ACS-TWIN-COOL Auxilliary Cooling System
08-27-2013, 03:01 AM
#30
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I have long been dreaming of my FI setup, want to start building next year. I understand heat is lethal to rotaries and turbo components, wondering if I could use one side of this as an aux oil cooler and one side as an aux radiator (married up to my already planned BHR performance radiator and a thermostat upgrade). Would that be beneficial, or does this thing not work? Sentiments seem pretty negative.
08-28-2013, 11:53 AM
#31
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So 2 months ago I was wondering the same situation, and I will just describe by my experience.
--Pre Turbo**
My oil/rad temps would normally be around the same of each other, on a hot day I was seeing both at about ~ 200, unless I kept moving then they would drop back down around ~185-190. Givin a hot day.
--Post Turbo**
I have just completed my turbo setup and reminded I do not have boost yet as I am still tuning, but logging I am now seeing the following on the temps. Oil remains roughly the same bout 200ish stop and go. However, my water temps have dropped significantly where they use to hover around the same of the oil temp. I am now seeing around ~190ish where oil is at 200ish, even further I have had the water temps at 175ish where the oil was 185ish; where to a point while driving they would hover around 3 degrees from one another 185 oil to 180-183 ish on the water.
I am just posting what I am seeing with my setup and feel it is much better like this. Yes you may be blowing hot air as it passes through the coolers to the rad, but what are you doing without it. Pulling air through the intercooler without assistance with less air flow, or with this setup assisting the movement of air so the fans can displace the hot air elsewhere faster. I do not have engineering research such as wind tunnel or thermal cameras as others may want to state "where is the hard evidence", I am only speaking of what I am seeing here on my setup thus far.
In sense I feel like its a computer, computers blow hot air around, but in the end, its the air flow that displaces it to outside the case.
I was looking at the dual setup of oil/rad and Scott told me it is possible, similar to what the automatic users do with trans/water. In the end I ended up doing just water and will look into just better oil coolers in the future.
--Pre Turbo**
My oil/rad temps would normally be around the same of each other, on a hot day I was seeing both at about ~ 200, unless I kept moving then they would drop back down around ~185-190. Givin a hot day.
--Post Turbo**
I have just completed my turbo setup and reminded I do not have boost yet as I am still tuning, but logging I am now seeing the following on the temps. Oil remains roughly the same bout 200ish stop and go. However, my water temps have dropped significantly where they use to hover around the same of the oil temp. I am now seeing around ~190ish where oil is at 200ish, even further I have had the water temps at 175ish where the oil was 185ish; where to a point while driving they would hover around 3 degrees from one another 185 oil to 180-183 ish on the water.
I am just posting what I am seeing with my setup and feel it is much better like this. Yes you may be blowing hot air as it passes through the coolers to the rad, but what are you doing without it. Pulling air through the intercooler without assistance with less air flow, or with this setup assisting the movement of air so the fans can displace the hot air elsewhere faster. I do not have engineering research such as wind tunnel or thermal cameras as others may want to state "where is the hard evidence", I am only speaking of what I am seeing here on my setup thus far.
In sense I feel like its a computer, computers blow hot air around, but in the end, its the air flow that displaces it to outside the case.
I was looking at the dual setup of oil/rad and Scott told me it is possible, similar to what the automatic users do with trans/water. In the end I ended up doing just water and will look into just better oil coolers in the future.
08-28-2013, 01:06 PM
#32
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So 2 months ago I was wondering the same situation, and I will just describe by my experience.
--Pre Turbo**
My oil/rad temps would normally be around the same of each other, on a hot day I was seeing both at about ~ 200, unless I kept moving then they would drop back down around ~185-190. Givin a hot day.
--Post Turbo**
I have just completed my turbo setup and reminded I do not have boost yet as I am still tuning, but logging I am now seeing the following on the temps. Oil remains roughly the same bout 200ish stop and go. However, my water temps have dropped significantly where they use to hover around the same of the oil temp. I am now seeing around ~190ish where oil is at 200ish, even further I have had the water temps at 175ish where the oil was 185ish; where to a point while driving they would hover around 3 degrees from one another 185 oil to 180-183 ish on the water.
I am just posting what I am seeing with my setup and feel it is much better like this. Yes you may be blowing hot air as it passes through the coolers to the rad, but what are you doing without it. Pulling air through the intercooler without assistance with less air flow, or with this setup assisting the movement of air so the fans can displace the hot air elsewhere faster. I do not have engineering research such as wind tunnel or thermal cameras as others may want to state "where is the hard evidence", I am only speaking of what I am seeing here on my setup thus far.
In sense I feel like its a computer, computers blow hot air around, but in the end, its the air flow that displaces it to outside the case.
I was looking at the dual setup of oil/rad and Scott told me it is possible, similar to what the automatic users do with trans/water. In the end I ended up doing just water and will look into just better oil coolers in the future.
