Flywheel flywheels flywheels.
09-29-2013, 06:32 PM
#527
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Well i'd recommend the ACT Pro-lite instead, just for the benefit of the anti-n00bs
Also recommend an OE or OE Replacement clutch assembly for normally aspirated Renesis engines. DO NOT buy a Stage 1 etc. (including Mazdaspeed) unless you have converted to forced induction.
Also recommend an OE or OE Replacement clutch assembly for normally aspirated Renesis engines. DO NOT buy a Stage 1 etc. (including Mazdaspeed) unless you have converted to forced induction.
12-29-2013, 11:02 AM
#530
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So I've done the upgrade along with my new stock clutch, and wanted to follow up to my inquiries about the MazdaSpeed Flywheel - also specifically to TeamRX8
The MS flywheel upgrade is fantastic. The car is an absolutely pleasure to drive, there is a noticeable and completely worthwhile appreciation of drivability, acceleration and shifting. Its easier to get rolling from a stop in a smooth manner (no more throttle dip to contend with).
Many people are making paper-judgments on these products (ehem, TeamRX8
but from someone who has actually driven an identical car before and after the upgrade - its fantastic. Great balance of performance and drivability. Even my wife who never notices such things - said she noticed the car was faster, and more fun to drive.
The car feels like it has more power - I say "feels like" because that's the net result; its just faster to drive, responds quicker, and has more power (I realize the engine isn't making more power, but thats the feel). The extra power is especially noticed in the lower RPM's, the car pulls off the lower gears with much more ease - spins up faster. I ride motorcycles and I typically drop a 1 tooth in my front sprockets on my motorcycles to gain torque. This is the same feeling the flywheel gives the RX8 - its like adding a 1/2 gear - each gear delivers a bit more pull, speeds off the bottom with more authority.
Ok so there it is, thought I should come back with a follow up for anyone interested in the upgrade.
The MS flywheel upgrade is fantastic. The car is an absolutely pleasure to drive, there is a noticeable and completely worthwhile appreciation of drivability, acceleration and shifting. Its easier to get rolling from a stop in a smooth manner (no more throttle dip to contend with).
Many people are making paper-judgments on these products (ehem, TeamRX8
but from someone who has actually driven an identical car before and after the upgrade - its fantastic. Great balance of performance and drivability. Even my wife who never notices such things - said she noticed the car was faster, and more fun to drive.The car feels like it has more power - I say "feels like" because that's the net result; its just faster to drive, responds quicker, and has more power (I realize the engine isn't making more power, but thats the feel). The extra power is especially noticed in the lower RPM's, the car pulls off the lower gears with much more ease - spins up faster. I ride motorcycles and I typically drop a 1 tooth in my front sprockets on my motorcycles to gain torque. This is the same feeling the flywheel gives the RX8 - its like adding a 1/2 gear - each gear delivers a bit more pull, speeds off the bottom with more authority.
Ok so there it is, thought I should come back with a follow up for anyone interested in the upgrade.
12-29-2013, 08:48 PM
#531
Have to say it , as some one who has been there and gone back............. LW Flys rank right up there with the short shifter ... waaaaay overrated ! Worthwhile on a racetrack for heel toe shifting, noticeable in 1st gear , barely noticeable in 2nd . Overall performance increase ....stuff all .
The placebo effect is strong in this thread.
The placebo effect is strong in this thread.
Last edited by Brettus; 12-29-2013 at 10:14 PM.
12-30-2013, 01:36 AM
#532
Un-Registered User
Have to say it , as some one who has been there and gone back............. LW Flys rank right up there with the short shifter ... waaaaay overrated ! Worthwhile on a racetrack for heel toe shifting, noticeable in 1st gear , barely noticeable in 2nd . Overall performance increase ....stuff all .
The placebo effect is strong in this thread.
The placebo effect is strong in this thread.
Last edited by Slidin8; 12-30-2013 at 03:54 PM.
01-01-2014, 11:33 AM
#535
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Have to say it , as some one who has been there and gone back............. LW Flys rank right up there with the short shifter ... waaaaay overrated ! Worthwhile on a racetrack for heel toe shifting, noticeable in 1st gear , barely noticeable in 2nd . Overall performance increase ....stuff all .
The placebo effect is strong in this thread.
The placebo effect is strong in this thread.
