CyberDog

iTrader: (1)

Hi All,

I'm looking to get opinions on how the RX8 is on the track in stock form. How do the brakes hold up? Are there any weak parts of the car? How does it perform?

I've done a number of track days at NHIS and LimeRock in a 2000 BMW 328i and most recently an '04 STi. I traded the STi for an '04 S4 and hoped to put my '96 Miata on the track but am not happy with the seating options in order to fit my 6'2" frame under the roll bar. If the Miata doesn't work out I may dump the S4 for a good track car and the RX8 is one I'm considering. The S4 is a nice car but is too heavy for track duty.

Thanks for any information!

- Bill

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

rx8 is a great track car. Im 6'1" --dont get the sunroof option as it decreases helmet clearance--workable by letting the seat recline a littel. Brakes are GREAT. Handling outstanding. Our group has a guy that is selling a EVO to buy an 8. Its a momentum car so doent expect gobs of hp/torque. Car also is very versatle--family of four can go on vacation in it.
olddragger

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

^ What olddragger said. I'm 6'1" and I have the sunroof. It's a little tight up top. I hit my helmet all the time, but I have adjusted the seat to make it work.

Excellent track car. I passed allot of cars my first day out. No weak points in the stocker, but mods to the suspension would help 'ya enjoy it more

Check my mods out in case you interested...

dmp

I found my stock brake pads were fading quite a bit at the end of the 1/2 mile long front straight during the track day I did.

Get new brake pads, and get used to body roll, and the car does pretty well. I'd also suggest better tires.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Dmp, I need to take you for a ride in my setup - I think you will like it allot. Pretty much eliminated the body roll.

dmp

Would love to! Cept I'm scared that reducing body-roll too much would adversly affect 'grip'. I'm unsure how much the suspension uses body roll in the execution of handling and such.

Still, I'd love to go for a spin...maybe that's a bad choice of words?

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

the large brakes and relative light weight (< 3000lbs) make this car an excellent starting point for track use in stock form

Marc_GS

Interesting point. I've heard the Miata actually makes good use of suspension movement to keep the car planted in turns. I wonder if the same suspension magicians worked on the RX8?

You know, I bought this car with the specific purpose of learning to drive a RWD car quickly on the track. Yet I never asked the question of whether it was good or not before getting it!. I guess I just had faith.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

"Like butta"

Imp

Having only done one track day at NHIS with COM, the car was really composed (Chicane/chicane). Any mistake I did in my driving was not hidden with the car. It will do exactly what you tell it to do.

I did it on the stock Bridgestones but with Koni yellows, Carbotech Panter+ front and Bobcat rear. No brake fade at all, but would come unsettled a bit coming over the hump at 8 at the top of 3rd heading into 9-10. Some of that was the shocks being too stiff in the rear, but they are a PITA to adjust. so I didn't.

IMHO, just throw some decent brake pads on the car, especially if you're doing NASCAR turn 2... just to be on the safe side.

I do plan on doing more track days this year with the 8, but auto-x is my gig. Not many people running them up here.

--kC

Spin9k

You'll enjoy yourself mightily.. my 1st event was bone stock at Watkins Glen, NY lin '04 and I had a blast for 2 days while getting initiated into the sport. Only thing that happened is the brakes became kinda numb at the end, probably glazed over. It passed after a couple weeks of street driving. After that Limerock before I started adding things.

Check out my site & videos for what only minor performance mods (tires, sways and strut bars basically) do for the car on track in the NE. It doesn't really cost (<2K$) to improve the car's track behavior significantly. BTW, the mods solved the hill bump and back end out at NHIS.

Oh yea, I added brake air ducts to keep temps down at NHIS, temps came down from ~500 degrees to in the ~300 range after the rework. Long tracks it doesn't matter much, they get cool quick anyway. I try to not use brakes on track so much they last longer - same stock pads after 2.5 yrs!

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Have a DIY on your cooling duct work posted?

CyberDog

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for the excellent site reference and information! Just what I'm looking for. It was really nice to see your RX8 go around NHIS since I'm very familiar with it. I primarily run with COM so when I'm there again I'll check to see if you are around and say hi.

- Bill

Imp

When was the last time you ran with COM?

