track problems...?!?
09-23-2006, 01:54 PM
#26
Smooth Criminal
Originally Posted by Razz1
It's the DSC switch. Happens all the time if you don't hold it long enough.
Originally Posted by yiksing
Hold that switch for 7+ seconds.
There have been a lot of RX-8 Owners that track their car have this fuel starvation issues, the pros run two fuel pumps, and dannobre has mentioned that a second helped him out. I would look into the fuel pump. Too bad it is hard to tell your delaership that in High G left hand turns on teh track your fuel cuts out...they might look at you funny.
09-23-2006, 02:09 PM
#27
For about $150 and a few minutes..you can replace your pump and see if the problem goes away......for $600 you can get Scott's fuel mod...with a high flow pump...etc etc and have no problems at all.
For my money...on a NA car...I'd replace the fuel pump...and see if it goes away. On a turbo car I'd get Scott's pump....
Or if the dealer is good...replace it, and if the problem goes away get them to pay for it
The pump will pass the low speed pressure tests that the dealer does....even if it is bad. So unless they test it at high flow..WOT condition...it will pass
Trust me..it was the problem in my car...and a few of the race cars that have to use the stock fuel system unmodified....
For my money...on a NA car...I'd replace the fuel pump...and see if it goes away. On a turbo car I'd get Scott's pump....
Or if the dealer is good...replace it, and if the problem goes away get them to pay for it
The pump will pass the low speed pressure tests that the dealer does....even if it is bad. So unless they test it at high flow..WOT condition...it will pass
Trust me..it was the problem in my car...and a few of the race cars that have to use the stock fuel system unmodified....
09-23-2006, 08:21 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by olddragger
Blue and Red--Yea RA in march are so--it would be a blast if ya'll came back. Have we gotten a lot of stuff to show yall. How about a 260hp at the flywheel engine? NA of course , no porting--what one?
olddragger
olddragger
09-25-2006, 09:13 AM
#35
Smooth Criminal
if you take your back seats out, and put down a blanket of some sort, they will fit int he back seat, I put 4 245's on stock wheels back there with ease.
09-25-2006, 10:12 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by Red Devil
I could be down for going down to Atlanta in March. Will just need to rent a trailer for my summer tires.
times 2
09-25-2006, 10:59 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by BlueRenesis82
personally I wouldnt run the car so light on gas that the light comes on, the gas cools and lubes the pump too, so running the pump out of gas can't be good for the actual pump itself
Also, It's not like being on a track puts a larger load on the fuel pump. By this logic, you shouldn't run less than 1/2 a tank EVER, since you don't have proper cooling on the street if this is true.
09-25-2006, 11:14 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by dsmdriver
Also, It's not like being on a track puts a larger load on the fuel pump. By this logic, you shouldn't run less than 1/2 a tank EVER, since you don't have proper cooling on the street if this is true.
10-02-2006, 01:28 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by contender
it's not street drfting actually i dont like drifting as a "sport" i find it stupid
what i meant to say is that it didn't happen when you took off a turn or any stop and you loose traction(drift), it didn't even happen to me one day that we took the car to the dragstrip...
what i meant to say is that it didn't happen when you took off a turn or any stop and you loose traction(drift), it didn't even happen to me one day that we took the car to the dragstrip...
its F'in difficult, actually. Have you been to a real professional drifting event, have you tried it? I have..I'll stick to club racing, drifitng is not simple, in some ways I would consider it more difficult than road racing, because Im expected to be in specific points measured in inches..while in control. Drifting requires you to be relative to specific points, and other cars..within inches, completely out of tactile control.
But ya..no foul in calling what happens around a corner "drifting"..its a common misuse of the term.
10-02-2006, 09:30 AM
#41
I had SEVERE fuel starvation problems this w/e at Roebling. Even with a full tank of gas. It was on one turn only. we call it turn 5-6. its a double apex left hander--pretty high g's for a short period.
Strange thing is that on another higher speed, higher g, longer left handed sweeper--i had NO problems.
I tried not double apexing the turn--take it slower--lower rpm/higher gear--make a sweeper out of it etc and nothing mattered. I f i used anything over just a slight touch on the petal the car would literally die for approx 50 yds. i even warned all the others on the track about this -just in case they where close to me in that turn.
Guess I will be replacing the stock pump for the 1st step in problem solving this.
olddragger
Strange thing is that on another higher speed, higher g, longer left handed sweeper--i had NO problems.
I tried not double apexing the turn--take it slower--lower rpm/higher gear--make a sweeper out of it etc and nothing mattered. I f i used anything over just a slight touch on the petal the car would literally die for approx 50 yds. i even warned all the others on the track about this -just in case they where close to me in that turn.
Guess I will be replacing the stock pump for the 1st step in problem solving this.
olddragger
10-02-2006, 09:39 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by olddragger
I had SEVERE fuel starvation problems this w/e at Roebling. Even with a full tank of gas. It was on one turn only. we call it turn 5-6. its a double apex left hander--pretty high g's for a short period.
