The STX thread!
11-29-2011, 12:05 PM
#2201
Thanks. I'm on the fence about delrin. I know it's the best choice competitively speaking, but my car is driven daily, and my drives to Packwood are 2.5 to 3 hours long. Then there is the drive to nats. Not sure I want to endure the NVH created by delrin for such extended periods.
Poly, while not optimal, is still way better than worn-out OEM bushings (at least for single pivot bushings, like the front upper control arms). At least in my experience.
Poly, while not optimal, is still way better than worn-out OEM bushings (at least for single pivot bushings, like the front upper control arms). At least in my experience.
11-29-2011, 01:03 PM
#2203
How so? It seems like having incrementally firmer bushings would be a step in the right direction, for a car that sees higher sustained loading than it did in stock trim. I understand the issues around multi-axis bushings, but for those that pivot on a single axis, why not make the move to poly for a competitively driven car?
11-29-2011, 01:42 PM
#2207
Do you drive the car on the street much? If so, what is the ride quality like? I expect some degradation, and can live with that, but have visions of a very buzzy, noisy car.
11-29-2011, 02:09 PM
#2210
From their website.
-Front Lower Control Arm Bushings are precision machined and molded using UHMW Polyethylene.
-Front Upper Control Arm Bushings are precision machined and molded using UHMW Polyethylene.
From what I understand, UHMW (Ultra-high-molecular-weight) and Delrin are very similar. Delrin is easier to Machine but UHMW is used in moldings. UHMW has the highest impact strength of any thermoplastic presently made. It is "highly resistant to corrosive chemicals (with exception of oxidizing acids); has extremely low moisture absorption and a very low coefficient of friction; is self-lubricating; and is highly resistant to abrasion, in some forms being 15 times more resistant to abrasion than carbon steel."
-Front Lower Control Arm Bushings are precision machined and molded using UHMW Polyethylene.
-Front Upper Control Arm Bushings are precision machined and molded using UHMW Polyethylene.
From what I understand, UHMW (Ultra-high-molecular-weight) and Delrin are very similar. Delrin is easier to Machine but UHMW is used in moldings. UHMW has the highest impact strength of any thermoplastic presently made. It is "highly resistant to corrosive chemicals (with exception of oxidizing acids); has extremely low moisture absorption and a very low coefficient of friction; is self-lubricating; and is highly resistant to abrasion, in some forms being 15 times more resistant to abrasion than carbon steel."
11-29-2011, 03:04 PM
#2211
Umm yeah, materials was my BSME minor so I am familiar with UHMW and most other polymers. I just forgot that they took the cheaper route, hence the lower price. IMO Delrin is a better suspension bushing choice as it has much more resistance to cold flow/creep, which is an even bigger problem with polyurethane. Which is why a spherical bearing would pound the seat loose quickly if the carrier was UHMW. Somebody had a set of the lower DE bushings FS on the forum a while back so I asked him about the design. He told me it was identical to SpeedSource/Motorsport design with a spherical heim bearing in an aluminum carrier.
The OE bushing design has minimal deflection. The reason to use the delrin upper arm setup is that it greatly reduces rotational friction/resistance.
The OE bushing design has minimal deflection. The reason to use the delrin upper arm setup is that it greatly reduces rotational friction/resistance.
11-29-2011, 03:35 PM
#2212
Umm yeah, materials was my BSME minor so I am familiar with UHMW and most other polymers. I just forgot that they took the cheaper route, hence the lower price. IMO Delrin is a better suspension bushing choice as it has much more resistance to cold flow/creep, which is an even bigger problem with polyurethane. Which is why a spherical bearing would pound the seat loose quickly if the carrier was UHMW. Somebody had a set of the lower DE bushings FS on the forum a while back so I asked him about the design. He told me it was identical to SpeedSource/Motorsport design with a spherical heim bearing in an aluminum carrier.
The OE bushing design has minimal deflection. The reason to use the delrin upper arm setup is that it greatly reduces rotational friction/resistance.
The OE bushing design has minimal deflection. The reason to use the delrin upper arm setup is that it greatly reduces rotational friction/resistance.
From what I have read, UHMW can last longer but extreme cold is an issue.
Mazdatrix sells both the MS and the DE and describes them the same way.
For custom Delrin bushing (rear toe arm) I found this place. They only need a drawing or a new bushing to work from.
11-29-2011, 04:37 PM
#2213
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George, I drive it on the street from time to time and to be honest, I really didn't notice a difference too much. It's not something that literally screams out "HI I'M NOTICEABLE" to you to be honest, so I wouldn't worry about it.
