The Official "RX8 in DSP" Thread
09-08-2019, 09:27 PM
#1351
That really wasn’t my point. Imo it doesn’t make sense to invest in that wheel for 1/2” extra width, let alone have four boat anchors swinging around way out there like that. Otherwise how edgy it is may depend on 17” vs 18”, shocks, spring rates, aero effectiveness, and at least a half dozen other things.
I don’t why we have to keep rehashing it, but 11” is going to be around 37mm offset, at least in the rear, though depending on how much you want to limit steering it could be more in the front. So starting higher than that and spacing out as may be necessary makes sense if you have extended studs.
I don’t why we have to keep rehashing it, but 11” is going to be around 37mm offset, at least in the rear, though depending on how much you want to limit steering it could be more in the front. So starting higher than that and spacing out as may be necessary makes sense if you have extended studs.
09-08-2019, 09:55 PM
#1352
I don’t why we have to keep rehashing it, but 11” is going to be around 37mm offset, at least in the rear, though depending on how much you want to limit steering it could be more in the front. So starting higher than that and spacing out as may be necessary makes sense if you have extended studs.
In our experience, you need closer to a 25 offset, equal offsets front and rear.
09-09-2019, 02:59 AM
#1353
Well thank you for at least telling us something that can actually be referenced against.
John has 11/315 at approx. +37 or 38 offset and my 295/10.5 has approx. the same inboard position, which means we’re 1/2” further inboard than you.
A different car is another 1/2” further inboard than us with 11”/50. Sure, you said is was rubbing pretty good which I could see, but that’s 1” more than where you’re at with the same width wheel/tire. Which is huge; like a crack in the ground vs. the Grand Canyon. I don’t see how it could ever clear at all with that much difference.
If that’s your experience though, ok fine, but the numbers don’t seem to be adding up.
John has 11/315 at approx. +37 or 38 offset and my 295/10.5 has approx. the same inboard position, which means we’re 1/2” further inboard than you.
A different car is another 1/2” further inboard than us with 11”/50. Sure, you said is was rubbing pretty good which I could see, but that’s 1” more than where you’re at with the same width wheel/tire. Which is huge; like a crack in the ground vs. the Grand Canyon. I don’t see how it could ever clear at all with that much difference.
If that’s your experience though, ok fine, but the numbers don’t seem to be adding up.
09-09-2019, 04:41 AM
#1354
Well thank you for at least telling us something that can actually be referenced against.
John has 11/315 at approx. +37 or 38 offset and my 295/10.5 has approx. the same inboard position, which means we’re 1/2” further inboard than you.
A different car is another 1/2” further inboard than us with 11”/50. Sure, you said is was rubbing pretty good which I could see, but that’s 1” more than where you’re at with the same width wheel/tire. Which is huge; like a crack in the ground vs. the Grand Canyon. I don’t see how it could ever clear at all with that much difference.
If that’s your experience though, ok fine, but the numbers don’t seem to be adding up.
John has 11/315 at approx. +37 or 38 offset and my 295/10.5 has approx. the same inboard position, which means we’re 1/2” further inboard than you.
A different car is another 1/2” further inboard than us with 11”/50. Sure, you said is was rubbing pretty good which I could see, but that’s 1” more than where you’re at with the same width wheel/tire. Which is huge; like a crack in the ground vs. the Grand Canyon. I don’t see how it could ever clear at all with that much difference.
If that’s your experience though, ok fine, but the numbers don’t seem to be adding up.
I probably need more spacer up front too, as my tires are rubbing the upper shock mount "bump" at full compression. Though I can cut that out in SM and weld in replacement metal, so I may just do that.
09-09-2019, 07:09 AM
#1355
I'm not anywhere near post nats inspection, but will report more when i can. For me, we kept putting more spacer in the rear on the Flow One F2 (18x11 et 52). ended at 15mm, and i think the rubbing on the undercoat stopped, but will try to confirm. Front is a 12mm spacer where we ended up. I did not seem to have inboard issues, and could go to about 360 degree of turning in slow speed without contact with the pinch weld.
As i mentioned, the passenger corner light tab needed more trimming. I need to invest in those JDM quick release dudes for the bumper and do away with that tab.
Caster is not very aggressive yet. hoping to get back on a rack in the next few weeks after actually getting the offset bushings installed. but with 360 degress of steering, im not certain I have to. but i will need to recheck where the contact is after the extra camber from the offset is dialed in.
