Mazda halts rotary engine development (?)
08-09-2011, 08:53 PM
#26
Thanks for putting into words what was in my head lol.
And yes Hyundai IS doing something right. But Hyundai dealers barely make anything off the cars they sell. They sell the car for a very small amount above manufacturing costs. Which is why you get great quality for so cheap. But what they lose in immediate profit they make up in the quantity they sell. And they sell A LOT.
And yes Hyundai IS doing something right. But Hyundai dealers barely make anything off the cars they sell. They sell the car for a very small amount above manufacturing costs. Which is why you get great quality for so cheap. But what they lose in immediate profit they make up in the quantity they sell. And they sell A LOT.
I was about to get a Genesis but instead of that I got the Sonata Hybrid instead. and seriously, both cars are WAY out of my expectation. It's much BETTER in quality and style than ANY equal or slightly higher priced car. In the case of Genesis, it actually better than BMW 3 series.
picked the Sonata at the end simply because it's probably one of the most fuel efficient car in it's class AND it's good looking enough for my needs (Client car)
I did notice that ever since Ford is out of the management, Mazda starts "evolving," their target market has been changed, from trying to get whatever left overs are out there to a much more aggressive position.
You are all missing out on one reality.....
Imported Cars and anything imported will continue to rise in price...more substantially than recent years..
With a possible QE3 in the pipeline, 0% interest rates for another 2 years.
It will take some time before a $40K car is seen as "value" in the US.
Mazda has already flagged that they are going up market in the US, code for more expensive.
Your currency dictates what will happen, and all Japanese brands are in the same boat.
Mazda more than anyone.
Even more, I just still can not see WHERE Mazda will have a market for a new Rotary outside of Japan, there are just too many hurdles to jump over.
'IF' they fix Emissions...then they have MPG (Cafe)...
Hybrids, Range Extenders...ALL adds weight..again NOT what Mazda is about.
Now Mazda are "waiting" for breakthrough technology to be invented???
All I keep hearing are PUSH out dates for ANY new Rotray...now 2017...another 6 YEARS!!..
IMO..none of this gives me any confidence...unfortunately.
Imported Cars and anything imported will continue to rise in price...more substantially than recent years..
With a possible QE3 in the pipeline, 0% interest rates for another 2 years.
It will take some time before a $40K car is seen as "value" in the US.
Mazda has already flagged that they are going up market in the US, code for more expensive.
Your currency dictates what will happen, and all Japanese brands are in the same boat.
Mazda more than anyone.
Even more, I just still can not see WHERE Mazda will have a market for a new Rotary outside of Japan, there are just too many hurdles to jump over.
'IF' they fix Emissions...then they have MPG (Cafe)...
Hybrids, Range Extenders...ALL adds weight..again NOT what Mazda is about.
Now Mazda are "waiting" for breakthrough technology to be invented???
All I keep hearing are PUSH out dates for ANY new Rotray...now 2017...another 6 YEARS!!..
IMO..none of this gives me any confidence...unfortunately.
that's why they need to make sure they have enough revenue before they would try their next rotary project. they need the money to try new project/production line.
2c - the MX-5 IS too expensive as-is. Stock, it can't beat much of anything around a track. Fun it may be, but so is the RX-8. And stock, the 8 can't beat much of anything around a track either. In both cases, it's the engine that's both a joy and the biggest flaw. Simply put, Mazda has crippled both at birth with not enough power. On the street, both have their pleasures, and probably the MX-8 stands out more for it fair weather, top down attribute, but for Mazda to charge much north of 30K, some aspect has got to stand out more to the average performance oriented everyday buyer.
In short, Mazda has to make cars so that average, non enthusiast buyers can get hooked before they can charge premium prices.
In short, Mazda has to make cars so that average, non enthusiast buyers can get hooked before they can charge premium prices.
but I do agreed that about the hp part, they really should try to get more HP first.
Last edited by nycgps; 08-09-2011 at 08:57 PM.
08-09-2011, 10:05 PM
#27
Administrator
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-media-news-11/good-news-us-rotary-fans-221208/
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-media-news-11/mazda-still-has-plans-rotary-engines-221399/
08-09-2011, 10:22 PM
#28
the same interview that led to this article also led to other articles about Mazda continuing with the rotary. just look in this section of the forum a couple threads already covering that spin
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=221208
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=221399
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=221208
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=221399
I will believe it ONLY if Mazda release an official statement saying "We will no longer produce Rotary Engines."
08-10-2011, 12:07 AM
#29
Super Moderator
Mazda halts rotary engine development
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11108093...ne-development
Well this does not look "Good"....
