MX-5 and RX-8 could merge
12-04-2011, 11:29 PM
#26
Valid point about the section. The other is in RX-8 Discussion though, which is worse. 
No, if Mazda does not have a rotary being created by a factory during the 2013 calendar year, it will be the first year Mazda has ever "been without a rotary" since they first started.
From 1994 to 2004, the RX-7 was still being produced and evolved in Japan.
So it basically means that Mazda has 393 days left to either roll the next RX off the assembly line, roll off a Miata variant with a Renesis 2 (which could be their thought process for the "merging", just to keep their streak alive), or do another very limited run of the RX-8 (even if just in Japan, just to keep their streak alive).
No, if Mazda does not have a rotary being created by a factory during the 2013 calendar year, it will be the first year Mazda has ever "been without a rotary" since they first started.
From 1994 to 2004, the RX-7 was still being produced and evolved in Japan.
So it basically means that Mazda has 393 days left to either roll the next RX off the assembly line, roll off a Miata variant with a Renesis 2 (which could be their thought process for the "merging", just to keep their streak alive), or do another very limited run of the RX-8 (even if just in Japan, just to keep their streak alive).
Are the Hydrogen RE Premacy's still being produced and leased?
12-05-2011, 08:28 PM
#28
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I'm a big fan of the RE in a Miata body. If Mazda made one now, I'd buy it. Let's face it: high power/weight ratio is the only real advantage the rotary brings to the party. The lighter the car you stuff it in, the better.
Also, I just went to the LA auto show. I sat in a lot of cars I couldn't afford, but somehow sitting in the MX-5 felt the best. Seriously.
Also, I just went to the LA auto show. I sat in a lot of cars I couldn't afford, but somehow sitting in the MX-5 felt the best. Seriously.
12-08-2011, 10:40 AM
#29
You guys are missing what the original RX7's were about. They weren't about space and being practical. They were amazing handling sports cars that the average guy could afford. I see what he is saying is going right back to that strategy. The Rx8 is a great car but it is too heavy and bulky for the Renesis IMO and this is the reason everyone wants more power. I have wanted to pick up one of the hard top miatas and drop a Renesis in there for some time.
I give the idea a
I give the idea a
12-08-2011, 11:43 AM
#31
You guys are missing what the original RX7's were about. They weren't about space and being practical. They were amazing handling sports cars that the average guy could afford. I see what he is saying is going right back to that strategy. The Rx8 is a great car but it is too heavy and bulky for the Renesis IMO and this is the reason everyone wants more power. I have wanted to pick up one of the hard top miatas and drop a Renesis in there for some time.
I give the idea a
I give the idea a
12-08-2011, 12:50 PM
#32
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I think a mazdaspeed RX variant of the MX5 would be a great way to continue the rotary without very much development cost. Especialy if they hit their weight goals for the next MX5... 230 hp in a sub 2200lb car... And that is just if they put the S2 renesis in it. they can offer a 180 hp skyactiv 4 and then the renny. if they only sell a few thousand RX versions in the USA that shouldn't hit ther CAFE very much at all with all the other new SA cars. The renny should get in the low to mid 20's mpg easy in a 800 lb lighter car.
12-08-2011, 06:21 PM
#33
If it's the only viable, profitable solution right now do it. I like the practical nature of the RX8. It has come in handly, but in sheer honesty, I've always wanted a two seater. It's the only way to get the full potential of a rotary engine. If I can only take it out from time to time with the Mrs then so be it. It will make it that much more fun.
12-09-2011, 12:23 AM
#34
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As much fun as it would be to drive and own, I and a <2 year old and a 2 seater isn't in my future for at least 16 years. I'll be holding on to my 8, and hope Mazda can eventually find a business case for a successor to the 8. Does feel great that the engine is alive and well though.
12-10-2011, 09:06 AM
#35
Unless something drastically changes a rotary engine will never be popular with the masses now, just racers and oddballs. It already had a bad street rep before Mazda kicked themselves in the nuts with the Renesis fiasco. This was after all the hype and touting of the next generation for all the years when it was out of production, no diffeent than you have already seen with the 16x. The RX-8 chassis gets nothing but praise and admiration. The vehicle itself is not the issue. Had the rotary engine performed as promised and been reliable the end result would have been much different. Past tradition may have been a 2-seater, but that went down the toilet over time too. Enthusiasts are looking through rose colored glasses that the general population doesn't wear.
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Last edited by TeamRX8; 12-10-2011 at 09:13 AM.
12-10-2011, 09:15 AM
#36
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I disagree with that Team. Yes, there is certainly a portion of the population that knows of the history of the RX-7s and now RX-8s. There is another portion that knows of the RX-8 history, but not really the RX-7 history.
And we have daily proof that there are plenty of people who don't even know about the RX-8's history, as recent and current as it is.
As time passes, more and more people enter the license pool that are not impacted by the negative side of rotary history. There IS a mass market there, and it only grows as the years pass. Never major, but hardly small.
