16x Delay
10-22-2009, 02:22 PM
#76
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We can either get a minimalist car true to sports car roots that would sell well and be what most people want or we could hold out for the holy grail of rotary sports cars for a few rotary fanatics and never see anything ever again. I know which one I'd choose. If you want 300 hp from the factory, go buy a Camaro. Sorry to be a realist.
I really do not see WHY they Won't do it....it is a NO Brainer...the car is there, the chassis is there...the engine will fit.
We Don't want another FD...it will not sell/work..I am saying this from a price point.
10-22-2009, 02:41 PM
#77
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I love how all you guys are reading this and basically throwing in the towel.
do you not see this as a good thing? I think RG put it best:
.
do you not see this as a good thing? I think RG put it best:
Originally Posted by Rotarygod
To me it's exciting to see that "good enough" in regards to the rotary isn't in fact good enough
10-22-2009, 02:42 PM
#78
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If you had a 2 seat car that was 300-400 lbs lighter than the RX-8 that had a smaller engine but an honest 250 hp with a wide powerband due to a turbo, and an engine that averaged 20% more efficient from a mileage standpoint than a Renesis, you bet it would sell! You'd have a small 2 seat car true to the original intent of the RX-7, it would have at least 25 more peak hp than an RX-8 with more average and due to it's lower weight would easily outrun it. Weight would help it corner and stop better and be easier on suspension components too as well as helping with power to weight ratio and mileage. If we had an engine that was 20% more efficient, that would assume it would be that lugging the same load around. Put it in a lighter car and now the efficiency gain is even greater.
This would be a car that could outhandle and outrun an FD or RX-8 and it could do it cleaner with a smaller engine while getting much better mileage. This would absolutely sell! It wouldn't need to top 300 hp and Mazda will never give us a rotary that does that anyways. Horsepower is a number. Performance is what sells.
This would be a car that could outhandle and outrun an FD or RX-8 and it could do it cleaner with a smaller engine while getting much better mileage. This would absolutely sell! It wouldn't need to top 300 hp and Mazda will never give us a rotary that does that anyways. Horsepower is a number. Performance is what sells.
10-22-2009, 02:44 PM
#79
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Here's my criteria for the next rotary sports car.
1: 2600-2700 lbs.
2: 2 rotor engine.
A: 1.0L to 1.2L displacement.
B: All side port
C: Direct injected
D: Turbocharged
E: 250 honest horsepower
F: 22/32 mpg
3: 2 seater coupe.
A: No 2+2 option
B: No convertible
C: No targa top
4: 6 speed manual transmission
A: No automatic option
5: Traction control as an on/off option
6: ABS standard
7: It can not look anything like the front of the new 3!
8: Sized similar or very slightly larger than a Miata but no larger than the 3rd generation RX-7.
9: $30K price point.
That's it. Simple. No add ons. No bling. If it could hit .98 G in the skidpad which is what the last RX-7 could do, hit 0-60 in around 4.5 seconds with the 1/4 mile coming around 13.5-13.8 seconds flat, which should be possible with that power to weight ratio, it would sell. Forget the big heavy power trend. Don't follow it. You'll never make the rotary reliable enough. Stick to sports car roots and people will buy it.
10-22-2009, 03:09 PM
#80
If you Americans paid what we pay for fuel they'd never sell anything else than Priuses over there. Those fake low prices you are keeping up certainly unevens the car industry, in a good way for sports cars though. But you couldn't even sell ONE of the dreams some of you have for the rotary in Europe or Asia 
(eventhough, yes, we all want 700 hp 4 rotary beasts to **** off Honda and Nissan and the environmentalists)
I am hoping they squeeze this engine for what it's worth, release it, and put it in a 2 door lightweight rx-7 ish car and one in an RX-8'ish followup with a couple of power options. Mazda has the most exciting designs (though Toyota stopped being useless, with the FT-86) so they can still keep the uniqueness that makes everyone turn their head when the 5 year old RX-8 passes them.
