is total BS ....
I suppose being a forum vendor allows you the privilege of repeatedly attacking me personally without Moderator reprimand. I don't need to resort to calling you names or "you're either with us or against us" fanboi tactics, before or after. If people want to buy into your BS it's no skin off my back.
otherwise people can choose to read & decide for themselves, the proof is all over the forum.
The LS2 coil compatibility was realized by me. I bought a set of LS2 Vette coils to start in 2006. The Yukon coil was well known with the same vids & info that still exist on the internet, but at that time there was no PCM software access and they are a better fit for the OE dwell. I never put the time into finding PnP connectors and ended up selling the parts to MazdaManiac later, and the BHR kit was born:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aft...-137423/page2/
supporting history for the next thread:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-maj...-209040/page3/
Probed the waters starting on this page. A number of people were starting to realize things were not quite right under various conditions. If you go to the beginning and read the whole thing throuhg it's obvious who knew, and of course who didn't .... It wasn't until later in the thread that the answer is revealed:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-eng...-178635/page4/
and people can't even offer information to the other members here without it turning into a "we're going to lose customers" bashfest:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...-coils-221536/
none of the scare tactics came true for the people using them ...
.
Mark, people see you for the transparent fool you are (with more and more every day) and here is why;
1) You have no competing products to offer which demonstrate your "superior" approach or knowledge of anything you attest or anything you criticize.
2) You have no particular driving/racing success, either, which would lend credibility to your approaches on things. Monnar and Kuhn are far more credible than you and they are half your age and have been racing for less time than you.
3) You have yet to complain about other products that haven't what you demand by way of objective, tangible, proof of their efficacy. Products such as intakes, water pumps, exhaust systems, etc. BHR is the only company upon which you vehemently focus your criticisms so it is obvious you have a "hard-on" for me and for my company.
I really wish you would wake up and realize that just because the pond is getting smaller does not make you a bigger fish. <mod edit: last sentance isn't within the rules of the forum>
1) You have no competing products to offer which demonstrate your "superior" approach or knowledge of anything you attest or anything you criticize.
2) You have no particular driving/racing success, either, which would lend credibility to your approaches on things. Monnar and Kuhn are far more credible than you and they are half your age and have been racing for less time than you.
3) You have yet to complain about other products that haven't what you demand by way of objective, tangible, proof of their efficacy. Products such as intakes, water pumps, exhaust systems, etc. BHR is the only company upon which you vehemently focus your criticisms so it is obvious you have a "hard-on" for me and for my company.
I really wish you would wake up and realize that just because the pond is getting smaller does not make you a bigger fish. <mod edit: last sentance isn't within the rules of the forum>
otherwise people can choose to read & decide for themselves, the proof is all over the forum.
The LS2 coil compatibility was realized by me. I bought a set of LS2 Vette coils to start in 2006. The Yukon coil was well known with the same vids & info that still exist on the internet, but at that time there was no PCM software access and they are a better fit for the OE dwell. I never put the time into finding PnP connectors and ended up selling the parts to MazdaManiac later, and the BHR kit was born:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aft...-137423/page2/
supporting history for the next thread:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-maj...-209040/page3/
Probed the waters starting on this page. A number of people were starting to realize things were not quite right under various conditions. If you go to the beginning and read the whole thing throuhg it's obvious who knew, and of course who didn't .... It wasn't until later in the thread that the answer is revealed:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-eng...-178635/page4/
and people can't even offer information to the other members here without it turning into a "we're going to lose customers" bashfest:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...-coils-221536/
none of the scare tactics came true for the people using them ...
.
Last edited by RIWWP; Jan 19, 2015 at 03:09 PM.
Ray, I removed the last sentance from your post, that one was stepping over the line.
Team,
You also seem to take it upon yourself to bash, critize, or pressure people against going to any particular vendor if that vendor is BHR. People are going to keep calling you out on the hypocritical behavior, and the staff isn't inclined to prevent them.
Re-read Omicron's message to you back on 6/8/2014. I can re-send it to you if you don't have it any more. If there is anyone on the forum that the staff has been overly lenient to, it's you.
Team,
People getting bashed,criticized, or pressured for not going to any particulor vendor and instead building/making their own kit is total BS ....