Could be put on the chopping block
It's a sad day for fans of the rotary engine as Kiyoshi Fujiwara, Mazda's executive officer of product planning and powertrain development, has told Ward's Auto there is a "huge discussion" about the future of the unique powerplant.
While the engine hasn't been axed altogether, Fujiwara said current economic conditions have forced the company to re-evaluate several programs and the rotary engine is one of the things that could hit the chopping block. For the time being, the company has halted development of the engine and will focus on new SKYACTIV technologies.
Despite the challenges, Fujiwara contends rotary engines "are part of our soul" and the company has solved two of the three fundamental problems that have plagued the engine since it was originally developed. He wouldn't go into specifics, but said if SKYACTIV technologies become successful "We [can] get money to invest in [the] rotary engine."
Well this does not look "Good"....
Could be put on the chopping block
It's a sad day for fans of the rotary engine as Kiyoshi Fujiwara, Mazda's executive officer of product planning and powertrain development, has told Ward's Auto there is a "huge discussion" about the future of the unique powerplant.
While the engine hasn't been axed altogether, Fujiwara said current economic conditions have forced the company to re-evaluate several programs and the rotary engine is one of the things that could hit the chopping block. For the time being, the company has halted development of the engine and will focus on new SKYACTIV technologies.
Despite the challenges, Fujiwara contends rotary engines "are part of our soul" and the company has solved two of the three fundamental problems that have plagued the engine since it was originally developed. He wouldn't go into specifics, but said if SKYACTIV technologies become successful "We [can] get money to invest in [the] rotary engine."
08-10-2011, 12:12 AM
#30
Super Moderator
I wonder WHAT the 3 Fundamental Problems are or were....
Any guesses????
1. Fuel Economy....??...given me thinks..
2. Emissions...???...probably done.. both #1 and #2 with the use of Laser Ignition..
3. Performance or HP????...not with the 16X???
Probably me thinks the #3 could also be COST..."new" Laser Technology perhaps is too much "cost" wise??
Any guesses????
1. Fuel Economy....??...given me thinks..
2. Emissions...???...probably done.. both #1 and #2 with the use of Laser Ignition..
3. Performance or HP????...not with the 16X???
Probably me thinks the #3 could also be COST..."new" Laser Technology perhaps is too much "cost" wise??
08-10-2011, 12:26 AM
#31
Super Moderator
I did notice that ever since Ford is out of the management, Mazda starts "evolving," their target market has been changed, from trying to get whatever left overs are out there to a much more aggressive position.
I'm pretty sure they have solved the emission issue already. cuz if I'm Mazda, that would be my first and top priority. but even so, if it's me I wouldn't be so confident about the sales, just because people are good at remembering "bad" stuff, even it has been completely different from the original "Bad" product.
I'm pretty sure they have solved the emission issue already. cuz if I'm Mazda, that would be my first and top priority. but even so, if it's me I wouldn't be so confident about the sales, just because people are good at remembering "bad" stuff, even it has been completely different from the original "Bad" product.
The problem IS Mazda (FORD I blame) have burnt ANY good will they had with the NEW Generation of Rotorheads...IMO Fords penny pinching in getting the RX-8 out in production in a hurry..
Really the No Middle Apex Seal Lube Nozzle was a BAD error and cost cutter...
and low Oil Pressure (using a FC Oil Pump) Mazda has NEVER not had a centre oil luber since they Fuel Injected Rotaries...and I just don't like the 5W20 Engine Oil..
I won't even use it in my MX-5, a minimum of 5W30 preferably XXW40...again, YES oil technology has advanced BUT, again IMO not with engines which are 30 and 12 years old (MZR)...Oil is ahead of these 'old' engines..
BUT, IMO SKYACTIV engines will be OK with a 5W20...I hope.
08-10-2011, 02:15 AM
#32
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I wonder WHAT the 3 Fundamental Problems are or were....
Any guesses????
1. Fuel Economy....??...given me thinks..
2. Emissions...???...probably done.. both #1 and #2 with the use of Laser Ignition..
3. Performance or HP????...not with the 16X???
Probably me thinks the #3 could also be COST..."new" Laser Technology perhaps is too much "cost" wise??
Any guesses????
1. Fuel Economy....??...given me thinks..
2. Emissions...???...probably done.. both #1 and #2 with the use of Laser Ignition..
3. Performance or HP????...not with the 16X???
Probably me thinks the #3 could also be COST..."new" Laser Technology perhaps is too much "cost" wise??
Fuel Ecomomy, Emissions, and heat.