(eventhough, yes, we all want 700 hp 4 rotary beasts to **** off Honda and Nissan and the environmentalists)I am hoping they squeeze this engine for what it's worth, release it, and put it in a 2 door lightweight rx-7 ish car and one in an RX-8'ish followup with a couple of power options. Mazda has the most exciting designs (though Toyota stopped being useless, with the FT-86) so they can still keep the uniqueness that makes everyone turn their head when the 5 year old RX-8 passes them.
10-22-2009, 03:18 PM
#81
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Touring or sports coupe, the next RX will be lighter. I sincerely hope that they have more than 1 rotary offered, and I believe that they will. Just the fact that their series hybrid is powered from a rotary proves that they are willing to have more than 1 rotary in production at a time.
The touring would likely be a bit heavier, the coupe lighter, but both would probably be under the 2600lb range. Power isn't needed to go fast. Power is needed to overcome weight to go fast. Reduce weight, you don't need the power for the straight line power people complain about. Reducing weight also reduces wear, and improves fuel economy. If the RX-8 was somehow 2600lbs, or even 2500, we would definitely have a better MPG rating than we do. Mazda acknowledges it, and embraces it, with reducing weight across the entire lineup as part of the solution to better mileage.
Rotary isn't dead. Anyone who says otherwise is just secretly wishing it dies. So maybe we have another 9 year gap between production models. So what? Everyone who complains now, or bemoans the end of the rotary world can go back to piston while the rest of us keep hunting, finding, repairing, and enjoying the RX-8 the same way the RX-7 guys are sticking with their rotary.
I still say that the rotary powering the series hybrid will give Mazda TONS of usable data. It has to considering the relatively stable environment it was designed for. The same way F1 learnings migrate to road cars, they don't have to be identical for lessons to transfer.
The touring would likely be a bit heavier, the coupe lighter, but both would probably be under the 2600lb range. Power isn't needed to go fast. Power is needed to overcome weight to go fast. Reduce weight, you don't need the power for the straight line power people complain about. Reducing weight also reduces wear, and improves fuel economy. If the RX-8 was somehow 2600lbs, or even 2500, we would definitely have a better MPG rating than we do. Mazda acknowledges it, and embraces it, with reducing weight across the entire lineup as part of the solution to better mileage.
Rotary isn't dead. Anyone who says otherwise is just secretly wishing it dies. So maybe we have another 9 year gap between production models. So what? Everyone who complains now, or bemoans the end of the rotary world can go back to piston while the rest of us keep hunting, finding, repairing, and enjoying the RX-8 the same way the RX-7 guys are sticking with their rotary.
I still say that the rotary powering the series hybrid will give Mazda TONS of usable data. It has to considering the relatively stable environment it was designed for. The same way F1 learnings migrate to road cars, they don't have to be identical for lessons to transfer.
10-22-2009, 03:18 PM
#82
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They don't even need any of this crap.
Assuming the 16x is more powerful and more efficient drop it in a Miata, End of story.
If the 16x isn't ready, just drop the S2 Renny in a Miata.
It will sell, its a great car. The weight alone will get it better numbers in all areas.
However, I love the Rx8 for what it is. I like the touring aspect of it, I love the suicides, It looks great, and is great for what it is. I say keep an 8 like design for the family guys etc, I'd still like to have both.
Assuming the 16x is more powerful and more efficient drop it in a Miata, End of story.
If the 16x isn't ready, just drop the S2 Renny in a Miata.
It will sell, its a great car. The weight alone will get it better numbers in all areas.
However, I love the Rx8 for what it is. I like the touring aspect of it, I love the suicides, It looks great, and is great for what it is. I say keep an 8 like design for the family guys etc, I'd still like to have both.
10-22-2009, 03:26 PM
#83
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They don't even need any of this crap.