And we have daily proof that there are plenty of people who don't even know about the RX-8's history, as recent and current as it is.
As time passes, more and more people enter the license pool that are not impacted by the negative side of rotary history. There IS a mass market there, and it only grows as the years pass. Never major, but hardly small.
12-10-2011, 08:06 PM
#37
But then someone does research or asks a friend of a friend...
Say someone comes across the RX series of cars and becomes a little interested. They see it has a different engine design than most and want to know more about it... any search for a specific aspect of the performance will yield a lot of the generic, negative views of the engine. You can find some reasonably accurate information, but a lot of the results for searches like "rotary engine reliability" or "rotary fuel economy" aren't exactly flattering.
The rotary engine is, in some ways, like the mustang's live axle or corvette's leaf springs. People ("haters") love to complain about those "flaws" without any care as to how the vehicle actually performs. A lot of people will just accept "but it's got a rotary" as a legitimate problem without caring why that's a bad thing.
Say someone comes across the RX series of cars and becomes a little interested. They see it has a different engine design than most and want to know more about it... any search for a specific aspect of the performance will yield a lot of the generic, negative views of the engine. You can find some reasonably accurate information, but a lot of the results for searches like "rotary engine reliability" or "rotary fuel economy" aren't exactly flattering.
The rotary engine is, in some ways, like the mustang's live axle or corvette's leaf springs. People ("haters") love to complain about those "flaws" without any care as to how the vehicle actually performs. A lot of people will just accept "but it's got a rotary" as a legitimate problem without caring why that's a bad thing.
12-11-2011, 01:13 AM
#38
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12-11-2011, 02:07 AM
#39
^Driving one might change their opinions about the "negative stereotypes" about performance, but not necessarily reliability and fuel economy concerns.
Aside for those not concerned about the potential costs, you'd have to be a bit of a "risk taker" to completely ignore factors like reliability and fuel economy. Sure, it should be understood that there are some inherent sacrifices to driving a sports car, but those sacrifices will generally have acceptable limits and will be compared to the comparable alternatives. If I hadn't taken the time to do proper research and only glanced at the basic comments for the Nissan Z cars and Mazda's RX cars, I very easily could have ended up in a Z.
I was fortunate enough to have the 8 as my first car, and I knew I needed to know plenty about it in order to sell the idea to my parents. My Dad was also doing research, since I had shown interest in the car, and he saw a lot of the common complaints. I had done a lot more reading on the car and had to show him some of the various sources I found in order to convince him that the issues were exaggerated. To me, that's a great example of the difference between a quick search and in-depth research. With the amount of repeat threads we get here, I think more people favor the "quick answer" than the detailed answer.
Aside for those not concerned about the potential costs, you'd have to be a bit of a "risk taker" to completely ignore factors like reliability and fuel economy. Sure, it should be understood that there are some inherent sacrifices to driving a sports car, but those sacrifices will generally have acceptable limits and will be compared to the comparable alternatives. If I hadn't taken the time to do proper research and only glanced at the basic comments for the Nissan Z cars and Mazda's RX cars, I very easily could have ended up in a Z.
I was fortunate enough to have the 8 as my first car, and I knew I needed to know plenty about it in order to sell the idea to my parents. My Dad was also doing research, since I had shown interest in the car, and he saw a lot of the common complaints. I had done a lot more reading on the car and had to show him some of the various sources I found in order to convince him that the issues were exaggerated. To me, that's a great example of the difference between a quick search and in-depth research. With the amount of repeat threads we get here, I think more people favor the "quick answer" than the detailed answer.
12-11-2011, 11:16 AM
#40
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I would miss the Rotory as well, I had thought about what if you can take the MX5 engine and install is into the RX8, hmmm it would be a MX8 then huh lol, but since it shares the same Chasis it could work rather well in an RX8. It would be interesting swap. May have to go this route if the GOVERMENT places stricter Smog regulation like they did in Europe. I still want a 20B 3 Rotory!!!!
Last edited by Deathwatch; 12-11-2011 at 11:21 AM.
12-11-2011, 02:27 PM
#43
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12-14-2011, 08:58 AM
#45
rotary in the mx5 would sell? here is how I see it.
1- the 16X will have more power and Tq--in the mx5 it would be on par with mid range performance cars that are now being sold and WAY ahead of the new Toyota/Subaru model.
2- In it's NA form--the Rennie is really a pretty stout engine. Think about it. Yea some c/o of lost power--but the car was still running well? Right? I do know that in The Ga club many, many 8's have thousands of miles on the track and thousands of miles on the road and the engine keeps going--yes it does lose a little power, but it keeps going. We have one that has over 100K on the engine and it is still tracking.
3- This combo would fit into the "lightness" movement by Mazda. Not that the Rennie is that much lighter ( if any) than the one it replaces, but the general perception ( which is almost as important) is that it is.
4- with the right gearing and lighter weight--gas milage would improve to acceptable.
5- Really --WHATS NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THIS. WAKE UP MAZDA!!