08-10-2011, 02:54 AM
#34
But Hyundai dealers barely make anything off the cars they sell. They sell the car for a very small amount above manufacturing costs. Which is why you get great quality for so cheap. But what they lose in immediate profit they make up in the quantity they sell. And they sell A LOT.
The new Tucson and Elantra for example. Both getting top notch reviews in terms of style, performance, features, quality, and most importantly - value. One of the many examples, If you look closely at the pillars, you can see what seems to be black paint, are actually layered black vinyl. This saves them the cost of separated painting. Another example, but for the interior. All TOUCH POINTS are nicely padded with either soft plastics or faux-leather. The headliner is thin wax paper like material, but no one would notice since it is not a touch point, nor would anyone look up and compare headliners. The non-touch points are all cheaply molded hard plastics, which would not matter since it is not seen and/or touched. The sunshade mirror light is a manual switch, compared to a relay. If you have also noticed, none of their cars handle particularly well when compared with other in their classes, but that is irrelevant to the interest of their buyers.
Also take into consideration that they sell an amazingly large volume, which irons out their lack of profit even if they did have trouble profiting off their cars they manufacture (which is not something Hyundai nor their dealers are having trouble with). I am sure their marketing strategy with their warranty and job-loss buy back help their sales also. This year, they have sold more cars in the U.S. than all of European cars combined. Hell, they even sold more cars than Nissan. Their new factory in the U.S. actually pays less than all the other car manufacturers with factories in the U.S., taking an impact on all major brands, even the Japanese, BMW and VW since they have factories in the U.S. too.
Last edited by SayNoToPistons; 08-10-2011 at 02:58 PM.
08-10-2011, 09:39 AM
#38
I believe they are making a profit. They sell for as near MSRP as any other import manufacture with a run of the mill car (we are not talking about GT-R/BOSS/1-M mark up). Having checked out the cars of Hyundai; I can tell where they have cut cost of material and manufacturing. It is almost unnoticeable for us, and most definitely unnoticeable for the general public.
The new Tucson and Elantra for example. Both getting touch notch reviews in terms of style, performance, features, quality, and most importantly - value. One of the many examples, If you look closely at the pillars, you can see what seems to be black paint, are actually layered black vinyl. This saves them the cost of separated painting. Another example, but for the interior. All TOUCH POINTS are nicely padded with either soft plastics or faux-leather. The headliner is thin wax paper like material, but no one would notice since it is not a touch point, nor would anyone look up and compare headliners. The non-touch points are all cheaply molded hard plastics, which would not matter since it is not seen and/or touched. The sunshade mirror light is a manual switch, compared to a relay. If you have also noticed, none of their cars handle particularly well when compared with other in their classes, but that is irrelevant to the interest of their buyers.
Also take into consideration that they sell an amazingly large volume, which irons out their lack of profit even if they did have trouble profiting off their cars they manufacture (which is not something Hyundai nor their dealers are having trouble with). I am sure their marketing strategy with their warranty and job-loss buy back help their sales also. This year, they have sold more cars in the U.S. than all of European cars combined. Hell, they even sold more cars than Nissan. Their new factory in the U.S. actually pays less than all the other car manufacturers with factories in the U.S., taking an impact on all major brands, even the Japanese, BMW and VW since they have factories in the U.S. too.
The new Tucson and Elantra for example. Both getting touch notch reviews in terms of style, performance, features, quality, and most importantly - value. One of the many examples, If you look closely at the pillars, you can see what seems to be black paint, are actually layered black vinyl. This saves them the cost of separated painting. Another example, but for the interior. All TOUCH POINTS are nicely padded with either soft plastics or faux-leather. The headliner is thin wax paper like material, but no one would notice since it is not a touch point, nor would anyone look up and compare headliners. The non-touch points are all cheaply molded hard plastics, which would not matter since it is not seen and/or touched. The sunshade mirror light is a manual switch, compared to a relay. If you have also noticed, none of their cars handle particularly well when compared with other in their classes, but that is irrelevant to the interest of their buyers.
Also take into consideration that they sell an amazingly large volume, which irons out their lack of profit even if they did have trouble profiting off their cars they manufacture (which is not something Hyundai nor their dealers are having trouble with). I am sure their marketing strategy with their warranty and job-loss buy back help their sales also. This year, they have sold more cars in the U.S. than all of European cars combined. Hell, they even sold more cars than Nissan. Their new factory in the U.S. actually pays less than all the other car manufacturers with factories in the U.S., taking an impact on all major brands, even the Japanese, BMW and VW since they have factories in the U.S. too.