Assuming the 16x is more powerful and more efficient drop it in a Miata, End of story.
If the 16x isn't ready, just drop the S2 Renny in a Miata.
It will sell, its a great car. The weight alone will get it better numbers in all areas.
However, I love the Rx8 for what it is. I like the touring aspect of it, I love the suicides, It looks great, and is great for what it is. I say keep an 8 like design for the family guys etc, I'd still like to have both.
Assuming the 16x is more powerful and more efficient drop it in a Miata, End of story.
If the 16x isn't ready, just drop the S2 Renny in a Miata.
It will sell, its a great car. The weight alone will get it better numbers in all areas.
However, I love the Rx8 for what it is. I like the touring aspect of it, I love the suicides, It looks great, and is great for what it is. I say keep an 8 like design for the family guys etc, I'd still like to have both.
10-22-2009, 03:29 PM
#84
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Just to clarify, yes. I most certainly meant as an option, not a replacement for the current MX5 Engine.
10-22-2009, 03:59 PM
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If you had a 2 seat car that was 300-400 lbs lighter than the RX-8 that had a smaller engine but an honest 250 hp with a wide powerband due to a turbo, and an engine that averaged 20% more efficient from a mileage standpoint than a Renesis, you bet it would sell! You'd have a small 2 seat car true to the original intent of the RX-7, it would have at least 25 more peak hp than an RX-8 with more average and due to it's lower weight would easily outrun it. Weight would help it corner and stop better and be easier on suspension components too as well as helping with power to weight ratio and mileage. If we had an engine that was 20% more efficient, that would assume it would be that lugging the same load around. Put it in a lighter car and now the efficiency gain is even greater.
This would be a car that could outhandle and outrun an FD or RX-8 and it could do it cleaner with a smaller engine while getting much better mileage. This would absolutely sell! It wouldn't need to top 300 hp and Mazda will never give us a rotary that does that anyways. Horsepower is a number. Performance is what sells.
This would be a car that could outhandle and outrun an FD or RX-8 and it could do it cleaner with a smaller engine while getting much better mileage. This would absolutely sell! It wouldn't need to top 300 hp and Mazda will never give us a rotary that does that anyways. Horsepower is a number. Performance is what sells.
I do think this would sell but I still don’t think it would sell well. The rotary is an unknown for many people, the rumors of lots of them blowing up (obviously wrong) still pervade any other non-rotary car forum.
I do think a miata coupe powered even just by the 13b as it is now would sell a reasonable number. I still think they should take the existing RX8 and put in a turbo 4 and rechristen it the MX8 and leave the Rotary Miata to carry the flag for the rotary engine.
10-22-2009, 04:49 PM
#86
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I do think this would sell but I still don’t think it would sell well. The rotary is an unknown for many people, the rumors of lots of them blowing up (obviously wrong) still pervade any other non-rotary car forum.
I do think a miata coupe powered even just by the 13b as it is now would sell a reasonable number. I still think they should take the existing RX8 and put in a turbo 4 and rechristen it the MX8 and leave the Rotary Miata to carry the flag for the rotary engine.
I do think a miata coupe powered even just by the 13b as it is now would sell a reasonable number. I still think they should take the existing RX8 and put in a turbo 4 and rechristen it the MX8 and leave the Rotary Miata to carry the flag for the rotary engine.
10-22-2009, 04:57 PM
#87
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That's just the thing though. Read through any of the Renesis powered MX-5 build threads. It is clear as day that somewhere in the chain, one or more design engineers made sure that a rotary MX-5 wasn't much of a stretch at worst, fully intended it as an option at best.
I would contend that the MX-5 WAS designed around the rotary, at one point in time. And for whatever political or financial reasons, it did not occur.
Building a car around the rotary makes it come out the best, but it doesn't require a purpose built car to be effective. Having more than 1 rotary platform out there would help, not hurt.
