2010/2011 RX-7 Motortrend article
07-16-2007, 03:06 PM
#26
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Nah, I meant Cayman. Look, don't get me wrong, the Cayman would be my choice for a litany of reasons, but for outright speed, the Z is not that much slower, or that much worse of a handler. It's a matter of diminishing returns the more you spend. So if not 90%, than call it 80%. My point is, arguably, for twice the price of a Z the Cayman doesn't offer twice the outright performance. Better package, more refined, almost perfect handling as far as I've read and higher quality all around...surely, but not twice tthe performance. All I meant by it...
07-16-2007, 03:12 PM
#27
if you're referring to the FD, that was also priced at $35,000 15 years ago. Whatever is coming would need to be at the same pricing to be competitive with other sport coupes. Also, the Z is not that far afield of a Cayman S. Surely most would choose the Porsche over the Nissan for myriad other reasons, but in terms of pure performance, I don't think anyone would argue that you can spend about half the money you'd be spending on a Cayman and get 90+% of the performance in a Z. So while the engineers might have a Cayman, Z, Elise and others to look at while hopefully designing a future rotary coupe, I highly doubt they're looking to specifically outdo a Cayman which is twice the price. Rather, they would aim to cannibalize sales of their car's direct competitors by outperforming them and costing less to gain market share. If this thing and a new Supra come out...I am going to nut myself. Just throwing it out there.
Yes, you are exactly right. Which is why the RX-cars used to be called the poor mans porsche.
And actually I was referring to the 944 killing FC specifically.
07-16-2007, 03:14 PM
#28
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if you're referring to the FD, that was also priced at $35,000 15 years ago. Whatever is coming would need to be at the same pricing to be competitive with other sport coupes. Also, the Z is not that far afield of a Cayman S. Surely most would choose the Porsche over the Nissan for myriad other reasons, but in terms of pure performance, I don't think anyone would argue that you can spend about half the money you'd be spending on a Cayman and get 90+% of the performance in a Z. So while the engineers might have a Cayman, Z, Elise and others to look at while hopefully designing a future rotary coupe, I highly doubt they're looking to specifically outdo a Cayman which is twice the price. Rather, they would aim to cannibalize sales of their car's direct competitors by outperforming them and costing less to gain market share. If this thing and a new Supra come out...I am going to nut myself. Just throwing it out there.
The great thing for us is, the next generation MSP engine will probably have more hp than the FD, and could weigh a bit less. In other words, it doesn't seem implausible to assume better performance from a Kabura based car than what the FD offered - and without the complexity.
Last edited by Red Devil; 07-16-2007 at 03:16 PM.
07-16-2007, 03:14 PM
#29
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My buddy in Irvine showed me some blurry pictures (camera phone) of an interesting mule last weekend that had a RX-8 trunk/Rear end, somewhat similar to a very tweaked Kabura/MX-3/RX-3 front end and a PRHT MX-5 mid-section. He said it had a normally aspirated 15B in it.
But since these were camera pictures it was hard to say what was real, but he traditional has been very accurate on his info.
But since these were camera pictures it was hard to say what was real, but he traditional has been very accurate on his info.
07-16-2007, 03:19 PM
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I, too, would trust family. But not 350hp on a conservative tune. Christ. That hp/liter on a 1.3 like the renesis would equate to 285hp! That sounds a little too far fetched to believe, but hey, if it comes to fruition, everyone wins.
07-16-2007, 03:32 PM
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07-16-2007, 03:35 PM
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07-16-2007, 03:55 PM
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07-16-2007, 03:57 PM
#41
07-16-2007, 04:02 PM
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It does not have to have 300hp if the car is light enough, 280 hp in a 2700 hp car and we are talking porche cayman levels of performance if not better
And then Pettit comes out with a supercharger kit
And then Pettit comes out with a supercharger kit
07-16-2007, 04:22 PM
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Always so many naysayers on this board. Everyone said the same about the RX-8, and yet here we all are as owners of this car also.
07-16-2007, 04:26 PM
#44
I would like to remind you of the lengths mazda has gone through in order to make the current RX-8 fuel efficient, some of which has bit them in the ***. Making the car with a bigger motor isn't going to help in that department. Nevermind the fact that Mazda in general doesn't make high power cars from the factory. Even their gains from Mazdaspeed department are conservative.
07-16-2007, 04:31 PM
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07-16-2007, 04:33 PM
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Do you honestly think mazda is going to make a rotary engine large enough to push 300 hp NA?
