Magic8

After 3 weeks of tuning I think my fuel map is really close to completion. The CZ Rocks! The installation was a breeze and with proper tuning there is definitely power increase. What do I mean by that? I mean if I took a blind test I can tell with the CZ is on or when it's stock.

Of course it's not a straight of the box deal but with tuning this thing really makes the RX8 come alive. I dare say that this mod is the most cost effective mod other than the flywheel.

BTW my coils are fine even after 30+ 8500RPM pulls in 2nd and 3rd gear.

Yes you can get the eManage and Ric Shaw (which may allow controlling the trailing timing,) but the CZ hands down wins because
1. Ease of connecting to the ECU
2. Ability to hide the unit completely inside the ECU box. Noone will know you are running a CZ unless they take apart your ECU box
3. With tuning this thing really works and works well
4. Use eManage internals and eManage software

I'm still tuning the ignition map and of course you can't control the trailing i.e. the split timing, without a third unit. Even with these limitations with the current ignition map it feels strong.

I am starting to wonder if FI is necessary at all? With porting, CZ, and a lightweight flywheel. This car could really have some serious power.

Jaguar_MBA

Good to hear that you like it. So you had to do 30+ pulls, say 3 pulls for $100 30/3=10 units @$100/unit = ~$1,000 of Dyno Fees, plus three weeks, plus you are not done exactly yet, Plus the CZ unit costs $~500+? If I spend ~$500+ dollars on something I want it to work the best it can be from the box.

I still am looking to do an ECU upgrade, but not untill the developers can sell a workable "out of the box" solution.......I am aware of the difficulties and preceived differences in ECU tuning from one RX8 to another.

For example, an ECU upgrade for a 300zx twin turbo will yield ~60HP, that simple.....no dyno testing, no mapping adjustments needed by the end user.

You might be able to sell your map to people, not sure what type of file it is, but it sounds signficantly different then what it orginally came with. How much HP did you gain?

It is just that more then a handful of people have bought the CZ only then to turn around and sell it because it did not work out right for them. Keep us all posted, your fuel map could become the standard.

Xyntax

If you read about our Tuning of CZ 1.1, not one of us spent a buck doing those runs. We may say 2nd or 3rd gear pulls but those are done in special streets. No dynos, just pure Canscan logging and tuning of the CZ unit.

True, it should have been a working unit out of the box. But we're not the kind of people who just whine about it not working, we make it work and get the most of it. Just like Canzoomer (the creator of this), he whined and whined about the slowness of the RX-8. After the whining, he devised a solution.

Sea Ray

I don't recall this being advertised as anything more than it is, maybe a 10% hp gain. I feel the difference but it is not huge. My butt dyno can not tell how much, just that there is a gain.

My unit has worked fine out of the box as I expected and as of right now this is about our only choice if you want this kind of mod. It all depends on your expectations.

BTW,Magic8, I am only an hour from you, how about tuning mine for me? More is always better

mysql101

Out of the box, I have serious doubts about any real returns.

However, with that said, after doing my own testing and tuning, I am very sure gains can be had with the CZ unit, but you really need to tweak it yourself.

mysql101

btw, the reason why i am saying there aren't going to be real returns on an untuned cz, is because the map is still far too rich. Even if you use cz stage 2 map, the afr is in the 12 range, far from the 13.2 afr that gains 25 hp, and 13.7 that gets 45 hp.

My cz tuned to 12 AFR all the way across still allowed brian (epi) to pull on me when his car had no cz installed.

Genom

Another one here that had to go the tweak it yourself route since the latest map showed very lean on my car. But I've got most of it tuned agresively to 13.7 or so and havent had any issues with it now.

Yep, it's a pain in the *** for some cars, and your gonna have to work at it, but I dont mind that since I like to mess with my stuff and it's quite nice tuned up using the canscan to get it right.

Magic8

No dyno runs. Basically running in empty streets at night or on highway onramps (which is my preferred method.)

I actually find the tuning process to be enjoyable, because I'm like Genom, I like messing with my car.

Magic8

[QUOTE=Jaguar_MBA] You might be able to sell your map to people, not sure what type of file it is, but it sounds signficantly different then what it orginally came with. How much HP did you gain?[QUOTE]


No need to sell the maps. People here (Genom, Myself, Jason, Epi, Omni, xyntax, etc.) are sharing the maps in the CZ forum. Anyone interested should check it out.