I would contend that the MX-5 WAS designed around the rotary, at one point in time. And for whatever political or financial reasons, it did not occur.
Building a car around the rotary makes it come out the best, but it doesn't require a purpose built car to be effective. Having more than 1 rotary platform out there would help, not hurt.
10-22-2009, 07:28 PM
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It's been six years since the Mazda RX-8 came on the scene and brought with it a sublime combo of handling, equipment, features, and pricing. Whether you're a rotary engine fan or not, you have to recognize the job Mazda did tuning the car's chassis. But now first details on the car’s successor are starting to emerge and thankfully they are reporting that Mazda won’t be mucking around with the winning formula.
The latest information comes from Mazda design boss Ikuo Maeda, who revealed that the next generation RX-8 coupe will be more of an evolution of the current model than a major redesign.
Speaking at this week’s 2009 Tokyo Motor Show, Maeda revealed that the new car will arrive around 2011 and feature the company’s latest design language and technology.
Certain to remain will be current car’s rear-wheel drive layout and four-door coupe body, as well as its rotary engine. No word on whether or not the suicide-style rear doors will remain, however.
As for the powertrain, Mazda insiders have suggested that the rotary engine will increase in displacement to allow more torque. However, emissions and fuel consumption will be curbed with the addition of Mazda’s fuel-saving SKY engine and transmission technologies.
What effect a new RX-8 will have on the development of a successor of the RX-7 is still unknown. Maeda has previously stated that he wants to see a new RX-7 built but all will depend on market conditions and chances are Mazda won’t be launching two premium sports cars anytime soon.
[Autocar]
The latest information comes from Mazda design boss Ikuo Maeda, who revealed that the next generation RX-8 coupe will be more of an evolution of the current model than a major redesign.
Speaking at this week’s 2009 Tokyo Motor Show, Maeda revealed that the new car will arrive around 2011 and feature the company’s latest design language and technology.
Certain to remain will be current car’s rear-wheel drive layout and four-door coupe body, as well as its rotary engine. No word on whether or not the suicide-style rear doors will remain, however.
As for the powertrain, Mazda insiders have suggested that the rotary engine will increase in displacement to allow more torque. However, emissions and fuel consumption will be curbed with the addition of Mazda’s fuel-saving SKY engine and transmission technologies.
What effect a new RX-8 will have on the development of a successor of the RX-7 is still unknown. Maeda has previously stated that he wants to see a new RX-7 built but all will depend on market conditions and chances are Mazda won’t be launching two premium sports cars anytime soon.
[Autocar]
10-22-2009, 07:41 PM
#91
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That's just the thing though. Read through any of the Renesis powered MX-5 build threads. It is clear as day that somewhere in the chain, one or more design engineers made sure that a rotary MX-5 wasn't much of a stretch at worst, fully intended it as an option at best.
I would contend that the MX-5 WAS designed around the rotary, at one point in time. And for whatever political or financial reasons, it did not occur.
Building a car around the rotary makes it come out the best, but it doesn't require a purpose built car to be effective. Having more than 1 rotary platform out there would help, not hurt.
I would contend that the MX-5 WAS designed around the rotary, at one point in time. And for whatever political or financial reasons, it did not occur.
Building a car around the rotary makes it come out the best, but it doesn't require a purpose built car to be effective. Having more than 1 rotary platform out there would help, not hurt.
