How is the RX8 on the track?
01-17-2006, 12:49 PM
#76
I miss my 'Bu
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I think DSC is a great system. My experiences on track are mostly with DSC on. I did have a scary spinout in turn 5 at road atlanta last spring though while running with it off. I was getting frustrated because it would grab the front brakes in turn 3 which is a quick right hander where you hop the curbing. The car would push ever so slightly at the apex and DSC would try to correct. It was an unneeded correction as a bit of slip is totally natural there.
My next event was with Toyo RA1s at Roebling Road. I ran the first session with DSC on to get a feel for the car. At one turn (5) I felt DSC activate and all was well. My instructor said it was a nice save so I directed praise to the car. When I turned off the system I was going into the same curve and felt the car slide slightly. I didn't panic and just gave a bit of steering and the tires grabbed. My instructor asked if that was me or DSC and I had to take credit that time. Roebling is a track that has a back half where you steer with the throttle. If you pick up the speed, you need to turn off DSC if your suspension is upgraded. The stock setup allowed more freedom.
My last event of 2005 was at Rockingham, NC which is a banked oval (37 degrees I believe) and an infield road course. At 91 mph on the banking DSC would freak out pulsing the ABS on the outside rear tire. Think about that for a minute. Can you say extra rotation? Scary as hell. I seemed to forget to turn off DSC each time I went out. When would I remember? Lap two in Nascar Turn 1 & 2 when I was up to speed and exeeding 91. Lucky I work up to speed so I was always right at the threshold of where it kicked in. I am not sure how much of the DSC system is based on G-Forces but I am sure that on steep banking there is a lot more g force in a weird direction that the car isn't expecting. I drove the whole weekend with DSC off and the car felt good but my goal was to drive it home. So keep it at 8/10s and don't be stupid. If you drive with DSC on, it won't defy the laws of physics either.
Best advice is don't drive over your head and feel what the car and tires are doing. The RX8 communicates very well through the steering wheel.
I don't think it is a testament of skill or anything to drive with DSC on or off. You do what is comfortable for you and it may vary from track to track. I won't run Road Atlanta with DSC off because of the danger of an off. One close call is enough for me.
My next event was with Toyo RA1s at Roebling Road. I ran the first session with DSC on to get a feel for the car. At one turn (5) I felt DSC activate and all was well. My instructor said it was a nice save so I directed praise to the car. When I turned off the system I was going into the same curve and felt the car slide slightly. I didn't panic and just gave a bit of steering and the tires grabbed. My instructor asked if that was me or DSC and I had to take credit that time. Roebling is a track that has a back half where you steer with the throttle. If you pick up the speed, you need to turn off DSC if your suspension is upgraded. The stock setup allowed more freedom.
My last event of 2005 was at Rockingham, NC which is a banked oval (37 degrees I believe) and an infield road course. At 91 mph on the banking DSC would freak out pulsing the ABS on the outside rear tire. Think about that for a minute. Can you say extra rotation? Scary as hell. I seemed to forget to turn off DSC each time I went out. When would I remember? Lap two in Nascar Turn 1 & 2 when I was up to speed and exeeding 91. Lucky I work up to speed so I was always right at the threshold of where it kicked in. I am not sure how much of the DSC system is based on G-Forces but I am sure that on steep banking there is a lot more g force in a weird direction that the car isn't expecting. I drove the whole weekend with DSC off and the car felt good but my goal was to drive it home. So keep it at 8/10s and don't be stupid. If you drive with DSC on, it won't defy the laws of physics either.
Best advice is don't drive over your head and feel what the car and tires are doing. The RX8 communicates very well through the steering wheel.
I don't think it is a testament of skill or anything to drive with DSC on or off. You do what is comfortable for you and it may vary from track to track. I won't run Road Atlanta with DSC off because of the danger of an off. One close call is enough for me.
01-17-2006, 03:42 PM
#78
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Spin,
Oh yeah. Coming back onto the old course from the boot, oh joy. I'm always easy (read chicken) into that turn, probably 6/10ths. And my line is very conservative with a late entry and a very late apex. That turn is pretty evil because it is unlike most of the other turns at the Glen. I believe most of the other turns have some banking (6 degrees?) so there is always more traction than you think. You get used to it then you hit THAT turn and ugh! It's a bit unnerving.
I think your adventure at turn 1 is interesting. I had DSC intervene only on turn 1. If I recall correctly, the entrance into turn 1 is a decline so you kind of drop into the turn as you are steering, then the car gets heavy as I hit the bank. I think this light - heavy thing was the critical issue in activating DSC for me and may have been enough to upset your car enough to spin.