I've done changes to my car or motorcycle, and my wife hasn't felt a thing - perhaps you have a similar driving sensitivity, or perhaps its just unconscious bias. I think with a mod like this, you'll either appreciate the difference, or you won't - but there IS a difference.
01-01-2014, 02:07 PM
#536
Agreed - there is . Was not questioning that point . What I said was that it is "overrated" .
I realised some time ago why people gush so much about the mods they do to their cars . It's all about the the money and effort they put into doing the mod and the satisfaction they feel when there is a difference . Often the only difference is in their minds .With the flywheel unlike many other 'performance' mods there actually is a noticeable difference (in 1st and 2nd) . It's so unusual with this car to get that , so everyone goes gaga over it .
On a 1/4 mile drag the difference might be a car length ............... maybe . For track use , where no time is spent in 1st gear , there probably isn't anything in it . And yes , I have actually raced my car with a light fly against other rx8s without one on a track. Downshifting is easier ... that's about it .
For street car use (apart from off the lights ) no difference.
I took mine off because I got sick of the way the engine responded from low rpm in 1st. I finally realised ( after driving a stock 8 again ) how the mods I'd made to it (heavy duty clutch and LW fly) had made the car really quirky to drive . Having more than enough power in 1st (from the turbo) meant that I couldn't utilise the flywheel advantage anyway .
I realised some time ago why people gush so much about the mods they do to their cars . It's all about the the money and effort they put into doing the mod and the satisfaction they feel when there is a difference . Often the only difference is in their minds .With the flywheel unlike many other 'performance' mods there actually is a noticeable difference (in 1st and 2nd) . It's so unusual with this car to get that , so everyone goes gaga over it .
On a 1/4 mile drag the difference might be a car length ............... maybe . For track use , where no time is spent in 1st gear , there probably isn't anything in it . And yes , I have actually raced my car with a light fly against other rx8s without one on a track. Downshifting is easier ... that's about it .
For street car use (apart from off the lights ) no difference.
I took mine off because I got sick of the way the engine responded from low rpm in 1st. I finally realised ( after driving a stock 8 again ) how the mods I'd made to it (heavy duty clutch and LW fly) had made the car really quirky to drive . Having more than enough power in 1st (from the turbo) meant that I couldn't utilise the flywheel advantage anyway .
01-01-2014, 03:27 PM
#537
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Agreed - there is . Was not questioning that point . What I said was that it is "overrated" .
I realised some time ago why people gush so much about the mods they do to their cars . It's all about the the money and effort they put into doing the mod and the satisfaction they feel when there is a difference . Often the only difference is in their minds .With the flywheel unlike many other 'performance' mods there actually is a noticeable difference (in 1st and 2nd) . It's so unusual with this car to get that , so everyone goes gaga over it .
On a 1/4 mile drag the difference might be a car length ............... maybe . For track use , where no time is spent in 1st gear , there probably isn't anything in it . And yes , I have actually raced my car with a light fly against other rx8s without one on a track. Downshifting is easier ... that's about it .
For street car use (apart from off the lights ) no difference.
I took mine off because I got sick of the way the engine responded from low rpm in 1st. I finally realised ( after driving a stock 8 again ) how the mods I'd made to it (heavy duty clutch and LW fly) had made the car really quirky to drive . Having more than enough power in 1st (from the turbo) meant that I couldn't utilise the flywheel advantage anyway .
I realised some time ago why people gush so much about the mods they do to their cars . It's all about the the money and effort they put into doing the mod and the satisfaction they feel when there is a difference . Often the only difference is in their minds .With the flywheel unlike many other 'performance' mods there actually is a noticeable difference (in 1st and 2nd) . It's so unusual with this car to get that , so everyone goes gaga over it .
On a 1/4 mile drag the difference might be a car length ............... maybe . For track use , where no time is spent in 1st gear , there probably isn't anything in it . And yes , I have actually raced my car with a light fly against other rx8s without one on a track. Downshifting is easier ... that's about it .
For street car use (apart from off the lights ) no difference.
I took mine off because I got sick of the way the engine responded from low rpm in 1st. I finally realised ( after driving a stock 8 again ) how the mods I'd made to it (heavy duty clutch and LW fly) had made the car really quirky to drive . Having more than enough power in 1st (from the turbo) meant that I couldn't utilise the flywheel advantage anyway .