--Pre Turbo**
My oil/rad temps would normally be around the same of each other, on a hot day I was seeing both at about ~ 200, unless I kept moving then they would drop back down around ~185-190. Givin a hot day.
--Post Turbo**
I have just completed my turbo setup and reminded I do not have boost yet as I am still tuning, but logging I am now seeing the following on the temps. Oil remains roughly the same bout 200ish stop and go. However, my water temps have dropped significantly where they use to hover around the same of the oil temp. I am now seeing around ~190ish where oil is at 200ish, even further I have had the water temps at 175ish where the oil was 185ish; where to a point while driving they would hover around 3 degrees from one another 185 oil to 180-183 ish on the water.
I am just posting what I am seeing with my setup and feel it is much better like this. Yes you may be blowing hot air as it passes through the coolers to the rad, but what are you doing without it. Pulling air through the intercooler without assistance with less air flow, or with this setup assisting the movement of air so the fans can displace the hot air elsewhere faster. I do not have engineering research such as wind tunnel or thermal cameras as others may want to state "where is the hard evidence", I am only speaking of what I am seeing here on my setup thus far.
In sense I feel like its a computer, computers blow hot air around, but in the end, its the air flow that displaces it to outside the case.
I was looking at the dual setup of oil/rad and Scott told me it is possible, similar to what the automatic users do with trans/water. In the end I ended up doing just water and will look into just better oil coolers in the future.
If all above is correct, did you notice an increase in the stabilization of temperature pre-turbo? Also still on stock thermostat?
08-28-2013, 04:00 PM
#33
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So If I understand this correctly you also have the same flat mount dual setup as OP and are using it inline with the existing radiator? Also you had it on before the turbo install and basically noticed no change in temps? (pre-turbo I mean).
If all above is correct, did you notice an increase in the stabilization of temperature pre-turbo? Also still on stock thermostat?
If all above is correct, did you notice an increase in the stabilization of temperature pre-turbo? Also still on stock thermostat?
The thermostat I am using is the REmedy thermostat.
The note I would like to make here though, even though I am currently not using boost since I am tuning, that the turbo still must expel heat as exhaust is is going through. So to see a drop in my temps, I feel it is working right for decreasing my temps.
Below is what I had pre turbo and post turbo.
REmedy Thermostat - PreTurbo - Post Turbo
REmedy High Flow Water Pump - PreTurbo - Post Turbo
RX8Performance Cooling Fan Control Kit - Post Turbo
RX8Performance ACS Twin - Post Turbo
Last edited by Mercatis; 08-28-2013 at 04:04 PM.
08-28-2013, 04:17 PM
#34
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Is your turbo water cooled?
This kit is a waste unless you are making significant power over stock and even then I doubt they work (as a secondary radiator system) and no one has provided any data showing that they do. It may work as an auto trans cooler but I still doubt it makes a huge difference. A properly working cooling SYSTEM should cool a NA RX-8 no problem. The fans on this kit are cheap crap (I have seen them first hand) and the only way these coolers will do anything is if they are seeing fresh air mounted as they were designed to be mounted.
With some real pusher fans it may make a difference but I'm not sure what that would do to the whole air flow situation in front of the radiatior if you have two powerful fans sucking air from in front of the radiator
But if you must then at least properly duct them like the Pettit kit.
This kit is a waste unless you are making significant power over stock and even then I doubt they work (as a secondary radiator system) and no one has provided any data showing that they do. It may work as an auto trans cooler but I still doubt it makes a huge difference. A properly working cooling SYSTEM should cool a NA RX-8 no problem. The fans on this kit are cheap crap (I have seen them first hand) and the only way these coolers will do anything is if they are seeing fresh air mounted as they were designed to be mounted.
With some real pusher fans it may make a difference but I'm not sure what that would do to the whole air flow situation in front of the radiatior if you have two powerful fans sucking air from in front of the radiator
But if you must then at least properly duct them like the Pettit kit.
08-28-2013, 05:08 PM
#35
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Yes my turbo is watercooled.
So, what makes them crap, when you look at relatively similar fans like what Mishimoto offers, they are very comparable. **Pretty much identical**
Well, I suppose my water gauge could be malfunctioning [...]
What exactly are you implying here? Cooling should really only be focused if you are making significant power? The stop and go traffic is a killer here and additional cooling will only help with the temps.
So, what makes them crap, when you look at relatively similar fans like what Mishimoto offers, they are very comparable. **Pretty much identical**
What exactly are you implying here? Cooling should really only be focused if you are making significant power? The stop and go traffic is a killer here and additional cooling will only help with the temps.
08-28-2013, 05:45 PM
#36
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Okay, well once you go into boost then you will see what happens to your water temps.