11-29-2011, 05:29 PM
#2214
I did speak with someone who had them in hand. That doesn't mean I'm right because I only took his word for what he told me, but it certainly means I did more than make assumptions ...
based on my own direct experience with UHMW material for bushings I don't see how it will hold a spherical bearing tight in that location for very long. Again, I could be wrong, but that is again my direct experience and not an assumption.
11-29-2011, 05:39 PM
#2215
I have had both the Speedsource and Drop Engineering upper control arm and LCA camber bushing assemblies ( got some DE ones on E-bay in a stink bid for really cheap 
)
The Speedsource ones are machined a bit cleaner...but the materials seem identical. The LCA units are both spherical bearing pivots with aluminum carriers like Team said.
)The Speedsource ones are machined a bit cleaner...but the materials seem identical. The LCA units are both spherical bearing pivots with aluminum carriers like Team said.
11-29-2011, 05:55 PM
#2216
If I decide to make the purchase I will make the call. I am not making an assumption, I mearly stated a fact that they described the products the same way. Information provided on the web is always supect and with this one it is even more suspect because it is described several different ways.
11-30-2011, 03:19 AM
#2217
I quite don't get all this bushing bashing for polyurethane products. Could you enlighten me?
I have a good experience with polyurethane bushings and they seem to last well. The only thing that I didn't follow in the usual instructions was the greasing part. I didn't use the "specific" bushing grease but copper grease instead.
I didn't cover many miles with them in the rx8 (approx. 8 hours) but in the proper racecar they tend to last more than one season of racing.
Any info would be much appreciated
G
I have a good experience with polyurethane bushings and they seem to last well. The only thing that I didn't follow in the usual instructions was the greasing part. I didn't use the "specific" bushing grease but copper grease instead.
I didn't cover many miles with them in the rx8 (approx. 8 hours) but in the proper racecar they tend to last more than one season of racing.
Any info would be much appreciated
G
11-30-2011, 03:27 AM
#2218
if polyurethane is a step down compared to stock is what I've been hearing, can someone explain this to me I always thought factory for the majority of cars were rubber,and I know for a fact that polyurethane is a lot more durable then rubber so I'm having a hard time believing stock bushings are better then Polyurethane, I've been searching and I found a place with poly delrin combo. http://www.coorstek.com/products/pla...Fe1dtgodpzdjHg
http://www.cheperformance.com/Tech/C...n_Bushing.html
http://www.cheperformance.com/Tech/C...n_Bushing.html
11-30-2011, 11:57 AM
#2219
and I didn't bash anything --> IMO the only way to improve on the OE bushings is with a solid type of bushing whether it be a heim bearing, delrin, UHMW, etc.
I would rather everything be heim bearings, but the STX rules don't allow this
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 11-30-2011 at 12:01 PM.
11-30-2011, 12:18 PM
#2220
start with your assumptions and work from there
and I didn't bash anything --> IMO the only way to improve on the OE bushings is with a solid type of bushing whether it be a heim bearing, delrin, UHMW, etc.
I would rather everything be heim bearings, but the STX rules don't allow this
.
and I didn't bash anything --> IMO the only way to improve on the OE bushings is with a solid type of bushing whether it be a heim bearing, delrin, UHMW, etc.
I would rather everything be heim bearings, but the STX rules don't allow this
.
Delrin would be awesome but possibly too harsh above kerbs with my current shock setup.
Thanks again anyway, this is one of the few threads worth reading.
12-01-2011, 01:18 AM
#2221
crap, I was informed that these specific wheels were discontinued. The perfect fitment, only 17.2# each, and probably near impossible to find a used set ... oh well. SSR might as well folded, Tanabe has pretty much gutted them to nothing special
12-01-2011, 10:26 PM
#2225
^Please read through this thread before asking redundant questions...Or we will probably throw flaming ***** at you...
On another note I want EVERYONE to tune in to GoRacingTV.com tomorrow at 1pm EST. The Evo school is at PRI and they are announcing information about the new East Coast National Tour!.
They want all the viewers they can get to show interest. Tell your wife, tell your husband, tell your kids, tell your neighbors!
On another note I want EVERYONE to tune in to GoRacingTV.com tomorrow at 1pm EST. The Evo school is at PRI and they are announcing information about the new East Coast National Tour!.
They want all the viewers they can get to show interest. Tell your wife, tell your husband, tell your kids, tell your neighbors!