I gotta say Hyundai is smart at cutting corners. They know what customers want and what they see. So they just focus on making the "you can see parts"as nice as they can. And cut all the corners at other areas. To me, thats perfectly fine, like you said, most people wouldnt even notice them.
As long as their drivetrain is durable i am perfectly happy. I almost have 1 k on odo. I am looking forward to break at least 200k on this car.
08-10-2011, 10:23 AM
#39
All I heard from the dealer (this is dealer talking here) that they are killing the rotary. The RX-8 cost Mazda a ton of money in warranty repairs not including the engine failures. My dealer wouldn’t even sell them after the first couple of years due to it being a PR nightmare for them.
I'm not saying I agree with their statements, but that is what they told me. If even some of that is true, I do not expect the rotary to come back anytime soon.
I'm not saying I agree with their statements, but that is what they told me. If even some of that is true, I do not expect the rotary to come back anytime soon.
08-10-2011, 11:59 AM
#40
Registered User
Your dealer is stupid. He has no input on weather or not he sells them or not. They have a quota of cars they receive. Now say they want more mazda 3s . Mazda will say. " we will give you an additional 12 3s but ur talking 3 rx8s" if he said no. Then no extra stock. Now that's how my dealership worked. Your boss gets no news from no one. He can use it to his advantage by not ordering older stock and waiting for the next model.
08-10-2011, 12:54 PM
#41
Your dealer is stupid. He has no input on weather or not he sells them or not. They have a quota of cars they receive. Now say they want more mazda 3s . Mazda will say. " we will give you an additional 12 3s but ur talking 3 rx8s" if he said no. Then no extra stock. Now that's how my dealership worked. Your boss gets no news from no one. He can use it to his advantage by not ordering older stock and waiting for the next model.
but ...
when NO dealerships wanna sell RX-8, what can Mazda do? Mazda gotta move cars to survive.
His dealership might be loaded with morons. but honestly Mazda did RX-8 wrong.
Wrong Oil weight, underestimate certain engine running conditions, etc. Remember how much we have done (S1 owners) to fight all those problems ourselves (some are still not-fixable, like the omp nozzle)
S2 is what RX-8 should have been. but too late, to ruined a reputation, all it takes is 5 minutes.
Mazda should hand pick certain people in the community like me. Sit down, talk with us, and maybe give us a test mule for us to drive it around for a while. make us sign certain NDA so we are not allowed to say one word about it. Look at Toyota, that's what they have been doing, look at their Prius, they invited some Prius "Enthusiast" to fly over to their headquarters, give them a new Prius and drive it for a few days, then ask for their feedback. To me I think this would cost WAY less and you will get more "real life" data than running tests in labs.
08-10-2011, 05:56 PM
#44
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My question is why would they release such an inspiring design concept with RX8 clothing and design cues if they had no intention of releasing at least another sports car in the near future?
08-10-2011, 06:01 PM
#45
Momentum Keeps Me Going
A: Mazda is good at doing mostly weird and occasionally stunning concepts accompanied by way too much verbose Japanese prose as to what it all "means". What they are not good at is getting almost any of them into production...IOW... to much dreaming, not enough getting to it and doing something. Haven't you noticed?
08-10-2011, 09:01 PM
#48
08-10-2011, 10:10 PM
#49
*sigh*
This is not even the first time someone said "ok, Rotary is dead"
hmm, I said this before didn't I ...
Well anyway, no matter how many times it has been "dead", it came back to life. every time.
Oh yeah, I'm saving money for da Next Generation Rotary. In the mean time, release SkyActiv Mazda3 and CX-5 already. lemme pick and see which one should I go for
This is not even the first time someone said "ok, Rotary is dead"
hmm, I said this before didn't I ...
Well anyway, no matter how many times it has been "dead", it came back to life. every time.
Oh yeah, I'm saving money for da Next Generation Rotary. In the mean time, release SkyActiv Mazda3 and CX-5 already. lemme pick and see which one should I go for
08-10-2011, 11:15 PM
#50
Super Moderator
So what if Mazda finally decides to abandon the rotary engine after more than four decades of evolution? Will a version of the new SKYACTIV range of engines be its replacement?
AS I have said time and time again...I just cant see any business case for a new Rotary...until the World starts Growing again...IF...
I will give it another 10 years...
Mazda are not the ONLY car maker waiting to see...and Mazda just can not afford the exposure of a slow selling model..
IT WONT HAPPEN....Sorry....but yes it is dead...for now.
Makes our 8's a little more valuable...IMO