Was that you last week in NJ meadowlands?

Cool car, that was my first event. I only Apon out once lol.

I cant wait to go back and fix my shitty alignment thats practically a drift alignment..and put on tires that are better than half worn out all seasons.

 

I feel sorry for the C stock car owners . guess you can forget about the MSR and Solstice moving out any time soon

STX is now the star class for St Louis; 11 out of 59 current entrants ...

 

Yes that was me.


Simmons

 

I would love to make it my first national event and 12/60 for stx but my local group is running the same weekend. Good luck to all, hopefully you tear it up.

 

Shot with the new Hero3!

 

I've also been thinking about the BRZ, but wouldn't the RX-8 have an advantage over a BRZ in STX? More power/weight and more rubber/weight?

 

Mike, do you think the video quality is any better than the Hero2? It's tough to notice any drastic improvement in the video you posted, but that could be due to YouTube's video compression.

 

I do, although i'm only filming in 1080 @60 right now. I'm still working on getting the 1440 @48, and 2.7k @30 to sync up properly with the video/audio, once I figure that out the video quality will be even better.

One thing that was improved alot was the sound quality.

 

New info is out. Besides the new index, looks like E85 is out for ST classes. Hurts the twins a lot.

 

it only went out as an ST proposal

I wrote a letter expressing confusion about it going out as a proposal. It should be a simple SEB clarification for Stock as only if specified by the manufacturer; a standard Stock class position, which would then apply to ST as well.

 

Fuels are covered separately under section 3.6, and the current wording specifcally lists E85 as allowed for Stock and ST. IIRC up until a couple years ago the wording was more ambiguous (as it is currently for 100 octane unleaded).

 

Except this doesn't necessarily trump 13.0 Stock allowances. It is perfectly legitimate and inline with past rulings for the SEB to *clarify* that ethanol content in fuel only applies when allowed specifically by the manufacturer for non-racing purposes. Just like the Stock rules allow for alternate coils, but not to chop up and modify the OE electrical harness, etc. The reality is that ethanol content has a much larger influence on power output than octane level. It also is more of a have vs have not situation on the OE fuel system capacity to handle the higher ethanol content. Members have taken it upon themselves to assume they could run whatever street fuel they could get away with in Stock and ST based on that revision, but it doesn't really state that this is what was intended. Rather, E85 came to be a new DOT approved fuel and there were flex fuel vehicles being produced that used E85, so it had to be added to the listing for that reason alone.

This is what the rule actually states:

It clearly doesn't specifically provide allowance to use any street fuel you want in Stock or ST, but rather defines what street fuel is for use in those classes. A clarification based on manufacturer fuel allowances in 13 Stock is perfectly valid. If they don't say you can exceed Exx or use Exx in a specific vehicle then legally in S or ST then you can't. It's really that simple.


.

 

Team,
I don't disagree with you in concept, but the rulebook wording was clearly changed specifically to address ST competitors who were already using E85. The only factory fuel flex vehicles at Nationals were pulling a trailer!

 

all that did is confirm that E85 is a street legal fuel, the application allowance of it can still be defined in 13.0 Stock if they so choose

 

I suppose technically they could issue a "clarification" on this to bypass the member input, but my point is that this would be a reversal of a previous position (not the first time, I know) which is why I think they put it out there for comment.

Also, said clarification would require a new rule change to Section 15 (Street Prepared) to allow non-factory authorized fuels there (e.g. leaded race gas) in order to be consistent.

 

Its not a bypass. Its a Stock issue that has an impact in ST, nobody thought much about it before submitting it as an ST proposal which seems to be standard these days. You can file a protest in ST about because IMO theres nothing in rules that specifically says you can do it and its pretty much guaranteed that the manufacturer doesn't allow it for most of the cars we're talking about.

I disagree about SP. Re-read 3.6. The wording for SP is different than the Stock/ST wording.

In fact, you just gave me the idea to submit a second letter to the SEB/SAC asking for a Stock class clarification on ethanol level in fuels.
.

 

Sorry, you'll have to spoon feed me on this. 3.6A says S/ST can use E85. 3.6B says in addition SP/SM/P can use any grade of gasoline. 3.6C says any category can use propane or CNG. None of the category specific sections say anything about fuel, so I'm not seeing the distinction. The way I read the rules, as long as you don't have to make other unallowed mods to accomodate it, 3.6 defines what you can put in the tank.

 

I can appreciate your position. Wordsmithing requires a very technical understanding of language use.

3.6.A simply states what fuel Stock and ST will use, and then defines what that fuel is. The Stock argument is that you can't use any ethanol content above what the manufacturer specifies. Most any manufacturer now and within the last decade+ very specifically states in the OM not to use fuel greater than E10 unless it is a flex fuel vehicle. It is a non-allowance for race fuel, not an allowance to do whatever you want.

3.6.B difference for SP is the word "may". The word "may" defines an allowance to use any of those fuels, plus use any diesel fuel or type of gasoline. Methanol whether 100% or a blend, E100, or any other hydrid fuel is not allowed.

3.6 FUEL
A. Stock and Street Touring category vehicles will use service station
pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is “Federally approved
for use on public highways.” This includes the pump fuel
known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which are available
at service station pumps.

B. In addition to fuels which are allowed by 3.6.A, Street Prepared,
Street Modified, Prepared, and Modified category vehicles may use
diesel fuel or any grade of gasoline. Gasolines consist entirely of
hydrocarbon compounds. Gasoline may contain antioxidants, metal
deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, and lead alkyl compounds such as
tetraethyl lead. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives are prohibited
except for those originally present in service station pump fuel.
Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing

 

Got it. So ST will use E85, and SP may use leaded race fuel. Obviously I've mistaken blue berries for blueberries!

 

IMO 3.6.A is a dis-allowance for race fuel, not an allowance to do as you please with street legal fuel. The defining moment will be whether it is clarified as such in Stock 13.0.

In the case of the RX-8, and as I've suggested here in the past, is that the OE tune is so rich that you could use ethanol content to "effectively tune" the AFR for more power. I would say E35 or so on most RX8s. Since tuning the actual ECU is not permitted in Stock the current rulemakers likely never considered this before. It doesn't get by the craftiest of competitors though ....

 

[quote=TeamRX8;4389541]The defining moment will be whether it is clarified as such in Stock 13.0.
....QUOTE]

I hope you are right, but I don't expect this.

In my letter!

 

Any word on the e85 yet?




Simmons

 

The STAC has reviewed it, that is all I know. If the SEB doesn't see it as a Stock Class clarification issue then nothing likely can or will happen this year.


.

 

Hopefully something happens to clarify or fix the rule. I'm sure most feel similar with not wanting to deal with mixing E85 to maximize power.

 

everyone except BRZ and FRS owners

my bigger issue at the moment is getting my shocks straightened out. Apparently another front shock blew the shaft seal at Gateway and the rear shocks, which were rebuilt just prior are alsoshowing excessive oil on the shaft. Just sent them out to Koni NA today. Hoping they can figure out what Truechoice has repeatedly been unable to resolve.