As i mentioned, the passenger corner light tab needed more trimming. I need to invest in those JDM quick release dudes for the bumper and do away with that tab.
Caster is not very aggressive yet. hoping to get back on a rack in the next few weeks after actually getting the offset bushings installed. but with 360 degress of steering, im not certain I have to. but i will need to recheck where the contact is after the extra camber from the offset is dialed in.
09-09-2019, 10:01 AM
#1356
Ok, 52 - 15 = 37mm offset. Which I don’t see an issue with light scuffing. Major rubbing is a bit different. As in gouging tread face or tearing sidewalls
Funny when we had this argument several years back I was being told to shut up about it needing a spacer
18x11 +45 Forgestar F14 with 295/30-18 Z221 Ventus TD front&rear.
Wheels are just under 22lbs and cost under $1,500.
Front scrapes rim a bit on lower arm at full lock and the rear scrapes the shock/spring cover a bit on full compression with over -1 camber.
With a roll/pull on the fenders it looks like the 8 could take 18x12 +30 with 315 front and rear.
Funny when we had this argument several years back I was being told to shut up about it needing a spacer
18x11 +45 Forgestar F14 with 295/30-18 Z221 Ventus TD front&rear.
Wheels are just under 22lbs and cost under $1,500.
Front scrapes rim a bit on lower arm at full lock and the rear scrapes the shock/spring cover a bit on full compression with over -1 camber.
With a roll/pull on the fenders it looks like the 8 could take 18x12 +30 with 315 front and rear.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 12-12-2022 at 12:41 PM.
09-09-2019, 10:55 AM
#1357
I'll post pics at some point, but with how much work I have to get done, I'm not sure when. My corner light tab was doing some serious work on the sidewalls, but not until later runs on Wednesday. Makes me wonder if something loosened up, or Mike and i just drove harder over a few bumps?
09-09-2019, 12:46 PM
#1358
No rush man. The corner light is an outside front issue, which the further the wheel sticks out the more of that problem you’ll have. Of course at the front there are also inboard issues at far steering angles. Did you do any steering limiter mods yet?
which I was on the SEB when the “plane of wheel hub” fender mod rule came about and it was the intention then that anything that needed to be modified or cut away outside the hub plane was fair game as long as it was a legitimate tire interference point. That’s why the rule exists. So even if you want to argue that the corner light can’t be chopped/shortened, you should still be able to have it in one piece, but taped or wired off up inside the forward inner fender area out of the way. Which if you just go ahead and chop the outer bumper/fender area and put a JDM lip flare on it rather than keep monkeying around with trying to make it work that entire corner light area is probably going to be hidden behind the flare. I ordered a set from overseas and they disappeared in customs. Just haven’t gotten around to ordering another set.
which I was on the SEB when the “plane of wheel hub” fender mod rule came about and it was the intention then that anything that needed to be modified or cut away outside the hub plane was fair game as long as it was a legitimate tire interference point. That’s why the rule exists. So even if you want to argue that the corner light can’t be chopped/shortened, you should still be able to have it in one piece, but taped or wired off up inside the forward inner fender area out of the way. Which if you just go ahead and chop the outer bumper/fender area and put a JDM lip flare on it rather than keep monkeying around with trying to make it work that entire corner light area is probably going to be hidden behind the flare. I ordered a set from overseas and they disappeared in customs. Just haven’t gotten around to ordering another set.
09-09-2019, 01:03 PM
#1359
We should probably submit for a clarification to see if we can get rid of the annoying corner light. We heated ours and bent it out to match the new fender contour, since I wasn't sure if the rules permitted us to delete it. It's technically a blinker, so I think we have to keep it? We have ours so it doesn't interfere anymore so doesn't make a huge difference to us.
09-09-2019, 01:34 PM
#1360
We should probably submit for a clarification to see if we can get rid of the annoying corner light. We heated ours and bent it out to match the new fender contour, since I wasn't sure if the rules permitted us to delete it. It's technically a blinker, so I think we have to keep it? We have ours so it doesn't interfere anymore so doesn't make a huge difference to us.
In my view under the current rules the corner lights can't be removed but they can be clearanced as much as needed as they are outside the hub face. Which is kind of dumb, but just strictly reading the rules it doesn't look like it's allowed. I am fairly convinced I can remove them in SM under the 1lb rule, but I still have them because the car looks a little silly with them gone.
09-09-2019, 05:44 PM
#1361
Where do you come up with that?
“Fenders and bumpers may be modified for tire clearance.”
