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Mazda rotary shock: MX-5 and RX-8 could merge
By Jez Spinks | November 30th, 2011

The global boss of Mazda has made a stunning revelation at the 2011 Tokyo motor show that the company could merge its MX-5 roadster and RX-8 replacement into one single sports car.

Takashi Yamanouchi told a small group of Australian journalists at the show that a rotary-powered MX-5 is also a possibility for the future as Mazda considered its options for its trademark piston-less powerplant.

The company’s current rotary-powered RX-8 four-door coupe – which actually shares its chassis with the MX-5 – ceases production in June 2012, leaving Mazda with a gap to fill within the next few years.

“Production of the RX-8 does stop in 2012 but what comes after that I’m not in a position to say,” said Yamanouchi-san. “But I have been saying everywhere that we will continue research on the rotary engine. We will not extinguish the flame of the rotary engine.

“That kind of product is iconic for our brand. So the current MX-5 or RX-8 we have decided in the future to maintain that type of [sports car] product.

“I can’t say, however, that they will be separate … they may be merged into one.

“[We] can’t rule out the possibility [of a rotary-powered MX-5].”

The next-generation MX-5 due in 2013 is expected to be powered by a conventional four-cylinder engine under the ‘SkyActiv’ banner – Mazda’s name for its new suite of technologies designed to improve fuel efficiency.

A replacement for the RX-8 still seems much further away, whether Mazda decides to combine the coupe and MX-5 roadster into one model – with a hardtop coupe-convertible similar to the Mercedes-Benz SLK or BMW Z4 one possibility.

Mazda is also yet to determine whether the next-generation rotary engine would continue as a conventional combustion engine or work in tandem with other power sources.

“I think there are two major directions we are discussing [for rotary]. One is the application of the rotary as a conventional powerplant,” said Yamanouchi-san.

“We need a measure a plan to upgrade the [fuel] efficiency and torque [of the engine] otherwise we don’t see much progress [from the current rotary in the RX-8].

But the other option is a range-extender [rotary] powered by hydrogen. Our government agencies are already using it [as a prototype] – and it emits only steam. Rotary is used solely to produce the power.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/149215/m...8-could-merge/

wcs

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure you've seen all the other posts talking about this ...
I think it will be a sad day.

I know there are a lot of MX5 fans (Ash8) out there, but I can't stand the MX5 (hate).
And I can't be convinced to like it either.

I'm not trying to **** the MX5 guys off ... it's just how I feel about it, full stop

I really hope this doesn't happen, I would rather see the rotary come to an end.

Ometta

I don't think many MX-5 guys would bother picking up the rotary engine if it was available as an option. Many people buy the MX-5 because it's sporty and reliable. I think most people out there are terrified of the rotory engine.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Repost, though at least this one is in the correct subforum

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...96#post4136396



wcs, don't get too 'locked in' on your opinion. "Merging" them could mean something as simple as 2 engine options for the Miata (which the Miata guys hate just as much as we do, which is to say half are for it and half against it) , or it could be basically the same way that the Mazda5 and Mazda3 are "merged". Same chassis, same engine, same transmission, but entirely 2 different cars that no one confuses as the same.

Easily enough to make a permanent hardtop, different skin, perhaps even a slight wheelbase stretch, and it's two totally different cars that in Mazda's design eyes are "merged."


Too many ways to do it and I can't believe you would be against all of them.


And on top of that, if you strip out the magazine's theorizing, you aren't actually left with much information, and even then it's a "we can't rule out the possibility", not "this is going to happen."

And then there is the fact that the NC Miata was the test platform for the Renesis engine pre-RX-8 anyway. The two cars are already quite similar under the skin.

Edited to stripe out the [added comments], which, while possibly accurate, are still magazine added comments, and subject to their interpretation. For example he says "merged", not "rotary powered MX-5", and he only says "don't see much progress", and has not provided any baseline from which they are attempting to progress. The Magazine assumes it to be the RX-8's Renesis, but it could easily be a "skyactive 16x with 300hp but poor emissions." Unless we know where they currently are, and what goals they are actually trying to hit, we can't actually use the "don't see much progress." It's possible that WE would be happy with where they are right now, just the government regulations aren't, or they aren't, etc....

wcs

iTrader: (2)

Ok well if you put it that way ...

Why do you gotta be like that

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Accuracy and clarity of communication

The magazines are over-reacting, and spewing stuff that makes other people overreact...


I re-edited the quote of what he said further distilling it to what he actually said.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

Which one are you saying is in the correct section? If you ask me, it should be in the general auto section, since it isn't media news or discussion about the RX-8. Though, I would say that I think the idea of a Mazda Media News section would be a better choice at this point... the RX-8 media is only going to decline with time now.

As for the merger, I like the idea. I can't say I'm a huge fan of the Miata... it's a great car and I respect it, but I'm not sure it would really fit what I'd want out of a car at this point. That said, any continuation of the rotary engine is good news to me. If Mazda doesn't feel ready to develop an entire new platform, that means that it would be delayed until they are ready. If those delays happen, it might slow the development of the rotary... They aren't going to dedicate a lot of resources to something that wont be making money for a while. If they put the engine in a platform that was already planned, it saves all of those additional costs and means that the rotary would get some sales. At least it would be seeing some profits at that point, which means a higher chance of development resources.