I would like to remind you of the lengths mazda has gone through in order to make the current RX-8 fuel efficient, some of which has bit them in the ***. Making the car with a bigger motor isn't going to help in that department. Nevermind the fact that Mazda in general doesn't make high power cars from the factory. Even their gains from Mazdaspeed department are conservative.
I would like to remind you of the lengths mazda has gone through in order to make the current RX-8 fuel efficient, some of which has bit them in the ***. Making the car with a bigger motor isn't going to help in that department. Nevermind the fact that Mazda in general doesn't make high power cars from the factory. Even their gains from Mazdaspeed department are conservative.
If you look at long term fuel tests between the RX-8 and G35c, their mileage is comparable. IMO, that is the RX-8s real competitor. No place has more whining about gas mileage than the people on this site.
Larger displacement should consume more fuel, but then again DI should yield better mileage than our current port injection. Also, since we're speculating on a car that will be less weight than the RX-8, mileage may not be that bad, or dependent on gearing even better than the RX-8.
07-16-2007, 04:41 PM
#47
I guess I should remind you of the fact that the Renesis was developed after hours and on basically ZERO budget. Now Mazda is public that they are in fact developing the next engine, and that it is a whole new design. Sounds way different from the Renesis development, doesn't it?
I didn't bring up fuel economy because it bothers me, in fact almost all my mods help me burn more fuel faster
The reason I brought up economy is due to the fact that mazda spent so much time and development on that area. Even so, we ended up with cars that do 12-19 mpg with only 3,000 lbs. I just don't see them making a huge step towards a bigger engine because raw power has never been their forte or goal, nevermind that it goes against fuel economy.
If you look at long term fuel tests between the RX-8 and G35c, their mileage is comparable. IMO, that is the RX-8s real competitor. No place has more whining about gas mileage than the people on this site.
07-16-2007, 04:47 PM
#48
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None of which means it's going to make 300 hp.
I didn't bring up fuel economy because it bothers me, in fact almost all my mods help me burn more fuel faster The reason I brought up economy is due to the fact that mazda spent so much time and development on that area. Even so, we ended up with cars that do 12-19 mpg with only 3,000 lbs. I just don't see them making a huge step towards a bigger engine because raw power has never been their forte or goal, nevermind that it goes against fuel economy.
I didn't bring up fuel economy because it bothers me, in fact almost all my mods help me burn more fuel faster
The reason I brought up economy is due to the fact that mazda spent so much time and development on that area. Even so, we ended up with cars that do 12-19 mpg with only 3,000 lbs. I just don't see them making a huge step towards a bigger engine because raw power has never been their forte or goal, nevermind that it goes against fuel economy.I see the G35c as the RX-8's main competitor due to dimensions and seating. It's the closest I can think of to our cars at the moment.
07-16-2007, 04:48 PM
#49
None of which means it's going to make 300 hp.
I didn't bring up fuel economy because it bothers me, in fact almost all my mods help me burn more fuel faster The reason I brought up economy is due to the fact that mazda spent so much time and development on that area. Even so, we ended up with cars that do 12-19 mpg with only 3,000 lbs. I just don't see them making a huge step towards a bigger engine because raw power has never been their forte or goal, nevermind that it goes against fuel economy.
I guess we'll have to disagree on this point too, since I don't think the G35 is in the same category of car as the RX-8, or any other sports car.
I didn't bring up fuel economy because it bothers me, in fact almost all my mods help me burn more fuel faster
The reason I brought up economy is due to the fact that mazda spent so much time and development on that area. Even so, we ended up with cars that do 12-19 mpg with only 3,000 lbs. I just don't see them making a huge step towards a bigger engine because raw power has never been their forte or goal, nevermind that it goes against fuel economy.I guess we'll have to disagree on this point too, since I don't think the G35 is in the same category of car as the RX-8, or any other sports car.
oh look, theres that reference again.
07-16-2007, 04:48 PM
#50
You may be correct. I'm just trying not to doubt Mazda's capabilities. For a company of their size, working on this engine, they've managed to do a lot and sell more than a million within their rotary powered lines. I guess I just give them a lot of credit for their determination...one way or another, they always find a way to get to where they want/need to be.
I think you just misunderstand my intent. I would love to see them come out with a bad *** RX-7. I just don't see it matching up with their previous actions... maybe they'll change and participate in the horse power war