Next Rotary A 16 X
10-23-2007, 03:17 AM
#76
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Well, didn't someone say a corvette makes max hp at 5900 rpm? Why does a corvette redline higher than 5900?
Delhi is right. The new rotary needs to redline higher than any other production car, and that means it has to stay around the 9000 rpm area. I don't care what it's doing at 9000 rpm, it could be shitting candy, but it better get there and be doing something there.
Delhi is right. The new rotary needs to redline higher than any other production car, and that means it has to stay around the 9000 rpm area. I don't care what it's doing at 9000 rpm, it could be shitting candy, but it better get there and be doing something there.
10-23-2007, 07:45 AM
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what kind of candy? how about donuts? I think that an engine should only redline 500 rpms more, and if you need it to redline higher down the line due to power adders then you can increase it, but other than that, i see no point in having a much higher redline than the peak hp, unless it really did **** out candy or donuts.
10-23-2007, 08:26 AM
#78
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Well, didn't someone say a corvette makes max hp at 5900 rpm? Why does a corvette redline higher than 5900?
Delhi is right. The new rotary needs to redline higher than any other production car, and that means it has to stay around the 9000 rpm area. I don't care what it's doing at 9000 rpm, it could be shitting candy, but it better get there and be doing something there.
Delhi is right. The new rotary needs to redline higher than any other production car, and that means it has to stay around the 9000 rpm area. I don't care what it's doing at 9000 rpm, it could be shitting candy, but it better get there and be doing something there.
This new engine is supposed to make more torque across the power band, which means it also should make more horsepower across the power band. If peak power is lower than 8500, then I doubt you'll see it redline at 9000. If it makes peak power at 7000, the redline will likely be 7500. We really just need to see where the power band is.
Think about your transmission too. What kind of transmission must we have to sustain a 9000 RPM redline (and higher actually because like others, I tend to bounce mine off the fuel cut every so often)? The automatic is limited by the transmission. There are plenty of cars that have more horsepower in an automatic, however, I don't know how many automatic transmissions rev to 9000 RPM. All I'm trying to get at is 9000+ RPM is awesome, but it's hard on the transmission as well as the bearings in the motor.
I love the fact that my car revs that high, but would I care if I could get a rotary that revved as easily to 7k as this one does to 9 and had more power across the entire line? No.
And I can understand saving a shift, but how often do you do rev the engine above 8500 to save a shift? First gear, that'd be like 37-38 mph (I honestly don't remember what speed I'm going in first at the top of the gear. I'm too busy trying to get a perfect shift to second) Second 64-67. Third 85-92.... On a track maybe, but daily driven? eek!
Last edited by Ajax; 10-23-2007 at 08:41 AM.
10-23-2007, 10:32 AM
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mazda's own people said they have 4 mayor points for the next rotary:
1- driving feel
2-power
3-economy
4- revs
thats directly from the mazda people, so I think the red line would remain the same, if it is lowered it will not be by a lot
another thing is that with the narrower rotors the ecentric shaft is shortter so there is going to be less flex as long as the rotors weight the same or less than the 13b ones
1- driving feel
2-power
3-economy
4- revs
thats directly from the mazda people, so I think the red line would remain the same, if it is lowered it will not be by a lot
another thing is that with the narrower rotors the ecentric shaft is shortter so there is going to be less flex as long as the rotors weight the same or less than the 13b ones
10-23-2007, 10:34 AM
#81
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racing beat has already shown that there is more power to be had in the renesis by raising the REV limit and then PROPERLY TUNING IT. remember we were all saying "there's no reason to raise the limit on the 8 because power is falling off before there anyway"? well Racing Beat killed that assumption. i hope Mazda does it again- gives us a 9k redline with power starting to fall off at 8200 so that we can play with the tuning , grab another 800rpm and 20 hp. after all if they(mazda) dont leave something on the table- where is the fun in that for the enthusiast?
10-23-2007, 12:18 PM
#83
even better, 300 rwhp, I do agree with you guys, the high rpms is nice and makes this car stand out, but having the low to mid range torque would be awesome, cause that is a lot of what the renesis needs, i just want to buy the engine and tranny, and throw it into my 8
I'm so grateful we have shops out here in British Columbia that specialize in the 20b Rotary engine and the like. Not to mention, our our knowledgeable club mechanics.
I'm dieing to hear the roar of this new Rotary Engine.
10-23-2007, 01:09 PM
#88
I hate to agree...but I doubt it will put out 300whp...
Still would be nice tho...
In other news...I think Chet was tortured as a boy in elementary school...I don't know why...call it a hunch...heh
Still would be nice tho...
In other news...I think Chet was tortured as a boy in elementary school...I don't know why...call it a hunch...heh
10-23-2007, 01:22 PM
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Winding Road has a bit on the 16X:
So if they are correct we'll see what 278hp at the crank? Not even close to enough.
