SouthFL

No laps times doesn't mean drive slow.

Spin9k

I regularly check Roundel club racing lap times at the tracks I frequent, and find I'm often only seconds off their pace. Even though Club Racing and HPDE3/4 are not technically the same, the speeds and therefore the braking needed ARE similar. Good HPDE drivers can use and take advantage of the properties of similar pads as club racers, without doubt.

Red Devil

Agreed. I was a passenger in a RX-8 at Road America, on HP+ pads, when he cooked them going down the hill into turn 5. Not very pleasant, to say the least.

I've never driven on HP+, but after that incident I was convinced a higher temp rating is an absolute for any RX-8 driver that has at least a few HPDE sessions under their belt.

Spin9k

I guess I never over drove the HP+s I had like you're speaking of. The experience I had was that I felt less confident of braking with HP+ than with OEM pads, and they definitely lacked the pedal response I wanted.

When I push the brakes I want an "we're stopping right now" grinding halt initial friction, followed by a wide platform of fade-free friction I can modulate.

With the HP+s the pedal didn't inspire initially and failed to improve over time. In the final cut, they were probably pretty consistent with the OEM pads +/-, but there was that 'feeling' of expecting something like "Wow! That's more like it." Fortunately, I have that now.

Red Devil

Hmmm...think you're referring to a higher friction coefficient vs. me referring to a higher temp operating range...

Spin9k

yea, looking like a pretty decent pad, huh? Not enough friction, can't take higher temps. We certainly got a winner there.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Don't get me wrong...the HP+ is a good pad if you aren't really aggressive. I have a couple of friends that use them and have no problems.

As for how hard the HPDE crowd pushes....I run times are as fast as race times...except for qualifying...the crowd tends to slow things down a notch!

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

I used Carbotechs religiously on my Corvette, and loved them. I bought a set of Panther+ for the RX-8 when we got it, one event and the material came off the backing plate. I sent it back and they just glued it back together rather than replacing them, after it fell apart during the bedding process I threw them away. Luckily the OE pads are perfect for autox. I won some Hawk pads at ProSolo's so I got a set of Blues for track days, they work great. It only takes like 5 minutes per corner to change the pads, since I have the wheels off to put on race tires anyway, so I do a little extra work but I think it is worth it.

CodingParadox

I got a set of carbotechs for my RX-8 a track day. They were utterly perfect in every way. Never even a hint of fade (combined with a good fluid).

gojackets

Which Carbotech compound did you use? Same front and rear?

gojackets

Similar question for you - did you use Blues on both front and rear at the track? Would you recommend same pad material or more aggressive in front vs. rear?

CodingParadox

Call carbotech and use what they recommend. I believe it's XP10 front and XP8 rear, which is the same compound mix that I use on the miata. I could out-brake anyone on the track.

mwood

I'd imagine that is what they'd recommend...it's kind of their standard mix for a street car being tracked, as far as I know. But, I did run just XP8 at one time, f/r, and it was a much friendlier street combo. The XP10 needs more heat before it starts to really work, which can be tough on rotors.

CodingParadox

Yeah. I definitely just used them for the track day. They work fine on the street, but more initial pressure is required until they warm up. But it only takes about 2/3s of a lap for them to get to full working temperature on Pacific or PIR. I really really like the carbotechs. I use them on my Alltrac and Miata as well.

gojackets

See post from earlier in this thread with response from Carbotech: XP10 front, XP8 rear is what they recommend.

dothackRAVE

Is Carbotech useable on the streets? I'm not talking about whether or not it works (it should), but whether it's a sustainable useage thing (i.e., not something you have to replace every few months because it wears out so fast on you).

SouthFL

^
The concept with Carbotech is that you can swap in the track pad for track days and and swap in the Bobcat (street) pad for daily driving and both pads have compatible compound- so nothing funky happens with the compound deposit on the rotor.

Red Devil

Yep...I use bobcats front and rear on the street, and XP8s on the track...never had any issues with deposits as a result.

dothackRAVE

How long do you guys take for a pad swap? Last I did it, it took 8 guys and 4 hours because the cube tool kept slipping out of the rear calipers.

Red Devil

Once the tires are removed, a few minutes at each corner if working fast...and yeah, everyonce in a while the rear caliper tool is a bit of a pain...I also usually use that time to spot check that everything is in place and locked down - endlinks/sways, steering rack, caliper brackets, coilover, etc...

Spin9k

You guys must be masochists with all your talk of changing pads on the fly, at the track, mismatched pad compounds, mismatched rotor/pads (a concept I've never hear of ThecdnRX8 - maybe you didn't bed them in? doesn't sound quite right somehow).

You could save yourselves a lot of work, inconvenience, and the cost of extra pads - here's a full range of pads with the benefit of working at everyday street temps AND any conceivable track temp:

XTR 100F-1600F
XR1 100F-1600F
XR2 50F-1600F
XR3 50F-1600F
XR4 50F-1500F
GT-S 50F-1200F

http://www.cobaltfriction.com/compounds/

GT-S, XR2, XR3 are stock product for the front on RX-8, others avail.
GT-S, XR4, XR5 (not on the web site) are stock product for the rear on RX-8, others avail.

http://www.cobaltfriction.com/assets...%20--%20OE.pdf

mwood

I've heard that the GT-S is a very, very good street/track pad, but that the XR series pads are pretty aggressive for street? I don't know, I've never tried them, mostly because they are so pricey and I figured I was just going to wear out my pads quickly, in any case

The other brand I've also heard great things (or at least good things) about is Pagid, but, they also are very pricey...

Spin9k

I've learned that when you buy cheap, you usually buy over and over, and have less than steller results, but when you buy quality, things last longer, work better, and ultimately cost less. I don't know, but cheap seems to be too important a critera to many.

The GT-S is as you say, when mine do wear down I'm going for the XR5 in back, and XR3 or 4 in front. But then I dream about pulling my eyes out of their sockets from G-force threshold braking Basically I want to stop like the Ferraris I see on track lol, and replace the rotors as needed , not the pads, they're cheaper!

SouthFL

I've seen threads about Carbotech / RacingBrake rotor incompatibility over at NASIOC where people were having similar problems with the combo on their subies.

Spin9k

whoo there!!! -40 C is -40 F. Is it REALLY that cold up there? I remember -35 F as a kid growing up in Maine, and let me tell you, it was damn uncomfortable. Hell, cars only have antifreeze good to to -32F !

But where I am temps are more typically 10-40 F and yes I when I drive it (not too much) they act absolutely the same as in the summer. Instant stopping with no warmup needed. I have Racing Brake 2-piece rotors and haven't seen any builup or problems.

But if you're really at -40C - holy smokes, I'd stay home! And I can see why Cobalt would say they are not for that temp as they spec 50F and up.