CyberDog

iTrader: (1)

A little over a year ago. I did the November LimeRock event and a couple of NHIS ones before that in my STi.

- Bill

Spin9k

No I haven't yet. But here are a couple pics for you. Used some drainage pipe connector pieces from Home Depot one day when I was bored. The angle of the inner guard is exactly angled when you cut a hole just so to shoot the air at the brake dust shield air intake area.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Interesting to say the least. I'll need to look this over when I get my garage built.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

One thing I have trouble with, is seeing behind me, and looking down track heading into a right hand turn. The rear view mirror is a pain.

Michael

In a DE setting, the RX-8 is incredible. My instructor (blue group at the time) was so psyched to drive it that he ran it in red group with other instructors - the two cars that it couldn't keep up with were a new Elise and a full race RS America. The Carreras and other peons fell below the awesome power of the RX-8.

Tires wear out quickly and would make a huge difference if stickier, just keep them the same width all the way around to maintain the balance of the car [aka dont stagger]. Go 1/2 inch wider for your tires than your wheel width if you can manage it. The Stock wheels are really light to begin with so dont touch those.

Good helmet- how much is your head worth?

Michael

http://www.scca.com/Event/Event.asp
Results from SCCA Solo Nationals, B-Stock

T 1 48 Jason Isley 2005 Mazda RX8 Slv Kumho 57.562 56.478 55.283 114.202



Ladera Ranch, CA MAZDASPEED/KUMHO/SCCAForums.com San Diego Regio/SP 58.919 59.147 59.482
T 2 94 Joe Goeke 2005 Mazda Rx8 Blk Kumho 58.373 55.924 55.356 114.798



Kirkland, WA Team Butt Heat! Northwest Regio/NP 60.417 59.802 59.442 -0.596
T 3 168 Ron Bauer 1995 Porsche 968 Red Kumho 57.538 55.479 55.433 114.861


[68] Renton, WA Kumho / Bauerspeed Racing / Team Butt Heat Northwest Regio/NP 60.397 61.672(1) 59.428 -0.063
T 4 166 Keith P Casey 2004 Mazda RX8 Grn Kumho 60.680(2) 58.565(1) 55.817 114.883


[66] Somerset, MA RallyDecals.com New England Reg/NE 63.547(2) 60.921(1) 59.066 -0.022
T 5 93 Eric D Jones 2004 Mazda RX-8 Blu Kumho 57.365 58.201(1) 55.008 115.104



Austin, TX WithoutAClue Racing/RTRT Lone Star Regio/SW 63.879(2) 60.096 61.996(1) -0.221
T 6 82 Phillip A. Weber 2004 Mazda RX-8 Gry Kumho 57.587 58.781(1) 54.993 115.176


[182] Boerne, TX
Alamo Region/SW 64.584(2) 60.222 60.183 -0.072
T 7 58 Randall Noll 2004 Mazda RX8 Blu Kumho 57.469 68.258(6) 55.940 115.487



Carlsbad, CA
San Francisco R/NP 59.921 59.547 59.566 -0.311
T 8 191 Mark A Sipe 2005 Mazda RX-8 Wht Kumho 60.194(1) 56.031 55.741 115.526


[91] Keller, TX KONI - MazdaSpeed - Truechoice - Mazmart Texas Region/SW 59.964 59.833 59.785 -0.039
T 9 91 G.H. Sharp 2005 Mazda RX-8 Wht Kumho 65.251(4) 59.511(2) 57.001(1) 115.830


[191] Kernersville, NC SF Motorsports Central Carolin/SE 59.216 59.365 58.829 -0.304

10 196 Christopher J Hammon 2003 Nissan 350Z Enthusiast Blu Kumho 59.219(1) 58.204(1) 56.146 116.632


[96] Saint Louis, MO SCCAForums.com / SoloPerformance.com St Louis Region/MW 62.792(1) 60.852 60.486 -0.802

11 99 John P Vitamvas 2004 Mazda RX-8 Gry Kumho 58.908(1) 56.044 59.649(2) 116.669


That's just the top 10.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

is that 4inch pipe you are using for the ducts? Good idea!
olddragger

BlueEyes

Were the Carreras and other "peons" driven by instructors or just some schmoe with 90 grand laying around. I'd wager the latter.