My car is completely stock (although I've had a MS CAI installed at one time). I would never think that a flywheel is for a 1/4 mile - nor is an RX8
This is a driveability mod first and foremost when applied to the street. Heck just the increased throttle blip control for downshifts is worth it for some. My posts and POV clearly are not racing-based - I could care less about track performance 1/4 mile or twisty - but I still don't know how you would argue a LW Fly isn't a benefit. Clearly not a placebo as you say (contradicted even from your own posts), but its not going to be advantageous to everyone.
Those with a similar setup to my car, that share my interests or priorities driving on the street will benefit as I have.
Last edited by Mobile; 01-01-2014 at 03:32 PM.
01-01-2014, 05:07 PM
#539
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01-01-2014, 06:39 PM
#543
So I've done the upgrade along with my new stock clutch, and wanted to follow up to my inquiries about the MazdaSpeed Flywheel - also specifically to TeamRX8
The MS flywheel upgrade is fantastic. The car is an absolutely pleasure to drive, there is a noticeable and completely worthwhile appreciation of drivability, acceleration and shifting. Its easier to get rolling from a stop in a smooth manner (no more throttle dip to contend with).
Many people are making paper-judgments on these products (ehem, TeamRX8 but from someone who has actually driven an identical car before and after the upgrade - its fantastic. Great balance of performance and drivability. Even my wife who never notices such things - said she noticed the car was faster, and more fun to drive.
The car feels like it has more power - I say "feels like" because that's the net result; its just faster to drive, responds quicker, and has more power (I realize the engine isn't making more power, but thats the feel). The extra power is especially noticed in the lower RPM's, the car pulls off the lower gears with much more ease - spins up faster. I ride motorcycles and I typically drop a 1 tooth in my front sprockets on my motorcycles to gain torque. This is the same feeling the flywheel gives the RX8 - its like adding a 1/2 gear - each gear delivers a bit more pull, speeds off the bottom with more authority.
Ok so there it is, thought I should come back with a follow up for anyone interested in the upgrade.
The MS flywheel upgrade is fantastic. The car is an absolutely pleasure to drive, there is a noticeable and completely worthwhile appreciation of drivability, acceleration and shifting. Its easier to get rolling from a stop in a smooth manner (no more throttle dip to contend with).
Many people are making paper-judgments on these products (ehem, TeamRX8
but from someone who has actually driven an identical car before and after the upgrade - its fantastic. Great balance of performance and drivability. Even my wife who never notices such things - said she noticed the car was faster, and more fun to drive.The car feels like it has more power - I say "feels like" because that's the net result; its just faster to drive, responds quicker, and has more power (I realize the engine isn't making more power, but thats the feel). The extra power is especially noticed in the lower RPM's, the car pulls off the lower gears with much more ease - spins up faster. I ride motorcycles and I typically drop a 1 tooth in my front sprockets on my motorcycles to gain torque. This is the same feeling the flywheel gives the RX8 - its like adding a 1/2 gear - each gear delivers a bit more pull, speeds off the bottom with more authority.
Ok so there it is, thought I should come back with a follow up for anyone interested in the upgrade.
Some say that an oem clutch is good enough. I blew out a oem clutch, on my 135 hp RX7, while road racing. I went to a sprung 6 puck. I'm thinking about getting one for the RX8.
01-01-2014, 06:59 PM
#544
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I had the MS LW Flywheel installed while the dealer had my transmission out for a rebuild in June 2005. It was quite a difference and I loved it. I would now like something lighter. The setup Team is using makes me drool, but it's probably too expensive for a car that doesn't see track duty anymore.
Some say that an oem clutch is good enough. I blew out a oem clutch, on my 135 hp RX7, while road racing. I went to a sprung 6 puck. I'm thinking about getting one for the RX8.
Some say that an oem clutch is good enough. I blew out a oem clutch, on my 135 hp RX7, while road racing. I went to a sprung 6 puck. I'm thinking about getting one for the RX8.
01-01-2014, 09:56 PM
#545
Un-Registered User
I had the MS LW Flywheel installed while the dealer had my transmission out for a rebuild in June 2005. It was quite a difference and I loved it. I would now like something lighter. The setup Team is using makes me drool, but it's probably too expensive for a car that doesn't see track duty anymore.