If there is anywhere to make a mistake at the Glen, its got to be turn 1. No armco! Congrats on your successful and inexpensive spin.
Bruce
Oh yeah. Coming back onto the old course from the boot, oh joy. I'm always easy (read chicken) into that turn, probably 6/10ths. And my line is very conservative with a late entry and a very late apex. That turn is pretty evil because it is unlike most of the other turns at the Glen. I believe most of the other turns have some banking (6 degrees?) so there is always more traction than you think. You get used to it then you hit THAT turn and ugh! It's a bit unnerving.
I think your adventure at turn 1 is interesting. I had DSC intervene only on turn 1. If I recall correctly, the entrance into turn 1 is a decline so you kind of drop into the turn as you are steering, then the car gets heavy as I hit the bank. I think this light - heavy thing was the critical issue in activating DSC for me and may have been enough to upset your car enough to spin.
If there is anywhere to make a mistake at the Glen, its got to be turn 1. No armco! Congrats on your successful and inexpensive spin.
Bruce
Last edited by moto_bruce; 01-17-2006 at 03:45 PM.
01-18-2006, 01:55 PM
#79
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Did my first HPDE this past weekend with the RX-8 at Motorsports Ranch Houston. Stock tires and rims. It's a great track (to this newbie, anyhow) - 2.9 miles long, only one elevation change.
The car handles great, and I didn't find the DSC a problem. It did come on a few times, and my instructor and I puzzled over what could be tripping it. The best we could come up with was the car didn't like trailing throttle (which made it a great DE car for beginners, in my instructor's opinion). But the better I drove, the less the DSC came on.
But overall, great car. Underpowered relative to most of the Porsches I was running with, but hey, what isn't? Kept up with most of them in the twisty bits. Able to out-handle an inexpertly-driven Elise (got to pass him a few times).
The brakes were great - Hawk HPS up front, stock in the rear. I didn't feel any fade over the 180 or so miles. Gotta get some more seat time and eventually some stickier tires. Kept the tire pressures so that they would be at 40 at all four corners when I had just come off the course (i.e., didn't really pay attention to what they were cold). And I gotta keep practicing the good habits I started to learn at the track. It was eye-opening to realize how sloppily it's possible to drive on the street with a car that covers up your mistakes.
And it turns out I have bigger nuts than most Porsche owners. Lug nuts, that is, so it was hard to find a socket to check torque settings on my wheels.
-El Kabong
The car handles great, and I didn't find the DSC a problem. It did come on a few times, and my instructor and I puzzled over what could be tripping it. The best we could come up with was the car didn't like trailing throttle (which made it a great DE car for beginners, in my instructor's opinion). But the better I drove, the less the DSC came on.
But overall, great car. Underpowered relative to most of the Porsches I was running with, but hey, what isn't? Kept up with most of them in the twisty bits. Able to out-handle an inexpertly-driven Elise (got to pass him a few times).
The brakes were great - Hawk HPS up front, stock in the rear. I didn't feel any fade over the 180 or so miles. Gotta get some more seat time and eventually some stickier tires. Kept the tire pressures so that they would be at 40 at all four corners when I had just come off the course (i.e., didn't really pay attention to what they were cold). And I gotta keep practicing the good habits I started to learn at the track. It was eye-opening to realize how sloppily it's possible to drive on the street with a car that covers up your mistakes.
And it turns out I have bigger nuts than most Porsche owners. Lug nuts, that is, so it was hard to find a socket to check torque settings on my wheels.
-El Kabong
01-18-2006, 02:51 PM
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MSR Houston was great for this beginner, because most of the track is bounded by dirt or fields of grass, so less worry about going off-track. No trees or terrain to look at, but no trees or terrain to worry about smacking into. Just the wall separating you from pit row.
-El Kabong
-El Kabong
01-18-2006, 08:47 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by ZoomZoomH
21mm socket to check yer nuts, don't leave home without it.
01-19-2006, 05:08 AM
#87
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Originally Posted by ZoomZoomH
the club that i do HPDE with is fine with wheel locks as long as i provide the key so they can check the torque during tech inspection.
01-19-2006, 10:30 AM
#88
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Originally Posted by TrackAddict
Speaking of wheel locks - ditch them. It is only a matter of time before the key or the locks strip or break and it is exactly when you don't want it to happen.
Anyway, I don't use them on my summer wheels and tires anymore...
01-19-2006, 09:44 PM
#90
Out here in Calif. they teach to not use DSC. you become reliant on it. Then when you get fast and turn it of you loose control. alot of people have had problems with that.
As far as spining tires, dependsupon your set up. With my mods I spin the rears very easily.
First time on Track I warped the rotors. You need good pad and DOT 4 fluid.
I think the DSC might have caused the warping.
