Can you get 50%-60% more Hp out a Street Port?
06-15-2010, 02:50 PM
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Can you get 50%-60% more Hp out a Street Port?
So I was reading one of the old Rx-7 books and it said you can get up to 50%-60% more HP out of a mid to larger street port. Is this true? you can get that same amount from a Rene? So in theroy you could be making 345hp, now I know that will not probly not be RWHP. Cuz Mazda said the Rx-8 makes 230hp but I have not seen one get over 215rwhp stock... So with a large street port you should be making a little over 300hp.
So I guess is what I am asking is has anyone done a street port with out turbo. I can find any info with someone just doing a street port, its all street port and turbo stuff.
Thanks Guys
Zakk
So I guess is what I am asking is has anyone done a street port with out turbo. I can find any info with someone just doing a street port, its all street port and turbo stuff.
Thanks Guys
Zakk
06-15-2010, 02:56 PM
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Before you get flamed, and you will, please keep in mind the differences between the RX-7 engine and the RX-8 engine.
The RX-7 was peripheral port, which means the available porting space was the width of the housing at a minimum. Flow more air, make more power.
With the Renesis in the RX-8, the ports are on the side, and you can't make them much bigger at all, due to having maximum air passages between the various passages inside the side plates, as well as making sure that you don't have any of the side seals running over the port opening, as well as the direction of expansion making a direct impact on how early, late, or both the port becomes open, due to rotor sweep.
Race funded teams are only getting 220-230whp out of the Renesis NA. For only street level funding, you are only going to get to 210whp or so. The 8 is making nearly max power right from the factory, with the only significant points holding it back are the conservative tune and cat.
The RX-7 was peripheral port, which means the available porting space was the width of the housing at a minimum. Flow more air, make more power.
With the Renesis in the RX-8, the ports are on the side, and you can't make them much bigger at all, due to having maximum air passages between the various passages inside the side plates, as well as making sure that you don't have any of the side seals running over the port opening, as well as the direction of expansion making a direct impact on how early, late, or both the port becomes open, due to rotor sweep.
Race funded teams are only getting 220-230whp out of the Renesis NA. For only street level funding, you are only going to get to 210whp or so. The 8 is making nearly max power right from the factory, with the only significant points holding it back are the conservative tune and cat.
Last edited by RIWWP; 06-15-2010 at 02:58 PM.
06-15-2010, 02:58 PM
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the Reni ports are already fairly large compared to the 7's so you can't get too wild. Most guys just 'clean up' the ports a bit and enlarge them slightly.
Charles R Hill (owner of Black Halo Racing) had his ported and put down 212 whp on the dyno last year. most RX-8's dyno somewhere between 175 - 190 whp
For comparison, my car which is very similar to his in regards to mods dyno'd at 205.
It's not truly a fair comparison since there are too many variables and he didn't do a before / after dyno but I threw mine in there just to show that a 50% increase is not going to be possible.
will torque be increased throughout the band? yup (look up his dyno sheets)
is throttle response going to be a littel better? yup, probably
are you going to get a major increase? No way.
Charles R Hill (owner of Black Halo Racing) had his ported and put down 212 whp on the dyno last year. most RX-8's dyno somewhere between 175 - 190 whp
For comparison, my car which is very similar to his in regards to mods dyno'd at 205.
It's not truly a fair comparison since there are too many variables and he didn't do a before / after dyno but I threw mine in there just to show that a 50% increase is not going to be possible.
will torque be increased throughout the band? yup (look up his dyno sheets)
is throttle response going to be a littel better? yup, probably
are you going to get a major increase? No way.
06-15-2010, 03:00 PM
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Before you get flamed, and you will, please keep in mind the differences between the RX-7 engine and the RX-8 engine.
The RX-7 was peripheral port, which means the available porting space was the width of the housing at a minimum. Flow more air, make more power.
With the Renesis in the RX-8, the ports are on the side, and you can't make them much bigger at all, due to having maximum air passages between the various passages inside the side plates, as well as making sure that you don't have any of the side seals running over the port opening, as well as the direction of expansion making a direct impact on how early, late, or both the port becomes open, due to rotor sweep.
Race funded teams are only getting 220-230whp out of the Renesis NA. For only street level funding, you are only going to get to 210whp or so. The 8 is making nearly max power right from the factory, with the only significant points holding it back are the conservative tune and cat.
The RX-7 was peripheral port, which means the available porting space was the width of the housing at a minimum. Flow more air, make more power.
With the Renesis in the RX-8, the ports are on the side, and you can't make them much bigger at all, due to having maximum air passages between the various passages inside the side plates, as well as making sure that you don't have any of the side seals running over the port opening, as well as the direction of expansion making a direct impact on how early, late, or both the port becomes open, due to rotor sweep.
