Mazda halts rotary engine development (?)
08-08-2011, 02:43 PM
#1
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Mazda halts rotary engine development (?)
These stories come up in the news periodically, suggesting both the continuation, and the end, of the rotary engine. This one is from today's The Truth About Cars (a fantastic site, by the way), referencing a Wards Auto story that the rotary engine may be hitting the end of the road. Both links are below -
http://wardsauto.com/ar/mazda_rotary_road_110805/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...nce-to-wankel/
It would not be surprising, given the current state of the world economy, but would be a very, very sad day......
http://wardsauto.com/ar/mazda_rotary_road_110805/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...nce-to-wankel/
It would not be surprising, given the current state of the world economy, but would be a very, very sad day......
08-08-2011, 05:57 PM
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You can take anything you hear with a grain of salt these days, but I know Mazda has publicly stated they will never give up on the rotary. Considering we are about to start another recession (that is if the first one ever ended) the timing of another rotary car is anyone's guess at this point. People who have just watched a large chunk of their life savings disappear...AGAIN...aren't gonna be in the mood to drop 30+k on a car. At the rate it's going, sports cars may go extinct.
08-08-2011, 07:51 PM
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You can take anything you hear with a grain of salt these days, but I know Mazda has publicly stated they will never give up on the rotary. Considering we are about to start another recession (that is if the first one ever ended) the timing of another rotary car is anyone's guess at this point. People who have just watched a large chunk of their life savings disappear...AGAIN...aren't gonna be in the mood to drop 30+k on a car. At the rate it's going, sports cars may go extinct.
08-08-2011, 08:56 PM
#8
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Physics has already answered this question for Mazda. Mazda simply needs to acquiesce and get on with building (investing in) a decent hardtop sports car to market that’s larger than the Miata, that's part of a money making plan.
08-08-2011, 11:58 PM
#9
"I wanna go fast!"
They need to make a 45k rotary rocket and call it a day. Lightweight materials and a light small car to begin with... similar to the 92 rx7.
Then drop the 300hp new engine in it. No skimping out on things. I dont want a cheaply made car with stupid issues.
That will cater to a lot of people.
Then drop the 300hp new engine in it. No skimping out on things. I dont want a cheaply made car with stupid issues.
That will cater to a lot of people.
08-09-2011, 12:35 AM
#10
Huge hole is huge
They need to make a 45k rotary rocket and call it a day. Lightweight materials and a light small car to begin with... similar to the 92 rx7.
Then drop the 300hp new engine in it. No skimping out on things. I dont want a cheaply made car with stupid issues.
That will cater to a lot of people.
Then drop the 300hp new engine in it. No skimping out on things. I dont want a cheaply made car with stupid issues.
That will cater to a lot of people.
I have faith in Mazda. They will make the car when they are financially able, and I'm sure they know what will sell.
08-09-2011, 12:41 AM
#11
They need to make a 45k rotary rocket and call it a day. Lightweight materials and a light small car to begin with... similar to the 92 rx7.
Then drop the 300hp new engine in it. No skimping out on things. I dont want a cheaply made car with stupid issues.
That will cater to a lot of people.
Then drop the 300hp new engine in it. No skimping out on things. I dont want a cheaply made car with stupid issues.
That will cater to a lot of people.
08-09-2011, 12:53 AM
#12
"I wanna go fast!"
What car can you buy that gets you 400hp and weighs less then 3500 pounds for 15k or less? Please... tell me so i can go buy one.
And you get what you pay for. If it doesnt sell as many models as they do the Mazda 3 then so what? The rotary car revenue was never enough to sustain the program since the beginning. Do i wish this would change? Yes of course. But its a niche market and not many people will buy a car with this engine.
I would gladly pay 45k for a car with 300+hp, 26mpg, less than 2700 pounds, porsche handling, looks exotic, has lots of loaded features, made with QUALITY parts, and rips the competition. You wanna pay 30k for a serious sports car? Buy a Hyundai and drop 6k into it to get the same performance. (maybe).
You ALWAYS get what you pay for.
EDIT: They dont need to sell a **** ton. They never have and prolly never will because this is the ONLY rotary car that made it to mainstream auto sales. Their other line of piston cars with SKYACTIV will get all the money they need. That is their major source of revenue.
I dont want a cheap fast car. I want a quality fast car with handling and character (with a specific market and purpose). But then again, if its a lot smaller... it will drive costs down a bit. But the question is how much. Personally i think they should buy and use better, stronger, lighter weight materials with the money they save on using a shorter/ smaller frame to work off of.
