Raptor2k

What? Explain? Okay, 8500. Better? Are you saying the RX-8 would be faster if the redline was higher?

mac11

iTrader: (1)

i don't see ~275-300bhp NA as participating in the horsepower war. If they were interested in that you would see a 50,000$ sports car with 400bhp+ with FI.

What it seems mazda tends to do is give you a very well setup car with a competitive weight/hp ratio.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

Are you saying if Mazda had chosen to spin to 12,000 you don't think they would have tuned it any differently to have a different hp/torque peak and plunge?

dillsrotary

i believe he's saying its the tune for the power drop off, not the physical limits of the renesis.

Raptor2k

Are you saying Mazda had a choice? Was it based on budget?

mysql101

300 would put them up in the same range as the rally cars, which are considered to be fast. I consider that participating - though not on the same scale as a 500 hp corvette (but that's another price class).


Exactly my point. You don't need a lot of power for a nice handling car. Just look at the Miata... Mazda doesn't even seem to know what horse power is.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

you are talking 2 different things here. Up there with the rally cars? you mean the AWD econoboxs from mitsu and subaru? If you haven't check out their next gen cars they are poised to jump in the horsepower range to the mid 300's just like the Z car. Problem is they are all jumping in weight as well.

Be it the RX8, 7, miata, next rotary car...you will NOT have as much HP as others in their price class or any other comperable comparison you want to make. you will have a very similar weight/hp ratio. That is NOT competing in the HP wars. Like I said, if Mazda were competing in HP wars their next motor would be shooting for mid 3 to 400hp. I would be very willing to bet they don't go for that. I bet they give you more like ~9:1 weight:hp and call it a day. That puts them right a bit ahead of the caymenS (Porsche's true track car) but not quite up with the 997 (show pony/night club cruiser) and in a 2700lb car is right around 300bhp.

mysql101

That's a lengthy way to say you agree with me.

If you read my post that mentioned horse power war, you'll notice it's just my wishful thinking, since people are apparently just making up wish lists.

m477

As nice as a bigger engine with more power/torque would be, I'd MUCH rather have a 2400lb car with the current Renesis than a 2800-2900 lb car with 300+hp.

Another reason weight reduction should be the absolute top priority is that Mazda needs a way to differentiate the new RX-7 from the 350Z. If it is 600-800lbs lighter, I think that alone will generate sales. If it is too similar to the 350Z (heavy car/big engine), I don't see what the appeal would be for most buyers.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

at 2700lbs i you will be ~800lbs lighter than the next Z car.

Using the current renesis elsewhere would be great but I want to see the technological possibilities of this motor and this company since they have been given the funding to do a "blank sheet" refresh of the motor. This could be very exciting.

I agree that I would be extatic to see a ~24-2500lb next gen but I just don't see it happening I think it is going to almost HAVE to be ~2700lbs because of the extra equipment that is going to be required to meet crash safety standards.

m477

Yeah, I agree that 2600-2700lbs is probably closer to what we might realistically expect if Mazda actually did make a new RX-7, I just wanted to emphasize the importance of weight reduction.

Also, I don't think the new Z will reach 3500lbs (in coupe form). I'd wager a good sum of money that it will be heavier that the car it replaces, but not by that large an amount.

devildog1679

You can't compare the 350+ torque of the upcoming Camaro to a 300HP RX-7, the same way you can't compare the screaming joy of hitting 9000RPM. I'm still getting the Camaro, by then the 8 will be paid off. I'll have the best of both worlds

mac11

iTrader: (1)

If it gets heavier than the car it replaces how is it NOT going to get 3500lbs? The stripped down model is ~3340lbs and the Grand Touring model is 3400. And yes thats the coupe...according to Nissan themselves....



If you put a lightweight exhaust on a base or sport model RX8 you are literally 300lbs lighter than a base 350Z AND you have a limited slip diff.

playdoh43

its been reported that the evo x will have slightly less than 300hp, the new sti probably closer to 300 than 350hp.

ASH8

SHOCK!...

Here is some news hot off the press from Down Under, I called in at the local Mazda Dealer a few hours ago and the word out from their chief mechanic who has just come back from a Service Managers meeting interstate and the word is there will be NO new Rotary EVER!...the RX-8 is the last!!!

He would not elaborate any further...other than the RENESIS has had too many issues (problems)...

I do not know what to think?

Spin9k

the mechanic's gossip from a service meeting Down Under has the cred of the bum sitting on the street yelling he's just finished a talk with god who told him he was chosen to deliver the latest revelations.... think about it... it just isn't going to come down that way. Keep the faith there'll be a new one until Mazda officially announces the answer.

DailyDriver2k5

Sorry but your mechanic is not a credible source like car&driver, mototrend,etc. These are people who get info on the inside on car companies all day long. and if you notice, a new rotary motor and now talks of a new RX-7 has been the new topic for the past 6 months.

My salesman told me that a new RX-8 may be out next year, but guess what, no magazine on this planet has mentioned of any news of that nature.

rotary crazy

We really dont want that


I have heard that several experimental engines where being tested but in completly normal looking rx-8's, maybe they are pass that part and are testing the changes on the actual chassis

rotary crazy

Dont sweat it mate, look for a 14b or larger engine in your near future

DailyDriver2k5

Mazda stated themselves that 300HP is there base target in the article. If Mazda said that why would they shoot for anything less. Doesn't and wouldn't make sense.

With technology getting better , Mazda could further upon the Renisis motor. Look at the current Renisis now, it makes 232HP in N/A form compared to its FD counterpart that made 255HP with TWIN TURBOS, not one turbo but two!

Thats 23HP more than our N/A rotary, and it used two turbos to get that 255HP goal.

And you guys really think Mazda couldn't give us a base line 300HP rotary? You guys are nuts or either you have a few brain cells that have died.


And as far as fuel econemy, what rotary that you know of gets good gas milage?
Its the nature of the beast......

rotary crazy

time for some thoughs:

for any one to speak of the rx-8's future he has to look in to the past, most of us know how the renesis came to be, it was develop with almost no funds and using old tecnology, the engine was firts used in the rx-01 in 1995 and was developed to become what we know as the renesis, this was done by rotary engineers in there spare time and as volunteers with no pay for there work. And look what they obtained, the engine is more powerfull than an fc turbo engine in NA form and this with a lot of problems to get the engine to meet emissions( this is where the lack of funds bites you in the ***)

Fast foward to today; the rx-8 its mazda second or third best selling rotary car of all time, mazda has publicly said it was developing a new rotary engine, this means the rotary engineers are getting funded and their ideas are being put to the test, so the sky is the limit(and emissions)

Mazda has notice that no matter how practical they make a car if it has a rotary in it, it is going to sell only to a limited market, so I belive they are going to make a pure sports car, they may or may not call it rx-7, I really dont care

what performance should we be thinking of? Mazda has allways shoot for porche cars except with the rx-8, so look for cayman levels of performance

But there is another thing, given the sucses of the rx-8 do you thing mazda is going to discontinued it? I dont think so, they only need to drop the new engine in it, and give it a face lift, make some interior changes and thats it, call it the second gen rx-8

Red Devil

Bingo.

Red Devil

Amen...a good summation, and then a bit more, of everything some of us have been writing in this thread.

DailyDriver2k5

In the article that i read they never mentioned keeping the 8 or getting rid of it, what they did mention are these key points: New Rotary, New RX-7,sleek and sexy light body, base target of 300HP N/A, Mazda listening to its fans. Period.

These are key points that all of us have been addressing and to me it seems like Mazda is finally listening.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

who from Mazda said anything in that article? Who did they quote? I'm seriously asking, I didn't see the article.