Some say that an oem clutch is good enough. I blew out a oem clutch, on my 135 hp RX7, while road racing. I went to a sprung 6 puck. I'm thinking about getting one for the RX8.
Some say that an oem clutch is good enough. I blew out a oem clutch, on my 135 hp RX7, while road racing. I went to a sprung 6 puck. I'm thinking about getting one for the RX8.
01-02-2014, 12:06 PM
#546
Having "more than enough power in 1st (from the turbo)";
1) Purely subjective analysis and conclusion.
2) The more torque a given engine develops the less, as a percentage, dealing with the weight/design of flywheels will have a perceived effect on the outcome both in terms of drivability and measureable changes in available horsepower to the wheels.
Especially as relates to my second point, engines which are of lower torque or not expected to have external power-adders benefit the most from lighter flywheels.
Then again, few people actually understand the two purposes of engine flywheels, anyway.
1) Purely subjective analysis and conclusion.
2) The more torque a given engine develops the less, as a percentage, dealing with the weight/design of flywheels will have a perceived effect on the outcome both in terms of drivability and measureable changes in available horsepower to the wheels.
Especially as relates to my second point, engines which are of lower torque or not expected to have external power-adders benefit the most from lighter flywheels.
Then again, few people actually understand the two purposes of engine flywheels, anyway.
If I were still NA , I'm pretty sure I would have kept the F/W on . Only because the NA engine needs all the help it can get ..... even though I still feel the performance increase is minuscule and I don't like the compromised drive-ability .
As Mobile rightly pointed out , I am looking at it from the perspective that comes from doing a modification that actually adds a decent amount of power . He said that was my "problem" . Which I have to say, gave me a bit of a giggle.
01-03-2014, 04:10 PM
#547
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If I were still NA , I'm pretty sure I would have kept the F/W on . Only because the NA engine needs all the help it can get ..... even though I still feel the performance increase is minuscule and I don't like the compromised drive-ability .
As Mobile rightly pointed out , I am looking at it from the perspective that comes from doing a modification that actually adds a decent amount of power . He said that was my "problem" . Which I have to say, gave me a bit of a giggle.
As Mobile rightly pointed out , I am looking at it from the perspective that comes from doing a modification that actually adds a decent amount of power . He said that was my "problem" . Which I have to say, gave me a bit of a giggle.
01-05-2014, 03:30 PM
#548
But like you said "it's subjective " . If you spent your hard earned on this mod and notice a difference you are going to gush about it . If I drive an 8 with and without one then step back into my (turbo) 8 I'm like ...................WTF is all the fuss about .
Accept every thing else you are saying except for the midrange thing ... that doesn't make any sense.
Last edited by Brettus; 01-05-2014 at 03:50 PM.
01-31-2014, 01:14 PM
#549
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I have had a quick read over the last few pages and thought I would post up the setup I run in my car track car.
I went with a Quartermaster 7.25” single plate clutch, flex plate off an auto FD RX7 (couldn’t find an rx8 flex), and custom flywheel button and a small diameter throw out bearing.
This set up has far less inertia than most flywheels I have seen and the only issue I have with it is the revs drop very quickly making my slow downshifts challenging when on track.
This set up wouldn’t be good for a daily driver but due to the small diameter throw out bearing would make it an ok weekend set up with soft pedal.
My car is a track car built to class rules that don’t allow aluminium flywheels and only allow single plate clutches. I know some guys in other classes run the 5.5” on the rx7’s but they can have issues with the clutch/flywheel interface running over the flywheel to counter weight bolt countersink holes so a bolt in flywheel button may be needed.
I went with a Quartermaster 7.25” single plate clutch, flex plate off an auto FD RX7 (couldn’t find an rx8 flex), and custom flywheel button and a small diameter throw out bearing.
This set up has far less inertia than most flywheels I have seen and the only issue I have with it is the revs drop very quickly making my slow downshifts challenging when on track.
This set up wouldn’t be good for a daily driver but due to the small diameter throw out bearing would make it an ok weekend set up with soft pedal.
My car is a track car built to class rules that don’t allow aluminium flywheels and only allow single plate clutches. I know some guys in other classes run the 5.5” on the rx7’s but they can have issues with the clutch/flywheel interface running over the flywheel to counter weight bolt countersink holes so a bolt in flywheel button may be needed.