Relentless

I got a gain out of the box, distinguishable by an immediate improvement in gas mileage. However, the unit does need to be tuned more aggressively to get max gains.

The unit comes with a conservative map. The maps you use to extract more gains will vary based on location and conditions (such as altitude), as well as the modifications on the car.

I'm not sure why everybody is selling theirs all of a sudden; it's just an e-manage in a neat PNP package. I do, however, need to get a wide-band O2 sensor and gauge before we tune my car further.

Genom

I'll post min after I tweak the high end properly in case anybody else can use it. But you can go the wideband route, or use the cars built in one with a canscan package. Added benefit of being able to see ignition advance as well as the AFR's

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

anyone have any suggestions on the timing advance???

Looking closely at my data, I saw a rather large increase in power with no advance added and a very safe a/f ratio... since then I've pretty much kept the a/f ratio the same and have been adding advance (up to 5 degrees) and looking at the numbers I seem to be losing power, especially above 8,000 rpms!?!?!

Anyone have any similar experiences? I'll share some info later - I want to do some runs in the next day or so to verify that my car just wasn't acting weird.

Magic8

I find that the CZ map works pretty well. I just changed the airflow voltage range.

I have to say I am more agressive in the mid range (6K to 7.8K) than I am in the 8k+ range. The RX-8 seems to be pretty good at detecting ping and injecting tons of fuel to stop the ping.

Jaguar_MBA

Thank you folks for sharing with me your CZ input. This has helped me better understand the product better and what it takes to get max benefit from it.

Jaguar_MBA

Hey folks, has anybody tried to create a map with the VFAD forced open all the time? I would surmise that increased airflow at the lower-mid RPMs with the VFAD open all the time, could yield an increase in the horsepower.....versus a lost in power in Mid-Low range with the stock ECU map.

Has anybody already tired this?

Quote from somebody elses post:
Below 7250 rpm, the VFAD is closed. Above 7250rpm with WOT, the VFAD opens up to introduce additional ram air to the air cleaner.

guy321

You would actually lose HP because the intake system is tuned for maximum power in the mid to low range already. Hence the need for VFAD in the first place.

Xyntax

^ Exactly. I wanted to do that VFAD mod before I had my CZ, but after reading up on a bunch of replies and other things, it changed my mind. It would be like trying to install a "ram air jet intake", it really does nothing but mess up your intake tuning.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

i'm soo confused...


i've been using this spreadsheet i made up to calculate horsepower based on readings from the canscan. The first time I plugged the thing in it showed a good 15hp gain over stock. Then i began changing the maps and adding timing over 3 different map revisions and with each timing addition the hp went down each time with the last one being at stock amount- hence my previous comments yesterday.



Well, today I do another run with the last map (lots of timing) that showed stock hp on the same piece of road - this time it made like 25-30hp over stock!?!? I immediately thought something was wrong with what I was doing - so I just graphed the speed vs time for all the runs starting at 40 mph and the last run indeed showed significant improvement!!!


I don't understand at all. The only thing I can think of is when I was changing maps I was going out for like 5 miles beating the crap out of the car, comming back and looking things over and an hour or so later repeating the process. So every time the car was run it was getting the crap beaten out of it. This last run was preceeded by a few trips back and forth to work at a normal pace. Maybe the computer was doing some tuning behind my back based on driving stlye (like we all know is possible) - HOWEVER nothing in the a/f curves or timing curves indicate anything has changed.

I'm seriously confused now... i thought i was understanding things then suddenly i smacked a brick wall.

mysql101

how are you able to graph how much hp you're generating?

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

its a spreadsheet i put to gether that figures out acceleration, combines that with the vehicle mass for power (like a g-tech pro would), and then corrects for drag and weather conditions and a few other things (unlike a g-tech pro).

...i'd give it away but because the CANScan's seem to have noisy data it doesn't work as easily as I had it set up to do and hence i have to do all kinds of data smoothing to get it to work.

Magic8

pr0ber,

Maybe you are getting weird HP readings because your car is heating up or it's too cold outside.

see the follwoing thread
Acceleration and Heat

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

well I know the ecu didn't cut fuel or timing... or at least nothing indicates it did. i'm just thinking maybe it was good old fashion heat soak since between runs the car was in the garage with little air circulating... although the ambient temp was only like 70 degrees

who knows