Re-read Omicron's message to you back on 6/8/2014. I can re-send it to you if you don't have it any more. If there is anyone on the forum that the staff has been overly lenient to, it's you.
I know that vendors are important to this forum but the spirit of DIY is even moreso . Any attempts to bully people into buying from a vendor vs doing it themselves is contrary to what we are about IMO .
I am all for DIY (half my engine bay is DIY), I have just seen so many shitty DIY LS coil projects in person that it just think in general it is a bad idea for most to attempt to make their own. But of course, we can all spend our money how we like. At the end of the day it is just opinions. Which is why I always tell people to do their homework.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; Jan 19, 2015 at 03:53 PM.
Probably true . Although people have to start somewhere , and f it up a few times while learning how to do it properly .
My point is that one should be bullying anyone into, or out of, ANYTHING.
As long as it is just opinions about options available, that's 100% fine. Charles gets more leeway beyond opinions because he IS paying to be allowed to promote his products here. So yes, he is allowed to provide the reasons why someone should go with his product
The line gets crossed when a non-vendor is trying to harass or bash someone for the choice they made. Disagreement is one thing, snarky nasty comments are quite another.
To everyone here...
As a moderator, I didn't see anyone bashing anyone for their choice of what to do, I have only seen people being bashed for their choice of what they have done, or what their opinion on the process is.
For example, this comment:
This comment:
Is not, since it is deliberately belittling someone else's opinion and choice. It doesn't even have anything technical or substantial to back up the comment.
See what I mean?
Disagree and argue technical points or reasons all you want, but you step over the line when you target someone and their opinions / choices with comments like that.
Last edited by RIWWP; Jan 19, 2015 at 04:06 PM.
and then there's this
Then there are the posts that were either deleted or edited, so the appearance today doesn't always match the context then. However, I hear you loud and clear.
If you have a minute perhaps you could also help me understand what I did wrong to have the same thing happen here several days earlier:
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-...-248956/page2/
I did my best to respond with a level head. Thanks
.
Then there are the posts that were either deleted or edited, so the appearance today doesn't always match the context then. However, I hear you loud and clear.
If you have a minute perhaps you could also help me understand what I did wrong to have the same thing happen here several days earlier:
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-...-248956/page2/
I did my best to respond with a level head. Thanks
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; Jan 19, 2015 at 08:42 PM.
Based on the replies that followed between myself and the other member it didn't seem to me that there was really any problem here either. In retrospect I regret putting it that way even though it wasn't intended with the vitrol that was implied later. Just the same, I'd appreciate you also editing out the name calling at the beginning of the other partially edited post as well.
You weren't, but I don't see that he was either. I saw it at the time and left you two alone on it as there was nothing for me to step in on. You challenged a point of business and he responded.
I'm not really interested in discussing every single point of disagreement between members because we are all people and not everyone gets along. I'm not here to try to make everyone like each other, only to help keep emotions in check to keep civility and discussions from tailspinning out of control since that harms the whole forum regardless of who is 'right' or who is involved. So I'm not going to get involved in the inter-personal dislikes, and doing will be significantly derailing this thread. I was responding to this threads particular problem as a moderator 'in the clear' here because it's well known that I have significant personal non-moderator opinions about both people involved. I felt that acting 'behind closed doors' on this thread's problem wasn't in the best interests of the community. It is the same reason that I'm not 'cleaning up' the derailed thread and deleting all of this discussion.
But please, move back to the thread topic.
If anyone has further complaints, questions, or critizism about decisions I have made or how to handle issues or how to handle other members, feel free to PM me. That door has always been open.
I'm not really interested in discussing every single point of disagreement between members because we are all people and not everyone gets along. I'm not here to try to make everyone like each other, only to help keep emotions in check to keep civility and discussions from tailspinning out of control since that harms the whole forum regardless of who is 'right' or who is involved. So I'm not going to get involved in the inter-personal dislikes, and doing will be significantly derailing this thread. I was responding to this threads particular problem as a moderator 'in the clear' here because it's well known that I have significant personal non-moderator opinions about both people involved. I felt that acting 'behind closed doors' on this thread's problem wasn't in the best interests of the community. It is the same reason that I'm not 'cleaning up' the derailed thread and deleting all of this discussion.
But please, move back to the thread topic.
If anyone has further complaints, questions, or critizism about decisions I have made or how to handle issues or how to handle other members, feel free to PM me. That door has always been open.