And you get what you pay for. If it doesnt sell as many models as they do the Mazda 3 then so what? The rotary car revenue was never enough to sustain the program since the beginning. Do i wish this would change? Yes of course. But its a niche market and not many people will buy a car with this engine.
I would gladly pay 45k for a car with 300+hp, 26mpg, less than 2700 pounds, porsche handling, looks exotic, has lots of loaded features, made with QUALITY parts, and rips the competition. You wanna pay 30k for a serious sports car? Buy a Hyundai and drop 6k into it to get the same performance. (maybe).
You ALWAYS get what you pay for.
EDIT: They dont need to sell a **** ton. They never have and prolly never will because this is the ONLY rotary car that made it to mainstream auto sales. Their other line of piston cars with SKYACTIV will get all the money they need. That is their major source of revenue.
I dont want a cheap fast car. I want a quality fast car with handling and character (with a specific market and purpose). But then again, if its a lot smaller... it will drive costs down a bit. But the question is how much. Personally i think they should buy and use better, stronger, lighter weight materials with the money they save on using a shorter/ smaller frame to work off of.
Last edited by CrazyJek; 08-09-2011 at 01:02 AM.
08-09-2011, 01:01 AM
#13
Huge hole is huge
What car can you buy that gets you 400hp and weighs less then 3500 pounds for 15k or less? Please... tell me so i can go buy one.
And you get what you pay for. If it doesnt sell as many models as they do the Mazda 3 then so what? The rotary car revenue was never enough to sustain the program since the beginning. Do i wish this would change? Yes of course. But its a niche market and not many people will buy a car with this engine.
I would gladly pay 45k for a car with 300+hp, 26mpg, less than 2700 pounds, porsche handling, looks exotic, has lots of loaded features, made with QUALITY parts, and rips the competition. You wanna pay 30k for a serious sports car? Buy a Hyundai and drop 6k into it to get the same performance. (maybe).
You ALWAYS get what you pay for.
And you get what you pay for. If it doesnt sell as many models as they do the Mazda 3 then so what? The rotary car revenue was never enough to sustain the program since the beginning. Do i wish this would change? Yes of course. But its a niche market and not many people will buy a car with this engine.
I would gladly pay 45k for a car with 300+hp, 26mpg, less than 2700 pounds, porsche handling, looks exotic, has lots of loaded features, made with QUALITY parts, and rips the competition. You wanna pay 30k for a serious sports car? Buy a Hyundai and drop 6k into it to get the same performance. (maybe).
You ALWAYS get what you pay for.
My point still stands. Who cares if I can point to a car with your wild desires...we're talking business here. Hardly anybody will buy that car, ESPECIALLY in the near future.
Only wild fanboy's believe that it would be a good idea to release that kind of a car right now. (I should know, I'm one of them...then again, to own an 8, don't you HAVE to be one?)
*EDIT* Or hell, for your price range, get a Shelby GT500....What do you think American's would rather purchase with their 45-50 grand?
Last edited by CyberPitz; 08-09-2011 at 01:09 AM.
08-09-2011, 02:11 AM
#14
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When you cross the $40,000 range your options for a quality car start to seriously open up. Mazda will need to sell a rotary sports car on more than just the "but it's a rotary!" aspect. The car will have to demonstrate real performance.
Unless they can produce a lightweight platform with power/weight ratio of a typical 300+ hp car and do this between $32,000 to $38,000 it won't fly.
Of the RX8 owners I know (including myself) I'd say only 1 in 5 could afford a $45,000 car.
Unless they can produce a lightweight platform with power/weight ratio of a typical 300+ hp car and do this between $32,000 to $38,000 it won't fly.
Of the RX8 owners I know (including myself) I'd say only 1 in 5 could afford a $45,000 car.
08-09-2011, 08:28 AM
#16
40000 is actually "normal" these days for a car. Consider the fact that it cost MORE than 40 K to get a fully loaded Mini Van or SUV.
in 1992, Mazda's RX-7 cost 39K Fully loaded, that's a lot of money for 1992. A Nice looking house in New York of that time cost around 100K.
with just a little bit more you can get yourself a Porsche. Not that the FD can't beat a Porsche in performance, Brand-name-wise. No one will get a Mazda for that price. at least in the US.