I know this wouldn't be the first time Mazda has gone a while without a rotary car. Every time that happens, there's always the possibility that it wont make it back to production vehicles. Aside from any massive failures, continuous use of the engine should increase the likelihood that the engine will stay around.

Speed_8

I too think its a great idea, since i'll save the company some cash, however the only issue I see is the size the car will be. The miata would have to be bigger, unless they make the new rx roughly the size of the old rx7 and leave out the back seats ( which i like ) then i'll only be a hard top MX5. The whole emissions deal pisses me off, the amount of trucks and bus' out there that pollute the air is staggering compared to the amount of rotaries out there. Even if the new rx comes out.. I may just purchase the new engine and put it in my rx8 ( depending on cost )

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Valid point about the section. The other is in RX-8 Discussion though, which is worse.


No, if Mazda does not have a rotary being created by a factory during the 2013 calendar year, it will be the first year Mazda has ever "been without a rotary" since they first started.

From 1994 to 2004, the RX-7 was still being produced and evolved in Japan.

So it basically means that Mazda has 393 days left to either roll the next RX off the assembly line, roll off a Miata variant with a Renesis 2 (which could be their thought process for the "merging", just to keep their streak alive), or do another very limited run of the RX-8 (even if just in Japan, just to keep their streak alive).

Old Rotor

Just do it mazda we will buy....

comebackqid

iTrader: (13)

I'm still hoping to see that revamped renesis making 330+hp N/A,/turbo would be nice too though, just hoping they get something together before the clock runs down.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

Last time I checked, the RX-7 ended production in 2002. A quick check on wikipedia and RX-7 club confirms that.

The 16X wasn't really a revamped Renesis. It was more of a complete redesign. Assuming the 16X is what you're talking about, I wouldn't get your hopes up. If I remember correctly, some people with good information have said that the 16X pretty much didn't work out and there's not a huge hope to see it any time soon.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Did you also see where the RX-8 first rolled out of the factory in 2003?

I had my years off by 1, but my statement of continual rotary production in each year still stands.

Supernaut6

Holy repost...

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/mx-5-rx-8-could-merge-226043/

I'm glad this one is in the right section at least!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Can I call "repost on saying it's a repost" ?

vv

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

I loved to see Mazda merge the two cars. Especially if they released a MX-5 Coupe.

Old Rotor

RX-5

Supernaut6

Well played good sir. My anger has blinded me.

Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

They could call it the RX-5 Miata Cosmo

monchie

Mx-8

7andan8

I'm not sure why anyone would feel this way, as though you were one of the designers and corporate was taking your baby away from you. ??

I envision a variant like Honda's S2000 hardtop. Almost looks like a different car with the hardtop! And it's much better looking in my opinion. So, a slightly tweaked MX-5, with that wonderful rotary sound, I'm interested.

Spin9k

I see the idea they will merge (MX-5 / RX-5) virtually and practically impossible and highly improbable.. and specificly a "bad idea". If they want a wide range of buyers - and considering the size people are generally, the MX-5 can't shrink much in order for even a minority of potential buyers to even fit in it. If it does shrink, buyers will shy away due to its size and perceived safety moreso than now already. Put a rotary in it and yet another off-putting factor will further decrease sales. That's not in Mazda's best interest to be sure.

Beyond that there's a tipping point of uselessness that the MX-5 is certainly on the wrong side already of in the mind of the public, if not entirely in fact. I can put $hitloads of crap, bulky purchases, gear for a trip for two or more, track tires, whatever, in an RX-8 and still drive comfortably. People are amazed, and tell me so... so the public even thinks of an RX-8 sized car as 'very small', right or wrong.

So to me (not the general public) an RX-8 is a compact useful normal car, that just happens to be a boatload of fun,....but more important, doesn't look the part and is still relatively lightweight. The MX-5, not so much, in fact even I don't consider it a 'normal car', but rather a toy car, useful for basically top-down fun, and I doubt I'm alone. No one want to see the rotary degraded to an option on another car that few buy anyway.

At a minimum, the new GT-86 /FR-S / BRZ size car (into which 4 track tires fit by design of Toyota), basically a MX-5 2+2 would be the absolute minimum size 'normal' car possible for Mazda to merge the cars into. Then where would that leave the roadster? Well they'd be two different car models, at least to the public. And so....

pking1122

Maybe Mazda plans to diversify both platforms with RX and MX variants. It seems they would sell more rotaries if they had a 2 seat light weight option to satisfy the hard core enthusiasts as well as more 2+2 chassis' if there was a turbo piston variant. I always thought one of the biggest hindrances of Mazda was a lack of engine options to appeal to different buyers, and maybe they plan to zero in on that going forward. That seems like a logical 'merger' of the MX-5 and RX-8 as opposed to the MX-5 simply taking the soul of the RX-8.

ArXate

It's an idea like many ideas out there, and if this idea can get the rotary back on the market, then I think it's a good idea.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Didnt work out when they solved 2 of the 3 fundemental problem already?

You need to update ur info