Over the past weeks, a lot’s been written about Mazda’s new generation 16X rotary engine, which stars in the Mazda’s fabulously exotic Taiki Tokyo Show concept. But there hasn’t been too much actual sight of the engine itself. So here it is…
Pictured with rotary lead engineer Seiji Tashima at Mazda’s Yokohama R&D center, the bigger capacity two-rotor 16X RENESIS manages to be virtually as light and compact as the current 13B-MSP in the RX-8.
Instead of bolting on a couple of turbos, Mazda’s increased the size of the rotors and housing, giving a longer stroke and new 1600 cc capacity (800cc x 2).
With direct injection also on board, power and torque are both up 20 percent, yet the engine is also cleaner and of course designed to use less oil than today’s 13B.
Rotor housing and side housing are now aluminum and the new chamber design, plus direct injection are keys to improving the rotary’s notorious thirst.
Benchmarked against a conventional 3.0-liter V6, Mazda’s 16X is some ways away and it’s not clear yet whether Mazda will debut it a late version of the current RX-8, or wait for the next RX-8 which on current schedule isn’t due until 2011.
Pictured with rotary lead engineer Seiji Tashima at Mazda’s Yokohama R&D center, the bigger capacity two-rotor 16X RENESIS manages to be virtually as light and compact as the current 13B-MSP in the RX-8.
Instead of bolting on a couple of turbos, Mazda’s increased the size of the rotors and housing, giving a longer stroke and new 1600 cc capacity (800cc x 2).
With direct injection also on board, power and torque are both up 20 percent, yet the engine is also cleaner and of course designed to use less oil than today’s 13B.
Rotor housing and side housing are now aluminum and the new chamber design, plus direct injection are keys to improving the rotary’s notorious thirst.
Benchmarked against a conventional 3.0-liter V6, Mazda’s 16X is some ways away and it’s not clear yet whether Mazda will debut it a late version of the current RX-8, or wait for the next RX-8 which on current schedule isn’t due until 2011.
So if they are correct we'll see what 278hp at the crank? Not even close to enough.
10-23-2007, 01:43 PM
#92
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That sounds about where it should be. It should really fall somewhere between 270-280 hp and around 190-200 ft lbs of torque. That's easily more than enough to make most people happy and more than we could ever ask from a street legal rotary engine. If you want more you have 2 options, yet another even larger engine or forced induction.
10-23-2007, 02:14 PM
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very good numbers. The key to this is that this engine is as light and as compact.
I say this engine will be lighter fully dressed than a 13BMSP. However the reliability is a real question mark this time. Time will tell, the 13BMSP, architectural wise, is a very proven design and in theory very reliable (proven by quite a few on this board). I'd worry about hot spots on the aluminum plates, since they might not have looked into re-designing the coolant passages, possibly due to budget again, or other reasons.
I really hope they've made changes to more than just the housings and direct injection. I am curious if they've made changes to things like rotor weight, rotor dish geometry, cooling, eccentric shaft, etc.
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I say this engine will be lighter fully dressed than a 13BMSP. However the reliability is a real question mark this time. Time will tell, the 13BMSP, architectural wise, is a very proven design and in theory very reliable (proven by quite a few on this board). I'd worry about hot spots on the aluminum plates, since they might not have looked into re-designing the coolant passages, possibly due to budget again, or other reasons.
I really hope they've made changes to more than just the housings and direct injection. I am curious if they've made changes to things like rotor weight, rotor dish geometry, cooling, eccentric shaft, etc.
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Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 01:34 PM.
10-23-2007, 02:23 PM
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this engine is being developed with more time and $$$ than the renesis
it will be as light or lightter, one part may be that it is a 4 port engine acording to all the pics I have seeing
enlarge the pic
http://news.windingroad.com/car-buyi...s-16x-renesis/
it will be as light or lightter, one part may be that it is a 4 port engine acording to all the pics I have seeing
enlarge the pic
http://news.windingroad.com/car-buyi...s-16x-renesis/
Last edited by rotary crazy; 10-23-2007 at 02:26 PM.
10-23-2007, 02:34 PM
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Well, RC, that is the intermediate plate you are seeing....... the Renesis has 1 intake port there, the plate that is removed, is supposed to have 2.
I am sure you know that tho. Looking at the 1st 16X picture released, it clearly has two circular holes cut into the end plates.
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I am sure you know that tho. Looking at the 1st 16X picture released, it clearly has two circular holes cut into the end plates.
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Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 01:36 PM.
10-23-2007, 02:39 PM
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I hope we will get more details on this engine. Seems like its been all given away
1600cc, 20% power increase.. And while we all long to see the cut away model...... it really tells us nothing about dimensions! I hope they release info on the dimensions, and additional changes that they've done.
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1600cc, 20% power increase.. And while we all long to see the cut away model...... it really tells us nothing about dimensions! I hope they release info on the dimensions, and additional changes that they've done.
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Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 01:36 PM.