Race funded teams are only getting 220-230whp out of the Renesis NA. For only street level funding, you are only going to get to 210whp or so. The 8 is making nearly max power right from the factory, with the only significant points holding it back are the conservative tune and cat.
06-15-2010, 05:46 PM
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Before you get flamed, and you will, please keep in mind the differences between the RX-7 engine and the RX-8 engine.
The RX-7 was peripheral port, which means the available porting space was the width of the housing at a minimum. Flow more air, make more power.
With the Renesis in the RX-8, the ports are on the side, and you can't make them much bigger at all, due to having maximum air passages between the various passages inside the side plates, as well as making sure that you don't have any of the side seals running over the port opening, as well as the direction of expansion making a direct impact on how early, late, or both the port becomes open, due to rotor sweep.
Race funded teams are only getting 220-230whp out of the Renesis NA. For only street level funding, you are only going to get to 210whp or so. The 8 is making nearly max power right from the factory, with the only significant points holding it back are the conservative tune and cat.
The RX-7 was peripheral port, which means the available porting space was the width of the housing at a minimum. Flow more air, make more power.
With the Renesis in the RX-8, the ports are on the side, and you can't make them much bigger at all, due to having maximum air passages between the various passages inside the side plates, as well as making sure that you don't have any of the side seals running over the port opening, as well as the direction of expansion making a direct impact on how early, late, or both the port becomes open, due to rotor sweep.
Race funded teams are only getting 220-230whp out of the Renesis NA. For only street level funding, you are only going to get to 210whp or so. The 8 is making nearly max power right from the factory, with the only significant points holding it back are the conservative tune and cat.
I guess I got my hope up to high haha all well still 210 is still nice for a N/A. Hell put that in something as small as a FB Rx7 and you be having some fun.
as for getting flamed I was on Rx7club for a week... and i will never go back to that stupid place. Atleast people here and at RotaryCarClub will talk and tell you whats up, not like club7 with nothing but little kids doing a TII swap and running to much boost and bitching about how crap the motor or car or what ever is... any way thanks guys.
06-15-2010, 06:26 PM
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RX: yup, the 232 number for the 6 port is the power at the flywheel. What we typically quote is rwhp so that's part of the difference.
I've seen anywhere from 170 whp - 200 whp with simple bolt on mods. Once you introduce engine management, there's a a bit more hp to squeeze out. Not much, but some.
I've seen anywhere from 170 whp - 200 whp with simple bolt on mods. Once you introduce engine management, there's a a bit more hp to squeeze out. Not much, but some.
06-15-2010, 07:04 PM
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I did not even think about the side ports, Ok so ya no way in hell you have any room to cut haha But if your only making 175 - 190hp Thats a bit less then the 220 they say it is making or what about he "High Power" they say makes 228 - 247hp? But I bet thats ture hp not rwhp to...
If I had the money, I would get a BHR rebuild, get it engine dynoed, then installed, and wheel dynoed, just to prove the loss %.
as for getting flamed I was on Rx7club for a week... and i will never go back to that stupid place. Atleast people here and at RotaryCarClub will talk and tell you whats up, not like club7 with nothing but little kids doing a TII swap and running to much boost and bitching about how crap the motor or car or what ever is... any way thanks guys.
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06-15-2010, 07:51 PM
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"I've seen anywhere from 170 whp - 200 whp with simple bolt on mods. Once you introduce engine management, there's a a bit more hp to squeeze out. Not much, but some."
Well that's good you can get that kind of hp with some simple bolt on's. I really want to try out the Rene, I like N/A and it seems to be the best starting point for hp.
"Yup. Renesis in a Miata is my dream. If Mazda doesn't do it for the upcoming planned RX-7 (Renesis2 in a MX-5 chassis is the current popular theory, bolstered by some internal info), then I will be trying to do it myself."
I don't know about a Miata... its to much of a girls car haha and there is this one guy who has one and he just kind of destroyed them for me haha. When you say Renesis2 are you talking about the 16x and the Rx-9 being based after the MX-5 chassis right? My dream right now is putting a street ported 6 port in my Rx7 vert... ya she is the fattest 7 but I still love her haha.
"No forum has a community like ours. None. We have our low points, our scum, our whiners, our frauds, and our ********, but as a whole, I wouldn't trade it for any other community out there."
Even if I don't have a 8 right now I still like being over here more. It seem like people are still trying to make the motor and car better. Unlike over at the club7 it seem like a bunch of old guy who act like they have tried and done all they can, its kind of sad. And they all bash on the Rene, I wish there was more done with it, instead of people saying but a 13bt or REW in its much ez'er or the always upsetting "put a ls1 in" nothing makes me more up set haha yes let me take the soul out of my car... ya thanks.
If i can I am going to shoot for a 6 port Rene this winter and hope I can get the porting after market ecu and what not all so i can do the swap the next winter... if all goes to plan.