10-22-2009, 07:46 PM
#92
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this may sound stupid but why can mazda create a smaller displacment 3 rotor like a 1.8L 3 rotor (or what ever is equivalent to it) and have some kind of active rotor managment like GM and chrysler has on its v8's...maybe at crusing speeds the engine decides how to efficinetly fire on each rotor to save fuel(maybe skipping one side of each rotor in sequence to save fuel, i guess instead of each rotor firing 3 times maybe ieach rotor would fire twice or so since there is another rotor to make up for one rotor side being temporarily disabled)...i always wondered if that was at all possible.
honestly i love the rotary and everything it is capable of, but it just isnt going anywhere fast (no pun intended)...the car is steadily being left behind by other car makes and at the end of the day to be successful the car needs to steal some of the market share that other "sporty cars are taking" i think mazda has a fantastic engine readily available to be put into a next gen mazda sports car.
beef up the mspeed 3 engine, stronger internals, better turbo and fuel managment, and hopefully 300rwhp in a light weight 2 seater and i think we have a winner. i honestly dont think the "rotary purists" would really mind purchasing a more capable, relaiable sports car over a next gen rotary with inferior performance/mpg/reliability...i love the rotary but at the end of the day im putting 30K+ in a performance car that i expect to compete well against other similarly priced cars, im not spending my money on an inferior car just to brag about having a rotary and "super tight handling"...that is soooooooo 2004.
honestly i love the rotary and everything it is capable of, but it just isnt going anywhere fast (no pun intended)...the car is steadily being left behind by other car makes and at the end of the day to be successful the car needs to steal some of the market share that other "sporty cars are taking" i think mazda has a fantastic engine readily available to be put into a next gen mazda sports car.
beef up the mspeed 3 engine, stronger internals, better turbo and fuel managment, and hopefully 300rwhp in a light weight 2 seater and i think we have a winner. i honestly dont think the "rotary purists" would really mind purchasing a more capable, relaiable sports car over a next gen rotary with inferior performance/mpg/reliability...i love the rotary but at the end of the day im putting 30K+ in a performance car that i expect to compete well against other similarly priced cars, im not spending my money on an inferior car just to brag about having a rotary and "super tight handling"...that is soooooooo 2004.
Last edited by magikone69; 10-22-2009 at 07:49 PM.
10-22-2009, 07:57 PM
#93
Super Moderator
Taiki 16X
Not sure if you guys have seen the Mazda Taiki vid with the 16X engine...
This vid was done when in Australia...
Check out the indicator lights that actually shine through the body work, and the dash tacho is SICK!...
[EMBED]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/w5NLMg33vMI&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf& feature=player_profilepage&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/w5NLMg33vMI&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf& feature=player_profilepage&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/EMBED]
This vid was done when in Australia...
Check out the indicator lights that actually shine through the body work, and the dash tacho is SICK!...
[EMBED]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/w5NLMg33vMI&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf& feature=player_profilepage&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/w5NLMg33vMI&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf& feature=player_profilepage&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/EMBED]
10-22-2009, 07:58 PM
#94
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If the ms3 engine doesn't fit a Miata, it probably won't go in the 8 either. Balance and power are not easily married.
10-22-2009, 08:20 PM
#95
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I guess this is why the MX-5 has been such a failure because of ALL the POWER it has..some still just don't get it.
A car, even a sports car is not always about 0-60 (100 KPH) times.
The 232HP (flywheel) RENESIS would be fantastic in an ultra light 2 seater..like the MX-5...
Just by throwing out the MX-5's 4 banger and putting in a rotary you are saving..what??
I guess around 150 pounds??..
It is all about POWER to WEIGHT, not the HP of the engine.
The only problem today with making cars lighter are the compliance regulations, Air bags, Traction, ABS, 280 pound drivers, etc ,etc,..
Then it must have , cruise control, alarms, sensors, high power music, 100 speakers, blah, blah, blah.
Cars have become FAT and UGLY because many western societies have become FAT and Ugly.
If they lost some pounds and did not eat so much cars might look more "normal" again.
No offense to anyone....But, if the cap fit's wear it...
A car, even a sports car is not always about 0-60 (100 KPH) times.
The 232HP (flywheel) RENESIS would be fantastic in an ultra light 2 seater..like the MX-5...
Just by throwing out the MX-5's 4 banger and putting in a rotary you are saving..what??
I guess around 150 pounds??..