Last edited by RIWWP; Jan 20, 2015 at 03:22 PM.
So to get this thread back on topic....
Personally, if you were really going to spend the money strictly on a quality DIY solution, and by quality I mean legit GM coils (not cheaper chinese clones), it would almost make more sense to splurge a bit more (or even for the same price depending on vendor/deals) for the IGN-1A coils. Far better power output in comparison, and better dwell rating out of the box.
Granted it wont be as easy as 'plug and play' since you would have to replace the input power to a higher gauge to support the current, and a solid mount location as it wont really fit in the oem location. But this is a DIY thread afterall.
As a side note, be aware of the ebay pnp ls2 harness. During my trials I found that (mine at least) wasn't up to snuff on the grounding side. The ground wire was too small and too long and caused some issues w/ power delivery and arcing (and yes I took care to appropriately shield my coils' outputs). IMHO, I would either shorten the ground (the shorter the better), or replace with a larger wire.
Personally, if you were really going to spend the money strictly on a quality DIY solution, and by quality I mean legit GM coils (not cheaper chinese clones), it would almost make more sense to splurge a bit more (or even for the same price depending on vendor/deals) for the IGN-1A coils. Far better power output in comparison, and better dwell rating out of the box.
Granted it wont be as easy as 'plug and play' since you would have to replace the input power to a higher gauge to support the current, and a solid mount location as it wont really fit in the oem location. But this is a DIY thread afterall.
As a side note, be aware of the ebay pnp ls2 harness. During my trials I found that (mine at least) wasn't up to snuff on the grounding side. The ground wire was too small and too long and caused some issues w/ power delivery and arcing (and yes I took care to appropriately shield my coils' outputs). IMHO, I would either shorten the ground (the shorter the better), or replace with a larger wire.
There are no magical sea bass ...
EFI Pantera sells a revised D585 coil. Essentially they removed the internal limiter that the GM version has. Power output is higher and you don't have to get the dreaded misfire boom if the limiter is tripped.
I would still chose the IGN-1A "Mercury" coil ...
EFI Pantera sells a revised D585 coil. Essentially they removed the internal limiter that the GM version has. Power output is higher and you don't have to get the dreaded misfire boom if the limiter is tripped.
I would still chose the IGN-1A "Mercury" coil ...
There are no magical sea bass ...
EFI Pantera sells a revised D585 coil. Essentially they removed the internal limiter that the GM version has. Power output is higher and you don't have to get the dreaded misfire boom if the limiter is tripped.
I would still chose the IGN-1A "Mercury" coil ...
EFI Pantera sells a revised D585 coil. Essentially they removed the internal limiter that the GM version has. Power output is higher and you don't have to get the dreaded misfire boom if the limiter is tripped.
I would still chose the IGN-1A "Mercury" coil ...
It's an automatic firing feature of the coil in order to limit current. It kicks in when the dwell time is like 40ms or something. let me see if I can find the the data I found on it really quick.
It's been taken offline, I'll see if I have it saved at home later. Honestly you're not going to run into it on a rotary unless your dwell times are set incorrectly (dwell can't be longer than a cycle!)
It has an internal limiter, such that once the coil hits the saturation point it automatically dumps
just like this Japanese sozu ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shishi-...ishiodoshi.gif
the thing is, depending on who made the coil there is some variance on when this happens, as much as almost 1mS. The so-called "cheap e-Bay China" coil I run is one of the highest. However, it's a dwell vs voltage relationship. That's why you set the map up to compensate for voltage above 12 with a lower dwell value and vice-versa.
the issue is that if you call out 5.5mS dwell and the coil saturates at 4.5mS, it automatically fires before it was supposed to i.e. ignition advance. See below
just like this Japanese sozu ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shishi-...ishiodoshi.gif
the thing is, depending on who made the coil there is some variance on when this happens, as much as almost 1mS. The so-called "cheap e-Bay China" coil I run is one of the highest. However, it's a dwell vs voltage relationship. That's why you set the map up to compensate for voltage above 12 with a lower dwell value and vice-versa.
the issue is that if you call out 5.5mS dwell and the coil saturates at 4.5mS, it automatically fires before it was supposed to i.e. ignition advance. See below
Last edited by TeamRX8; Jan 24, 2015 at 06:17 PM.