Thanks guys for the info
Zakk
Well that's good you can get that kind of hp with some simple bolt on's. I really want to try out the Rene, I like N/A and it seems to be the best starting point for hp.
"Yup. Renesis in a Miata is my dream. If Mazda doesn't do it for the upcoming planned RX-7 (Renesis2 in a MX-5 chassis is the current popular theory, bolstered by some internal info), then I will be trying to do it myself."
I don't know about a Miata... its to much of a girls car haha and there is this one guy who has one and he just kind of destroyed them for me haha. When you say Renesis2 are you talking about the 16x and the Rx-9 being based after the MX-5 chassis right? My dream right now is putting a street ported 6 port in my Rx7 vert... ya she is the fattest 7 but I still love her haha.
"No forum has a community like ours. None. We have our low points, our scum, our whiners, our frauds, and our ********, but as a whole, I wouldn't trade it for any other community out there."
Even if I don't have a 8 right now I still like being over here more. It seem like people are still trying to make the motor and car better. Unlike over at the club7 it seem like a bunch of old guy who act like they have tried and done all they can, its kind of sad. And they all bash on the Rene, I wish there was more done with it, instead of people saying but a 13bt or REW in its much ez'er or the always upsetting "put a ls1 in" nothing makes me more up set haha yes let me take the soul out of my car... ya thanks.
If i can I am going to shoot for a 6 port Rene this winter and hope I can get the porting after market ecu and what not all so i can do the swap the next winter... if all goes to plan.
Thanks guys for the info
Zakk
06-15-2010, 08:03 PM
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You can use multi-quote BTW
Renesis2 I am referring to the Series2 Renesis. Still 13b-MSP, but Mazda updated it for the 2009+ RX-8s. The talk of putting it in an MX-5 chassis for the next RX-7 is completely reasonable, as there is basically no development costs taking a known engine and a known chassis and putting them together. It also would give a power to weight ratio roughly the same as a 300whp RX-8 (forced induction on the 8 of course). The 16X would likely be overkill in that chassis, so that is why they are discussing it for the RX-9, which would be bigger, like the 8. Note, I only say the 16X would be overkill, as it would put it on a power to weight ratio much closer to the supercar status, and drive the price way up-market, and is too far away from their core of light weight good handling cars with somewhat "under average" power. The Renesis is plenty to make it potent.
And there is a thread on the Miata forum about it being a girl's car, or gay. One of the best comments on the thread?
"The guys at work asked why I was driving a gay car when I first showed up with it. I told them, 'I'll take you for a ride. The first one to scream like a little girl gets to admit he is gay'. They never took me up on it."
And to me, this is a great looking car. Even has a few glimpses of FD in it...
I don't know about a Miata... its to much of a girls car haha and there is this one guy who has one and he just kind of destroyed them for me haha. When you say Renesis2 are you talking about the 16x and the Rx-9 being based after the MX-5 chassis right? My dream right now is putting a street ported 6 port in my Rx7 vert... ya she is the fattest 7 but I still love her haha.
And there is a thread on the Miata forum about it being a girl's car, or gay. One of the best comments on the thread?
"The guys at work asked why I was driving a gay car when I first showed up with it. I told them, 'I'll take you for a ride. The first one to scream like a little girl gets to admit he is gay'. They never took me up on it."
And to me, this is a great looking car. Even has a few glimpses of FD in it...
06-15-2010, 09:20 PM
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I am having problems staying loged on, its kicking me off every other page... so i tried to multi-quote but it would not me haha
You could not be more right about the new Rx7, I have been saying it for a bit. If Mazda wants to sell and get a awesome product out there then they need to look at there past and go with something like the FB. super light, small car a 180-190 hp motor in a 2,200lb car you will not need any more then that... hell just the idea of that makes me But we need the 16x put out, I want it! Mazda should at least let us have it as crate motor... for us who need that little bit bigger motor with our fat verts and family cars
I do like how the Miata dose echo the FD in a lot of ways (I even would go as far and say the head lights look better the the pop ups) but idk how to put it? How it sits or size or idk haha it just seems like a girls car... maybe they should make just a hard top and have it have a window like the other 7's maybe that look a bit better... idk... something just seems off about it.
You could not be more right about the new Rx7, I have been saying it for a bit. If Mazda wants to sell and get a awesome product out there then they need to look at there past and go with something like the FB. super light, small car a 180-190 hp motor in a 2,200lb car you will not need any more then that... hell just the idea of that makes me
But we need the 16x put out, I want it! Mazda should at least let us have it as crate motor... for us who need that little bit bigger motor with our fat verts and family cars I do like how the Miata dose echo the FD in a lot of ways (I even would go as far and say the head lights look better the the pop ups) but idk how to put it? How it sits or size or idk haha it just seems like a girls car... maybe they should make just a hard top and have it have a window like the other 7's maybe that look a bit better... idk... something just seems off about it.
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