Spin9k

Inside the wheel well it's a 5" opening. As I remember I used 2 reducers, one into the other to go thru the fender area. They were joiners that go with this type of pipe, not sure what they were called exactly.

moto_bruce

Bill,

I made an acquaintance at the last track day I drove, Anthony, who also drove an RX8 (VERY fast driver). He had posted times as quick as most of the instructors, even in heavier hardware. Alot of other drivers were approaching me telling me how fast I was and I had to tell them it was the other guy in the RX8. His comment was what other car can hang with an E46 M3 for 30k? In TopGear, the Stig drove a 350Z, M3 and RX8 with identical times around their test course, all cars stock. What I also enjoy about the RX8 is that is has depth. It won't scare someone new to motorsport, but a good driver can really dance with it. I remember my first track day in the car. Bone stock off the showroom flow, not even an alignment and it was so confidence inspiring, so easy to drive fast. The car isn't going to let you hide behind horsepower. Your driving skill will be naked for the world to see. But if you really do it well, the car is very, very fast.

Some of my experience for trackin':

One other issue that I didn't see mentioned yet was fuel. I can't remember the exact level, somewhere between 1/8 and 3/8 tank if memory is serving me properly, you will run into fuel starvation. It isn't in the corners, it is on the straights which is kind of weird. The first track day I did a couple of years ago was Buttonwillow and I was cruising down the front straight at a fair clip and the car stuttered. There are theories floating around about why this happens, I don't know myself. What is important to know is that it happens and that you need to schedule your fueling properly so that you don't waste a session stuttering along. I need to do some experimenting at my next track day (May) to find out exactly the level. I was so paranoid about it last time that I would run 2 track sessions, which would run me down to just below 1/2 tank, go and fill up. Next time out I'm bringing a 5 gal jug so that I can cut down on trips to the gas station and really find out at what level I start to see the starvation.

You will use a lot of fuel. At the Glen, I saw about 8mpg. At Buttonwillow I was seeing 7mpg. Something else to figure into your expenses. My S2K buddy was seeing about 10mpg at the Glen.

On the subject of brakes, I have some observations. My car is an early 04. I drove 3 track days on the stock tires and pads, including a warm day at Willow Springs. I didn't notice any brake fade. The last event I did the Glen with R compounds and new OEM pads. I bedded the pads in properly a week before the event. However, I ended up depositing pad material unevenly on the rotors by lunch on the first day of the event and the vibration only got worst during the weekend.

A few things come to mind:

1. The new OEM brake pads are a different compound than that which came on the car. I had heard about complaints of dusty pads and replacements available from dealers that don't dust as much. I haven't noticed too much of a difference is dusting, and I really didn't care anyway.

2. I probably should have put the pads on my car much earlier to allow the compound to cure more with regular use instead of just relying on the bedding in. Just my opinion.

3. R compounds give way more grip than OEM pads can handle at track speeds, causing overheating.

As far as handling goes, the car shows more body lean than a lot of other sports cars, but don't mistake that for an unsporting setup. It is just another form of communication from the chassis to the driver. Grip is very high, the car is very progressive and doesn't surprise at the limit. Transitions are a little slower than cars with really stiff suspensions, but turns and transitions happen so slowly on the track compared to auto-x it really isn't an issue.

I noticed that I was able to generate a greater pressure increase in my front tires than the rear. You would think that it would happen the other way around, and I know that driving style has a lot to do with it, but I think that shows just how good the stock brakes are, that you can work the front tires more, in spite of spending much more time on the throttle. This also tells me that a staggered set up is not a good idea, at least in my case.

I ran the last event with the DSC on and I will continue to do so until I start to see intervention that I don't like. I did see it come on a couple of times in turn 1 when I was a little too hot for the DSC. I didn't feel uncomfortable or that I was driving beyond my level, but the intrusion of the system was gentle so I didn't feel like I was fighting the system. When I start to feel like I am fighting the system, then I will turn it off.

I hope my observations are of help.

Bruce

avakiannl

iTrader: (1)

What are your rear Konis set at?

How about front (street vs. track)?