Now days, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Mazda Rotary Engine car would cost close to the 40K mark. Dollar vs Yen, Inflation, etc. and I just bought a Hybrid for 30K. My bro will be getting either a Lexus RX450h or getting a Nissan Quest Loaded and it's 42K already.
in 1992, Mazda's RX-7 cost 39K Fully loaded, that's a lot of money for 1992. A Nice looking house in New York of that time cost around 100K.
with just a little bit more you can get yourself a Porsche. Not that the FD can't beat a Porsche in performance, Brand-name-wise. No one will get a Mazda for that price. at least in the US.
Now days, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Mazda Rotary Engine car would cost close to the 40K mark. Dollar vs Yen, Inflation, etc. and I just bought a Hybrid for 30K. My bro will be getting either a Lexus RX450h or getting a Nissan Quest Loaded and it's 42K already.
08-09-2011, 08:48 AM
#17
When you cross the $40,000 range your options for a quality car start to seriously open up. Mazda will need to sell a rotary sports car on more than just the "but it's a rotary!" aspect. The car will have to demonstrate real performance.
Unless they can produce a lightweight platform with power/weight ratio of a typical 300+ hp car and do this between $32,000 to $38,000 it won't fly.
Unless they can produce a lightweight platform with power/weight ratio of a typical 300+ hp car and do this between $32,000 to $38,000 it won't fly.
if their target market is $40-45K, I'm sure they can throw a lot more goodies to the car. Aluminum Housing will add at least 2-4K more to the engine cost. so it's not that hard to see the next car will be close or at the 40K mark.
Their CX-9, which is the most expensive in their US market line, cost almost 40K MSRP. and with current inflation and dollar vs yen. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2012 model will cost more than 40K. Just look around all manufactures, sub 20K car is considered as budget line(read: CHEAP). 20-30K is just "economy" car. 30-45K is just "mid range," 45K+ is up scale.
Of the RX8 owners I know (including myself) I'd say only 1 in 5 could afford a $45,000 car.
Last edited by nycgps; 08-09-2011 at 08:50 AM.
08-09-2011, 10:13 AM
#18
if their target market is $40-45K, I'm sure they can throw a lot more goodies to the car. Aluminum Housing will add at least 2-4K more to the engine cost. so it's not that hard to see the next car will be close or at the 40K mark.
Their CX-9, which is the most expensive in their US market line, cost almost 40K MSRP. and with current inflation and dollar vs yen. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2012 model will cost more than 40K. Just look around all manufactures, sub 20K car is considered as budget line(read: CHEAP). 20-30K is just "economy" car. 30-45K is just "mid range," 45K+ is up scale.
Maybe, I kinda want that tho. You guys can call me selfish but I rather pay more for the car just to keep kids from reaching it and mess it all up.
Their CX-9, which is the most expensive in their US market line, cost almost 40K MSRP. and with current inflation and dollar vs yen. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2012 model will cost more than 40K. Just look around all manufactures, sub 20K car is considered as budget line(read: CHEAP). 20-30K is just "economy" car. 30-45K is just "mid range," 45K+ is up scale.
Maybe, I kinda want that tho. You guys can call me selfish but I rather pay more for the car just to keep kids from reaching it and mess it all up.
the chassis is already built so the cost wont go up that much more for a modified version of the chassis...(current generation mx-5 uses a modified rx-8 chassis and is cheaper).
08-09-2011, 10:24 AM
#19
what you say is true. but most people wouldnt be able to afford it. and wouldnt it nice to see a true light weight sports cars? not some 3000lb tank....honestly if they build the next mx-5 as light as they say it will be (they said they want to take it back to the 1st gen mx-5 weight) and use that chassis as a base to work on...then it will be TONS better...
the chassis is already built so the cost wont go up that much more for a modified version of the chassis...(current generation mx-5 uses a modified rx-8 chassis and is cheaper).
the chassis is already built so the cost wont go up that much more for a modified version of the chassis...(current generation mx-5 uses a modified rx-8 chassis and is cheaper).
lighter cars is better, but it will cost more that's for sure. so in the end, the car will still cost more to make(and to sell),
might as well make it nicer by adding more performance and luxury stuff.
Mazda should learn a thing or 2 from Hyundai.
Last edited by nycgps; 08-09-2011 at 10:27 AM.
08-09-2011, 04:40 PM
#20
"I wanna go fast!"