Do you really want to drive fast and then have a computer slam on the brakes?
DSC on slows my corner exits.
If plan on not being hard core and doing alot of track days then, leave the DSC on.
As far as spining tires, dependsupon your set up. With my mods I spin the rears very easily.
First time on Track I warped the rotors. You need good pad and DOT 4 fluid.
I think the DSC might have caused the warping.
Do you really want to drive fast and then have a computer slam on the brakes?
DSC on slows my corner exits.
If plan on not being hard core and doing alot of track days then, leave the DSC on.
01-19-2006, 10:43 PM
#91
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you know you most likely have deposits on your rotors right? you can fix that by getting a set of hawk blues and bedding them on your rotors.
But I do totally agree with you about learning with it off to let you learn how the car responds on its own without any computer input.
But I do totally agree with you about learning with it off to let you learn how the car responds on its own without any computer input.
01-20-2006, 12:30 AM
#92
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Originally Posted by BlueRenesis82
you know you most likely have deposits on your rotors right? you can fix that by getting a set of hawk blues and bedding them on your rotors.
But I do totally agree with you about learning with it off to let you learn how the car responds on its own without any computer input.
But I do totally agree with you about learning with it off to let you learn how the car responds on its own without any computer input.
If you do spin though, make sure other people aren't in the car because you might never hear the end of it.
01-21-2006, 11:06 AM
#93
But what if you are on a track with little to no run off? Like our Road Atlanta? Judgement call I would think. My main goal is to be able to drive it home. Now if I am on Roebling or anyother track that has a lot of run off---sure--turn it off. I have found our Nanny to be very unintrusive when the run is smooth.
olddragger
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01-22-2006, 04:25 PM
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Stop it, Stop it I said...
Stop talking about the track. I can't stand it anymore -- I have to wait ~two more months to try any of the things you are all talking about. Stop it I can't take the wait...
For one, I will use my DSC at the Glen until I stop driving. I plan on taking it off when I go back to VIR. I could feel it slow the momentum of my car down in turn 12 (the Oak Tree) as my instructor was trying to get me to 'throw' the car around 12 by stabbing the brakes and turning wheel at the same time. The intended effect was to throw the rear out and get pointed down the back straight. With the DSC on and in third gear, the DSC would brake the wheels and cut the throttle on me so that I would end up in too low an RPM range with no momentum and no power. I plan to try two things next time. First, turn off the DSC and stay in third and second, keep it on and try to coordinate a downshift into second gear between 11 and 12. That will take some real finesse and skill that I am not sure I can muscle but combined with the DSC off, is, I am convinced, the faster way to work that section of the track.
Stop talking about the track. I can't stand it anymore -- I have to wait ~two more months to try any of the things you are all talking about. Stop it I can't take the wait...
For one, I will use my DSC at the Glen until I stop driving. I plan on taking it off when I go back to VIR. I could feel it slow the momentum of my car down in turn 12 (the Oak Tree) as my instructor was trying to get me to 'throw' the car around 12 by stabbing the brakes and turning wheel at the same time. The intended effect was to throw the rear out and get pointed down the back straight. With the DSC on and in third gear, the DSC would brake the wheels and cut the throttle on me so that I would end up in too low an RPM range with no momentum and no power. I plan to try two things next time. First, turn off the DSC and stay in third and second, keep it on and try to coordinate a downshift into second gear between 11 and 12. That will take some real finesse and skill that I am not sure I can muscle but combined with the DSC off, is, I am convinced, the faster way to work that section of the track.
.....I found that the car with the DSC on is very inobtrusive if you drive it to 95%....and if you push it too far it will start to react....about at the time you realize that your corner entry is way too hot....
01-22-2006, 06:08 PM
#98
Momentum Keeps Me Going
It was almost 60 here couple days ago, and now no snow on the grnd at all... til tomorrow anyway
I'm hoping for April ... only 8 weeks or so to go 
til then... I took the 8 out today ... ummm.. cold air ... nice power .... fun
I'm hoping for April ... only 8 weeks or so to go til then... I took the 8 out today ... ummm.. cold air ... nice power .... fun
Last edited by Spin9k; 01-22-2006 at 06:10 PM.
01-22-2006, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by willhave8
I plan on taking it off when I go back to VIR. I could feel it slow the momentum of my car down in turn 12 (the Oak Tree) as my instructor was trying to get me to 'throw' the car around 12 by stabbing the brakes and turning wheel at the same time. The intended effect was to throw the rear out and get pointed down the back straight.
I'll be at VIR-F in a couple of weeks in my 8. This is my first school in this car, and I'm giddy as a schoolgirl
I won't be turning DSC on or off. Mine's a base model 