1- the 16X will have more power and Tq--in the mx5 it would be on par with mid range performance cars that are now being sold and WAY ahead of the new Toyota/Subaru model.
2- In it's NA form--the Rennie is really a pretty stout engine. Think about it. Yea some c/o of lost power--but the car was still running well? Right? I do know that in The Ga club many, many 8's have thousands of miles on the track and thousands of miles on the road and the engine keeps going--yes it does lose a little power, but it keeps going. We have one that has over 100K on the engine and it is still tracking.
3- This combo would fit into the "lightness" movement by Mazda. Not that the Rennie is that much lighter ( if any) than the one it replaces, but the general perception ( which is almost as important) is that it is.
4- with the right gearing and lighter weight--gas milage would improve to acceptable.
5- Really --WHATS NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THIS. WAKE UP MAZDA!!
12-14-2011, 09:24 AM
#46
Momentum Keeps Me Going
^+1
But I firmly believe Mazda thinks it knows better than any of us what we want and what we should be able to buy from them. It must be something in the Japanese corporate culture, not taking foreign countries customer's advice, but who knows. Granted, they did the above one off, but it certainly didn't get far, as appealing as it looks to many here. The RX-5 would really be off the deep end given that senario.
For example, I can't recall even the smallest shout out (or the loud ones too) to Mazda from the 9 yrs I've been on this forum for some suggestion for change or update or improvement for the RX-8 that has resulted in something showing up in the production car. They seem to ONLY act on service or reliability issues, whereas customer request of any type simply fall on deaf ears for all intents and purposes.
Currently, their problem argueably is size and money. They just don't have the wherewithall to try different potentially low volume cars out on the world when their financial resources are so stretched and strained. They are struggling to revamp their cashcow cars into vehicles that can refill the corporation's empty bank accounts. But that hasn't always been a problem, and still little evidence exists they act on customer input. I guess you just have to accept them for what they are and how they do their business. Frustrating though...
But I firmly believe Mazda thinks it knows better than any of us what we want and what we should be able to buy from them. It must be something in the Japanese corporate culture, not taking foreign countries customer's advice, but who knows. Granted, they did the above one off, but it certainly didn't get far, as appealing as it looks to many here. The RX-5 would really be off the deep end given that senario.
For example, I can't recall even the smallest shout out (or the loud ones too) to Mazda from the 9 yrs I've been on this forum for some suggestion for change or update or improvement for the RX-8 that has resulted in something showing up in the production car. They seem to ONLY act on service or reliability issues, whereas customer request of any type simply fall on deaf ears for all intents and purposes.
Currently, their problem argueably is size and money. They just don't have the wherewithall to try different potentially low volume cars out on the world when their financial resources are so stretched and strained. They are struggling to revamp their cashcow cars into vehicles that can refill the corporation's empty bank accounts. But that hasn't always been a problem, and still little evidence exists they act on customer input. I guess you just have to accept them for what they are and how they do their business. Frustrating though...
12-14-2011, 09:41 AM
#47
good point--but Mazda is going to have to rescend their "ZOOM-ZOOM" philosopy. The surrent cars being offered now (sans the mazdaspeed 3) just does not fit. The public will start laughing at Zoom-Zoom.
Chassis tossability only goes so far--even for the icon MX5. And imo the MX5 is starting to lose appeal. Add that to the direct competition of the new Toyota and Subaru models and their icon may get into some real trouble. I would hate to see that.
Chassis tossability only goes so far--even for the icon MX5. And imo the MX5 is starting to lose appeal. Add that to the direct competition of the new Toyota and Subaru models and their icon may get into some real trouble. I would hate to see that.
12-14-2011, 01:22 PM
#48
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Exact. Their 'zoom-zoom' philosophy has been trumped by other manuafcturers offerings. The MX-5 is weak IMO, old school, low power, and not edgy at all...but to some it still has appeal like that. Zoom-zoom still has some meaning in their SUV offerings compared to others, but that's about it. It's becoming more marketing than fact certainly.
I've said before, the Toyota-ization of Mazda is well along... while the Mazda-ization of Toyota/Lexus is before our eyes. Bizzaro world.
I've said before, the Toyota-ization of Mazda is well along... while the Mazda-ization of Toyota/Lexus is before our eyes. Bizzaro world.
12-16-2011, 04:58 PM
#50
Super Moderator
What's this hate on the Miata...I guess most of the guys on here "hate" it because you are too large or too tall to fit in it...that is not the car's problem, that is Your problem .
I am loving my 5 with top down...nothing like it (summer here), my 8 will now be my winter car....We don't get snow where I am...but I still wish it had a Rotary Engine.
Did anyone ever drive the factory RX-7 FC Convertible..??..did not think so.
A rotary convertible would be bloody fantastic....!!
.I am loving my 5 with top down...nothing like it (summer here), my 8 will now be my winter car....We don't get snow where I am...but I still wish it had a Rotary Engine.
Did anyone ever drive the factory RX-7 FC Convertible..??..did not think so.
A rotary convertible would be bloody fantastic....!!