The_Beast

I think the FD did set the bar pretty high, so when its replacement came people were expecting better, or at least similar performance. As for the Miata, growing up I always kind of put it off in my mind as a serious sports car because of its size, and I think a lot of Americans (at least where I grew up) did the same as well. In my area muscle cars were the big performance cars, so a little 4 banger Miata wasn't even a thing to consider.

TALAN7

The Miata has no direct competitor and is not seen as a performance car but as a fun to drive convertible. The people who buy Miatas aren't even looking for performance but are looking for cuteness and fun. It is because the Miata has carved out this niche and because no one else makes an inexpensive 2 seat convertible is why it's successful. Also, that market is small to begin with and won't be able to stand many inexpensive 2 seat convertibles. 1 would stand out causing the others to fall away by the wayside.

The 8 on the other hand comes from a lineage of hi performance cars like the 7. It looks like a race car. It's funny how the 8 wins all of the races it's in but doesn't perform as well on the street or even the track when it comes to stock. Somewhere, someone is getting the 8 to perform. The rotary still makes a great race engine, mada just needs to get more of it to the street, reliably.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I agree with the rest, but just a factual correction to this point...

The Miata is one of the top, if not the top, car of choice for club and weekend racers. Any track or autocross time at all you will always see Miata's present, and talking with people who don't even own them at these events, they always know TONS about them.

Some people, and perhaps even a slight majority of buyers, buy it because it's small, light, and 'fun'. But your statement is not accurate. Even those people buy it for the performance it has (which makes it "fun"), but there is a whole industry around people that buy it specifically because of it's track performance.


I'm one of those buyers.

TALAN7

But did you buy it because it's faster around a track than say a Z car, Evo, STI or whatever or because it's fun to drive around a track fast. There's a difference. A ZR1 might be faster around a track but that doesn't mean it's as more fun to drive around a track.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Actually, I bought a Miata because the consistent top times where I run are almost all Miatas. And they are dirt cheap to buy and dirt cheap to get competitively fast.

On the same course, stock for stock, my Miata is faster than my 8, and responds WAY faster to mods.



Just pointing out that I'm not unique. There is a reason that they are so favored, and it debunks your statement that they aren't purchased for performance.


I agreed with the rest of your statement.

oltmann

Maybe it is just because I notice them more, but around here (Orange County, CA) I seem to see almost as many Miata's with functional-looking mods, and maybe some dings that look cone-related, as those driven by the cute-factor buyers.

diabolical1

not that the Rx-7 set the expectations in the wrong direction, but more like people can't or refuse to get that while the Rx-8 was the production car that continued the legacy of the Mazda rotary engine, it was never really meant as the "next" Rx-7. some people just don't get that. if i recall, somewhere in the late '99/early '00 timeframe, they had released and even tested a concept (i think it was called the Rx-01 or something). the next thing i knew i saw the Rx-8 being released.

in all honesty though, i sort of blame Mazda for that, too. i think they played on the successes and nostalgia of the Rx-7 as much as they highlighted the Rx-8s differences from the pure sports car formula. it's understandable since they're in the business of selling cars, but it sort of helped it sort of helped put the 8 in this position of not living up to a legend.

the 8 is fraught with ambiguity, and to be honest, it's that quirkiness that has me hooked (that, and the Renesis). however, in my opinion (and that's all this is) they should have worked on it A LOT more before they released - even if it meant delays.

i have to agree with RIWWP about this. i agreed with just about everything other point you made, but this one is a bit too much to be taken seriously. while i agree some people may buy them because they're cute, and i may even go so far as to say when the first generation cars were released, many of them were probably bought on that basis, i have to say i doubt that that stands as the basis today.

i'd buy a Miata in a heartbeat and looks has nothing to do with why. they've built a reputation for being potent track weapons - while (as you already stated) as streetcars, they own their niche.

this is not a rebuttal so much as it's me just putting something out there that might hurt your point. peripheral ports, whether intake, exhaust or both are dead. and they are going to stay dead as far as production rotaries are concerned. i do agree that we need to get power to the street, the only question now is ... how - while meeting emissions, mileage and all the other stringent constraints of our current world?

i know some professionally raced Rx-8s retain the Renesis, but i honestly don't follow them close enough to speak intelligently on them. however, i do occasionally follow the Rx-8s that run 20Bs and i have a feeling that they make up the majority of the 8s kicking big-name, top-dollar *** on the tracks. so i think we can all agree, that if the street-trim 8s came with N/A 20B engines, we wouldn't be having this conversation. competitive power wouldn't be an issue.

TALAN7

I stand corrected and take back my "cute" remark regarding the Miata. Many do race them. My point was that the RX8 had expectations and that most people who buy Mx5s aren't buying them for stats like those buying many other performance cars but more for fun and feel. In this regard I think the Mx5 is one of the best of that type of car. The 8 or whatever rotary engined car that Mazda makes in the future needs to go further than the Mx5. It needs to have the fun factor and it needs to have the power to keep it viable in a market where muscle creep is everywhere, even at Hyundai.

TALAN7

It shouldn't be a muscle car though

oltmann

These might have been faster cars, but I'd have to shelve my fantasy about taking home three tall models.

diabolical1

well, it won't be the 8, but i completely agree with you! so i look to the future ...

****! you ain't kidding! i've been keeping my eye on those Genesis' for the past several months. in fact, my sister and i were recently at a McDonald's and one of them pulled out in front of us and i had to make sure to warn her that she shouldn't take them lightly (she has an Audi A4 and she sometimes likes to run it against others). they've come a long, long, LONG way since the original 1986 Excel.

tmak26b

Most people don't expect Mazda to be stupid enough to sell the same car with 8 years with barely any upgrades. If you don't care, more power to you.

Bigbacon

iTrader: (4)

Iswear my beat up 87 MR2 is faster than my 8 in a straight line but I hell, the sound the 8 makes just turning it on, that whirrrrr and then the hitting the limitier and getting my beep is enough to keep me going. being able to sling the car through anything and it not giving a crap is what makes it worth it.

I also like very firm suspension. I like to feel the road and it oddly, doesn't make me car sick like squishy car suspensions.

I will probably get a Miata or something similar when I get rid of the 8. I don't need a fast car, I just need something that handles the corners... thats where I get my joy.

fc2se

iTrader: (2)

I test drove a used BMW 128i before buying my used RX-8, and I liked the 128i a lot. It is a well refined and luxurious feeling car. However, I didn't find it especially more powerful than my RX-8, and it was more than double the price. The RX-8 is an intriguing combination of fun and practicality for the right people, and staying N/A was the safe route for Mazda to bring back the rotary in a production car. The Renesis' power is much better than my modified series 5 13 B non-turbo in my old RX-7, and unlike some people, I actually enjoy the swell in torque as the RPMs rise.

I wish Mazda had developed the 16x enough to put it in the S2 RX-8 (even if it only came in the R3). If so, I would have bought a new one instead of used. Unfortunately, the RX-8 has to live in the shadow of the FD RX-7 with its torquey 255 HP and extreme performance when modified.