Mishimoto is crap too so that is not a good comparison. What I mean is that with this kit you don't even know how much CFM's the fans flow because they are cheap junk and not quality fans that come with documentation like what you would get from SPAL, FAL, etc. You also have no info on the coolers (like what you would get from Fluidyne, etc) so you have no idea what they are designed for or are capable of.
Your water gauge is probably working fine, where are you reading temps from?
My point is that the stock cooling system should not need to be improved upon if it is working correctly under the parameters that it was designed to work under (stock or close to stock). Lot's of people upgrade stuff and it's actually not actually an upgrade, they are just copying what someone else did. I am guilty of this but I will be the first to admit that it was/is stupid. Heck even my Mazmart pump and thermostat literally made no difference in terms of temps so it's hard for me to recommend it to anyone else.
And sorry but I have to laugh at you complaining about cooling in traffic
Try it in 100F+ weather just about everyday from June to September
Once everything gets heat soaked, all the coolers in the world won't help in traffic unless they are sporting some serious fans and even then, those fans will then be detrimental at speed. It's all a balance.
And for people who have cooling problems, they usually tend to attack the problems in the wrong way. I know I have in the past and if I could do things over again there would be a laundry list of things I would not do again
Mishimoto is crap too so that is not a good comparison. What I mean is that with this kit you don't even know how much CFM's the fans flow because they are cheap junk and not quality fans that come with documentation like what you would get from SPAL, FAL, etc. You also have no info on the coolers (like what you would get from Fluidyne, etc) so you have no idea what they are designed for or are capable of.
Your water gauge is probably working fine, where are you reading temps from?
My point is that the stock cooling system should not need to be improved upon if it is working correctly under the parameters that it was designed to work under (stock or close to stock). Lot's of people upgrade stuff and it's actually not actually an upgrade, they are just copying what someone else did. I am guilty of this but I will be the first to admit that it was/is stupid. Heck even my Mazmart pump and thermostat literally made no difference in terms of temps so it's hard for me to recommend it to anyone else.
And sorry but I have to laugh at you complaining about cooling in traffic
Try it in 100F+ weather just about everyday from June to September Once everything gets heat soaked, all the coolers in the world won't help in traffic unless they are sporting some serious fans and even then, those fans will then be detrimental at speed. It's all a balance.And for people who have cooling problems, they usually tend to attack the problems in the wrong way. I know I have in the past and if I could do things over again there would be a laundry list of things I would not do again
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 08-28-2013 at 06:00 PM.
08-28-2013, 07:19 PM
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Okay, well once you go into boost then you will see what happens to your water temps.
Mishimoto is crap too so that is not a good comparison. What I mean is that with this kit you don't even know how much CFM's the fans flow because they are cheap junk and not quality fans that come with documentation like what you would get from SPAL, FAL, etc. You also have no info on the coolers (like what you would get from Fluidyne, etc) so you have no idea what they are designed for or are capable of.
Your water gauge is probably working fine, where are you reading temps from?
My point is that the stock cooling system should not need to be improved upon if it is working correctly under the parameters that it was designed to work under (stock or close to stock). Lot's of people upgrade stuff and it's actually not actually an upgrade, they are just copying what someone else did. I am guilty of this but I will be the first to admit that it was/is stupid. Heck even my Mazmart pump and thermostat literally made no difference in terms of temps so it's hard for me to recommend it to anyone else.
And sorry but I have to laugh at you complaining about cooling in traffic Try it in 100F+ weather just about everyday from June to September Once everything gets heat soaked, all the coolers in the world won't help in traffic unless they are sporting some serious fans and even then, those fans will then be detrimental at speed. It's all a balance.
And for people who have cooling problems, they usually tend to attack the problems in the wrong way. I know I have in the past and if I could do things over again there would be a laundry list of things I would not do again
Mishimoto is crap too so that is not a good comparison. What I mean is that with this kit you don't even know how much CFM's the fans flow because they are cheap junk and not quality fans that come with documentation like what you would get from SPAL, FAL, etc. You also have no info on the coolers (like what you would get from Fluidyne, etc) so you have no idea what they are designed for or are capable of.
Your water gauge is probably working fine, where are you reading temps from?
My point is that the stock cooling system should not need to be improved upon if it is working correctly under the parameters that it was designed to work under (stock or close to stock). Lot's of people upgrade stuff and it's actually not actually an upgrade, they are just copying what someone else did. I am guilty of this but I will be the first to admit that it was/is stupid. Heck even my Mazmart pump and thermostat literally made no difference in terms of temps so it's hard for me to recommend it to anyone else.