40000 is actually "normal" these days for a car. Consider the fact that it cost MORE than 40 K to get a fully loaded Mini Van or SUV.
in 1992, Mazda's RX-7 cost 39K Fully loaded, that's a lot of money for 1992. A Nice looking house in New York of that time cost around 100K.
with just a little bit more you can get yourself a Porsche. Not that the FD can't beat a Porsche in performance, Brand-name-wise. No one will get a Mazda for that price. at least in the US.
Now days, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Mazda Rotary Engine car would cost close to the 40K mark. Dollar vs Yen, Inflation, etc. and I just bought a Hybrid for 30K. My bro will be getting either a Lexus RX450h or getting a Nissan Quest Loaded and it's 42K already.
in 1992, Mazda's RX-7 cost 39K Fully loaded, that's a lot of money for 1992. A Nice looking house in New York of that time cost around 100K.
with just a little bit more you can get yourself a Porsche. Not that the FD can't beat a Porsche in performance, Brand-name-wise. No one will get a Mazda for that price. at least in the US.
Now days, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Mazda Rotary Engine car would cost close to the 40K mark. Dollar vs Yen, Inflation, etc. and I just bought a Hybrid for 30K. My bro will be getting either a Lexus RX450h or getting a Nissan Quest Loaded and it's 42K already.
And yes Hyundai IS doing something right. But Hyundai dealers barely make anything off the cars they sell. They sell the car for a very small amount above manufacturing costs. Which is why you get great quality for so cheap. But what they lose in immediate profit they make up in the quantity they sell. And they sell A LOT.
08-09-2011, 05:09 PM
#21
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I was in Hiroshima today and I talked to a guy who brothers sister blew a guy in the Rotary Engine Development Department and that guy told her that the next Rotary engine by Mazda will be released next week.
08-09-2011, 06:58 PM
#23
Super Moderator
You are all missing out on one reality.....
Imported Cars and anything imported will continue to rise in price...more substantially than recent years..
With a possible QE3 in the pipeline, 0% interest rates for another 2 years.
It will take some time before a $40K car is seen as "value" in the US.
Mazda has already flagged that they are going up market in the US, code for more expensive.
Your currency dictates what will happen, and all Japanese brands are in the same boat.
Mazda more than anyone.
Even more, I just still can not see WHERE Mazda will have a market for a new Rotary outside of Japan, there are just too many hurdles to jump over.
'IF' they fix Emissions...then they have MPG (Cafe)...
Hybrids, Range Extenders...ALL adds weight..again NOT what Mazda is about.
Now Mazda are "waiting" for breakthrough technology to be invented???
All I keep hearing are PUSH out dates for ANY new Rotray...now 2017...another 6 YEARS!!..
IMO..none of this gives me any confidence...unfortunately.
Imported Cars and anything imported will continue to rise in price...more substantially than recent years..
With a possible QE3 in the pipeline, 0% interest rates for another 2 years.
It will take some time before a $40K car is seen as "value" in the US.
Mazda has already flagged that they are going up market in the US, code for more expensive.
Your currency dictates what will happen, and all Japanese brands are in the same boat.
Mazda more than anyone.
Even more, I just still can not see WHERE Mazda will have a market for a new Rotary outside of Japan, there are just too many hurdles to jump over.
'IF' they fix Emissions...then they have MPG (Cafe)...
Hybrids, Range Extenders...ALL adds weight..again NOT what Mazda is about.
Now Mazda are "waiting" for breakthrough technology to be invented???
All I keep hearing are PUSH out dates for ANY new Rotray...now 2017...another 6 YEARS!!..
IMO..none of this gives me any confidence...unfortunately.
08-09-2011, 07:02 PM
#24
Super Moderator
US journalist are bitching that a new loaded Miata (MX-5) is Expensive at $30K!!!
08-09-2011, 08:16 PM
#25
Momentum Keeps Me Going
2c - the MX-5 IS too expensive as-is. Stock, it can't beat much of anything around a track. Fun it may be, but so is the RX-8. And stock, the 8 can't beat much of anything around a track either. In both cases, it's the engine that's both a joy and the biggest flaw. Simply put, Mazda has crippled both at birth with not enough power. On the street, both have their pleasures, and probably the MX-8 stands out more for it fair weather, top down attribute, but for Mazda to charge much north of 30K, some aspect has got to stand out more to the average performance oriented everyday buyer.
In short, Mazda has to make cars so that average, non enthusiast buyers can get hooked before they can charge premium prices.
In short, Mazda has to make cars so that average, non enthusiast buyers can get hooked before they can charge premium prices.
Last edited by Spin9k; 08-09-2011 at 08:19 PM.