That is the rule, plain and simple. The only limit placed on it is that it has to be outside of the wheel hubface plane and can’t serve any other purpose except tire clearance. Which “modified” also means we’re allowed to cut it out entirely, not just bend it out of the way. So if that cavity is gone where do you propose it be located? It’s also not removed under what I posted, but tucked out of the way. So the weight is still present, though I doubt it even ways 2 ounces. Yet we have competitors in this class removing several pounds of insulator panels from the inner fender wells and firewall of the engine bay and don’t think twice about it (you know who you are). You recently told someone here that missing front bumper trim is ok. You also previously argued the corner light couldn’t be cut or modified, but seemed to have flipped on that now. You’re only consistent point is being inconsistent, lolz.
The real issue is people overlooking why the rule exists and trying to reinterpret it over petty minutia and this is a perfect example imo.
“Fenders and bumpers may be modified for tire clearance.”
That is the rule, plain and simple. The only limit placed on it is that it has to be outside of the wheel hubface plane and can’t serve any other purpose except tire clearance. Which “modified” also means we’re allowed to cut it out entirely, not just bend it out of the way. So if that cavity is gone where do you propose it be located? It’s also not removed under what I posted, but tucked out of the way. So the weight is still present, though I doubt it even ways 2 ounces. Yet we have competitors in this class removing several pounds of insulator panels from the inner fender wells and firewall of the engine bay and don’t think twice about it (you know who you are). You recently told someone here that missing front bumper trim is ok. You also previously argued the corner light couldn’t be cut or modified, but seemed to have flipped on that now. You’re only consistent point is being inconsistent, lolz.
The real issue is people overlooking why the rule exists and trying to reinterpret it over petty minutia and this is a perfect example imo.
09-09-2019, 05:56 PM
#1362
So I went over and read some CSP threads and with 275/10 they’re hitting and cutting off part of the front bumper structure. Not the cover, the actual bumper. The stuff going on here over a light piece of plastic is just dumb.
09-09-2019, 05:58 PM
#1363
It's a blinker, not a fender or bumper, so it's a valid question and something that should be clarified before someone removes it entirely.
09-09-2019, 06:06 PM
#1364
Again, you are being completely oblivious about what the rule is for.
You can cut that entire location out. How to you propose mounting it when the structure that previously held it is completely removed? My previous suggestion was to tuck it out of way. I never said to just delete it. You should be more worried about your sagging motor mounts, lol.
Core Modifications
• Permanent alteration to the body, such as modification of fenders via cutting and/or flaring for tire clearance.
• Permanent alteration to the body, such as modification of fenders via cutting and/or flaring for tire clearance.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 09-09-2019 at 06:24 PM.
09-09-2019, 06:24 PM
#1365
Again, you are being completely oblivious about what the rule is for. You can cut that entire location out. How to you propose mounting it when the structure that previously held it is completely removed? My previous suggestion was to tuck it out of way. I never said to just delete it. You should be more worried about your sagging motor mounts, lol.
I get the intent of the rule, but no other car competing in SP has a blinker there. The only way to know for sure is to get a clarification. Not sure why it’s such a big deal to you?
And we measured the mounts and and they were OE height if installed as intended, we already hashed that out. Not sure why you like to keep arguing the same thing over and over.
Go build your car. Racing is more fun than arguing ;p
09-09-2019, 06:49 PM
#1366
Well that’s what you say, but they sit lower than mine by your own picture and it took me putting a the big washer on top because otherwise it sagged. I’m not going to protest you over it. It’s just a point on legality that doesn’t align with my own experience.
You’re the one blathering on about a clarification on every little thing. It says you can modify the fender by cutting and/or flaring for tire clearance and there isn’t any limitation listed about whether a light or anything else exists there. Do you think they’re going to say that oh sorry RX8’s, you don’t get to do the same as everyone else because that little piece of plastic is there? How does that make any sense as compared to modifying for tire clearance and tucking it out of the way?
I don’t care other than imo you’re misleading everybody with your constant clarification nagging. You can protest me to your hearts content over it.
Otherwise I think maybe we enjoy trolling each other too much ...
.
You’re the one blathering on about a clarification on every little thing. It says you can modify the fender by cutting and/or flaring for tire clearance and there isn’t any limitation listed about whether a light or anything else exists there. Do you think they’re going to say that oh sorry RX8’s, you don’t get to do the same as everyone else because that little piece of plastic is there? How does that make any sense as compared to modifying for tire clearance and tucking it out of the way?