And sorry but I have to laugh at you complaining about cooling in traffic
Try it in 100F+ weather just about everyday from June to September Once everything gets heat soaked, all the coolers in the world won't help in traffic unless they are sporting some serious fans and even then, those fans will then be detrimental at speed. It's all a balance.And for people who have cooling problems, they usually tend to attack the problems in the wrong way. I know I have in the past and if I could do things over again there would be a laundry list of things I would not do again
08-28-2013, 08:09 PM
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I am trying to make conceptual meaning to this.
Don't follow the lead?
In the end, the dog was right?
We are all walking blindly on this, don't fall in someone else's mistake?
Don't follow the lead?
In the end, the dog was right?
We are all walking blindly on this, don't fall in someone else's mistake?
08-29-2013, 08:01 PM
#44
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Such as? I'd like hear what your honest opinion of this kit is.
I admit that my concerns about the Auto trans pumping the extra fluid may have been incorrect so it may add some additional cooling for an auto trans set up (any additional cooling has to be good) but it is still far from ideal if someone is really looking to add a cooler to their auto setup. And I still don't see how this product will do anything to further lower coolant temps if it is installed as shipped. But I'd love to hear your input on it.
I admit that my concerns about the Auto trans pumping the extra fluid may have been incorrect so it may add some additional cooling for an auto trans set up (any additional cooling has to be good) but it is still far from ideal if someone is really looking to add a cooler to their auto setup. And I still don't see how this product will do anything to further lower coolant temps if it is installed as shipped. But I'd love to hear your input on it.
08-30-2013, 09:59 AM
#45
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My opinion? This could work, but having a flat straight down design is stupid and more work on the fans (which if they aren't that powerful) won't do much sucking anyways.
My solution? Put them on a slight angle (or vertical) back in the tray and have a duck that will force air to flow UPWARDS INTO THEM.
Solution solved. Fans can stay (I would probably turn them off while driving since they would be useless then) and have them kick on while stationary.
My solution? Put them on a slight angle (or vertical) back in the tray and have a duck that will force air to flow UPWARDS INTO THEM.
Solution solved. Fans can stay (I would probably turn them off while driving since they would be useless then) and have them kick on while stationary.
08-30-2013, 10:30 AM
#47
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I don't see any reference to pressure differentials in airflow.
To cool anything, you want high pressure on one side and low pressure on the other, with the only route between them existing through the exchanger. All fans do is decrease or increase the air pressure on one side (pull vs push respectively).
I would never install this tray for the simple reason that it is providing a rather large alternate route for the air to go other than through the radiator. This HAS to kill radiator efficiency, even if it's a slight net gain. Better to just improve airflow.
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
To cool anything, you want high pressure on one side and low pressure on the other, with the only route between them existing through the exchanger. All fans do is decrease or increase the air pressure on one side (pull vs push respectively).
I would never install this tray for the simple reason that it is providing a rather large alternate route for the air to go other than through the radiator. This HAS to kill radiator efficiency, even if it's a slight net gain. Better to just improve airflow.
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
09-04-2013, 11:19 PM
#48
you can make any number of arguments, like flowing down and out creates front end lift at speed or that pulling air up and in sends heated air to the radiator and intake, or that you go out of your way to oppose anything Scott fabricates regardless of whether it actually functions. Which is generally the case since most have no idea about how it works in reality. Like assuming there is never enough flow to the radiator such that flow into the bumper opening could never stall out and flow around it at the same or higher mass rate than it goes in ...
try leaving a few screws/rivets out and see what happens to the OE undertray at speed ... you rarely ever "see" a pressure differential, which is why it must be measured ...
.
try leaving a few screws/rivets out and see what happens to the OE undertray at speed ... you rarely ever "see" a pressure differential, which is why it must be measured ...
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 09-05-2013 at 08:33 PM. Reason: too harsh asusual
02-04-2014, 08:45 AM
#50
you can make any number of arguments, like flowing down and out creates front end lift at speed or that pulling air up and in sends heated air to the radiator and intake, or that you go out of your way to oppose anything Scott fabricates regardless of whether it actually functions. Which is generally the case since most have no idea about how it works in reality. Like assuming there is never enough flow to the radiator such that flow into the bumper opening could never stall out and flow around it at the same or higher mass rate than it goes in ...
try leaving a few screws/rivets out and see what happens to the OE undertray at speed ... you rarely ever "see" a pressure differential, which is why it must be measured ...
.
try leaving a few screws/rivets out and see what happens to the OE undertray at speed ... you rarely ever "see" a pressure differential, which is why it must be measured ...
.
But seriously why do some of the other peeps here (haters) have to fill up a thread with arguments? So painful sometimes.
Hey I got lazy once with the clips, on my oe tray and lets just say after some high speed runs 200-240km I DID lose my tray or at least it ended up mashed under the tyres. Oops.
But seriously it may be worth a try for either oil cooling or liquid to air intercooler for the 20b turbo conversion I'm doing? Or maybe just buy the undertray without the fans and mount some HD fans and cooler?
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