Strange thing is that on another higher speed, higher g, longer left handed sweeper--i had NO problems.
I tried not double apexing the turn--take it slower--lower rpm/higher gear--make a sweeper out of it etc and nothing mattered. I f i used anything over just a slight touch on the petal the car would literally die for approx 50 yds. i even warned all the others on the track about this -just in case they where close to me in that turn.
Guess I will be replacing the stock pump for the 1st step in problem solving this.
olddragger
Strange thing is that on another higher speed, higher g, longer left handed sweeper--i had NO problems.
I tried not double apexing the turn--take it slower--lower rpm/higher gear--make a sweeper out of it etc and nothing mattered. I f i used anything over just a slight touch on the petal the car would literally die for approx 50 yds. i even warned all the others on the track about this -just in case they where close to me in that turn.
Guess I will be replacing the stock pump for the 1st step in problem solving this.
olddragger
10-02-2006, 09:40 AM
#43
Originally Posted by dsmdriver
Also, It's not like being on a track puts a larger load on the fuel pump. By this logic, you shouldn't run less than 1/2 a tank EVER, since you don't have proper cooling on the street if this is true.
Come ON wake up!
10-02-2006, 01:27 PM
#44
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Guys, the fuel pump doesn't just pump fuel the engine uses.
Most cars use a return fuel system. The pump runs full bore all the time and pumps as much fuel as it can. Up near the engine there is a fuel regulator. It regulates the pressure to be manifold + X PSI. It returns as much fuel as it needs to keep the pressure here. As the injectors use more fuel, the fuel pressure regulator just returns a little less fuel. Even at WOT the majority of fuel is being circulated.
Some other cars don't use the return line, they just have a regulator like the one on an air compressor- the pressure on one side is unregulated, the pressure on the other is regulated. Once again, the fuel pump runs at full bore all the time. It's keeping the un-regulated side at 30-60 PSI all the time. Keeping fuel at 50 PSI isn't free.
There is some very small variation depending on how much fuel you are using, but the actual load on the pump may actually go down if it moves into a more efficent region of operation as the flow changes.
If you know something about the RX-8's fuel system that I don't then let me know, but every car I have owned before this runs the pump at battery voltage all the time and thus the actual fuel flow into the engine makes almost no difference to the pump. Only a smart pump that actually knows how much fuel the engine needs could change its load on the track. Does the RX-8 ECU vary the power to the pump?
Most cars use a return fuel system. The pump runs full bore all the time and pumps as much fuel as it can. Up near the engine there is a fuel regulator. It regulates the pressure to be manifold + X PSI. It returns as much fuel as it needs to keep the pressure here. As the injectors use more fuel, the fuel pressure regulator just returns a little less fuel. Even at WOT the majority of fuel is being circulated.
Some other cars don't use the return line, they just have a regulator like the one on an air compressor- the pressure on one side is unregulated, the pressure on the other is regulated. Once again, the fuel pump runs at full bore all the time. It's keeping the un-regulated side at 30-60 PSI all the time. Keeping fuel at 50 PSI isn't free.
There is some very small variation depending on how much fuel you are using, but the actual load on the pump may actually go down if it moves into a more efficent region of operation as the flow changes.
If you know something about the RX-8's fuel system that I don't then let me know, but every car I have owned before this runs the pump at battery voltage all the time and thus the actual fuel flow into the engine makes almost no difference to the pump. Only a smart pump that actually knows how much fuel the engine needs could change its load on the track. Does the RX-8 ECU vary the power to the pump?
Last edited by dsmdriver; 10-02-2006 at 01:29 PM.
10-02-2006, 06:47 PM
#45
RX-8 has a variable speed pump. It has an inline resistor that runs the pump at two different speeds, depending on ECU parameters.
The "fuel pump" we are talking about running out of fuel is the whole assembly...ie pump and regulator. If the pump is not providing enough flow to keep the fuel system at the desired pressure it "runs out of fuel"
The way the RX-8 fuel tank and pump is designed will allow fuel starvation due to fuel being pushed into the passenger tank faster than the return siphon can return it when high fuel load drops the regulator output. This is why it craps out at high flow/high situations.
If your pump output is poor...it may test OK at the dealer. But it won't have enough output to run the return siphon under high fuel loads.. This is what happened to me.
The "fuel pump" we are talking about running out of fuel is the whole assembly...ie pump and regulator. If the pump is not providing enough flow to keep the fuel system at the desired pressure it "runs out of fuel"
The way the RX-8 fuel tank and pump is designed will allow fuel starvation due to fuel being pushed into the passenger tank faster than the return siphon can return it when high fuel load drops the regulator output. This is why it craps out at high flow/high situations.
If your pump output is poor...it may test OK at the dealer. But it won't have enough output to run the return siphon under high fuel loads.. This is what happened to me.
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