I don’t care other than imo you’re misleading everybody with your constant clarification nagging. You can protest me to your hearts content over it.
Otherwise I think maybe we enjoy trolling each other too much ...
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 09-09-2019 at 07:04 PM.
09-09-2019, 07:33 PM
#1367
I’ll just point out that JV is on the **** and doesn’t think it’s legal. I asked someone else on the **** when we were doing our fenders, and they didn’t think it was legal either.If you disagree, write a letter. It’s not my opinion that matters. I’m just sharing the knowledge I’ve gained so that hopefully no one has to try to undo anything.
09-09-2019, 07:47 PM
#1368
Well I was on the SEB and knew what the intent was when we added that outside the hubface wording. That doesn’t really mean anything now though. It’s the PC that determines legality at an event, not the opinion of a **** member. It’s then the SEB that decides for an appeal. John’s welcome to his opinion, which you disagreed with on other things you insisted then needed a clarification. Now you’re playing both sides of the coin, nice.
where does it say bumpers can be modified i.e. CSP or heating and bending the lamp, or adding that little doohickey you have on there. You don’t even play by your own rules. Just so you’re clear; it’s an “advisory” committee. It’s the SEB that decides what goes in the rulebook. My time on there was quite a few years back, but we didn’t always do or agree with what the AC suggested. Which I was also on an AC after my SEB stint. The AC only does the summary ground work for the SEB to review and decide on.
.
.
where does it say bumpers can be modified i.e. CSP or heating and bending the lamp, or adding that little doohickey you have on there. You don’t even play by your own rules. Just so you’re clear; it’s an “advisory” committee. It’s the SEB that decides what goes in the rulebook. My time on there was quite a few years back, but we didn’t always do or agree with what the AC suggested. Which I was also on an AC after my SEB stint. The AC only does the summary ground work for the SEB to review and decide on.
.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 09-09-2019 at 07:55 PM.
09-10-2019, 08:55 AM
#1371
Considering making the DSP leap with my Rx8. What power levels would the rotary need to make to be competitive? I want to make sure my engine is up for the task before i start going off the deep end.
09-10-2019, 09:21 AM
#1372
I honestly think good suspension is worth more than power on these cars, but to get to the tippy top you need power and suspension. And driving
Feel free to PM me if you're looking for any more specific advise. I probably won't follow this forum too closely going forward as TeamRX8 sucks the fun out of the place for me. The DSP group of people in general are great though, so don't let the banter on this forum scare you away.
I'll leave things with this. I wrote this article two seasons ago and it gives a quick rundown of how to build a competitive DSP RX8. The only out dated information in the article at this point relates to the wheels and tires (I was running 275's at the time, now it's looking like 295 or 315 are the fastest option), and the differential (we're now running an OSG after blowing up two torsen diffs. Although, if your local sites aren't as bumpy as ours, the torsen might still work).
https://www.mazdamotorsports.com/201...d-tips-budget/
Good luck with your build and I hope to see you out next year. PM me any time with questions.
The following users liked this post:
AkursedX (09-10-2019)
The following users liked this post:
StealthTL (09-13-2019)
09-13-2019, 02:32 PM
#1375
Well that’s what you say, but they sit lower than mine by your own picture and it took me putting a the big washer on top because otherwise it sagged. I’m not going to protest you over it. It’s just a point on legality that doesn’t align with my own experience.
You’re the one blathering on about a clarification on every little thing. It says you can modify the fender by cutting and/or flaring for tire clearance and there isn’t any limitation listed about whether a light or anything else exists there. Do you think they’re going to say that oh sorry RX8’s, you don’t get to do the same as everyone else because that little piece of plastic is there? How does that make any sense as compared to modifying for tire clearance and tucking it out of the way?
I don’t care other than imo you’re misleading everybody with your constant clarification nagging. You can protest me to your hearts content over it.
Otherwise I think maybe we enjoy trolling each other too much ...
.
You’re the one blathering on about a clarification on every little thing. It says you can modify the fender by cutting and/or flaring for tire clearance and there isn’t any limitation listed about whether a light or anything else exists there. Do you think they’re going to say that oh sorry RX8’s, you don’t get to do the same as everyone else because that little piece of plastic is there? How does that make any sense as compared to modifying for tire clearance and tucking it out of the way?
I don’t care other than imo you’re misleading everybody with your constant clarification nagging. You can protest me to your hearts content over it.
Otherwise I think maybe we enjoy trolling each other too much ...
.