It is all about POWER to WEIGHT, not the HP of the engine.
The only problem today with making cars lighter are the compliance regulations, Air bags, Traction, ABS, 280 pound drivers, etc ,etc,..
Then it must have , cruise control, alarms, sensors, high power music, 100 speakers, blah, blah, blah.
Cars have become FAT and UGLY because many western societies have become FAT and Ugly.
If they lost some pounds and did not eat so much cars might look more "normal" again.
No offense to anyone....But, if the cap fit's wear it...
10-22-2009, 08:32 PM
#96
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...the car is steadily being left behind by other car makes
... i honestly dont think the "rotary purists" would really mind purchasing a more capable, relaiable sports car over a next gen rotary with inferior performance/mpg/reliability...i love the rotary but at the end of the day im putting 30K+ in a performance car that i expect to compete well against other similarly priced cars, im not spending my money on an inferior car just to brag about having a rotary and "super tight handling"...that is soooooooo 2004.
... i honestly dont think the "rotary purists" would really mind purchasing a more capable, relaiable sports car over a next gen rotary with inferior performance/mpg/reliability...i love the rotary but at the end of the day im putting 30K+ in a performance car that i expect to compete well against other similarly priced cars, im not spending my money on an inferior car just to brag about having a rotary and "super tight handling"...that is soooooooo 2004.
If this seriously makes it an inferior car for you, then move on, no one will miss you. Just like if it makes it inferior for the rest of the world and they go to cars with power as the only stat, well, it keeps the 8 with some level of rarity and I don't have to see them everywhere I go. I don't want a common car. Maybe you do. If you want to add competitive power to the rest of it's laundry list of high points, then you will also be adding a really high price tag, and it will instantly become another one of those cars that ends up on poster dreams and not in the driveways of everyday people. If you want the power without the price tag, start picking apart the list of high points the 8 has and drop half of them. At least.
If you really want the entire package in a low price point car, get a car with everything else and add power. No matter how much you try to mod it, a mustang will never look rare, will never handle like a dream, will never have a soul. You can add power to the 8, you can't add those to a v8 muscle car.
Edit:
Drop weight and you will gain speed. It's cheaper than adding power, and does the same thing for the single stat that everyone seems to care about. But also helps everything else that we care about.
+1. If they do get married, it is a pricey wedding. Give me cheaper, less power, fun to drive any day.
Last edited by RIWWP; 10-22-2009 at 08:48 PM.
10-22-2009, 08:50 PM
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Its kinda unfair to say the miata is successful because of its great performance and handling since 95% of the buyers who purchase it purchase it cause its good at what it was designed to be...cheap well rounded roadster.
i kinda have a jist of what mazda wanted to do with the current 8 and thats ok...but we can all agree it failed at the real life reason why cars are made...TO MAKE MONEY...sure i agree its a great performing car and has a niche following but the 8 doesnt make enoguh to break even for the cost of development, car sales decline as the years go by, resale sucks cause why buy an 08 when there are still 07's on the lot....
in order for mazda to create a successful dent in the sporty car market they need a great performing car, and if they obviously cant do it with a rotary they need to look at doing it with something else.
it would be nice to have a rotary powered MX-5, would i buy one....no. Cause im in the market for something similar to the Z, or genesis coupe perhaps. A coupe styled car, not a roadster.
"If the ms3 engine doesn't fit a Miata, it probably won't go in the 8 either. Balance and power are not easily married."
well yea that may be true for the current 8, but the next gen car can make adjustments to fit the engine...maybe once the engine is created with a longitudinal format it may be easier to fit.
I want the overall ballance of power and handling, which is why i drive an 8 and not s mustang or somethin, but no matter how well balanced a sports/sporty car is it should be able to hold its own straightline against an altima or accord... i mean come one
Last edited by magikone69; 10-22-2009 at 08:58 PM.
10-22-2009, 09:54 PM
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This is the problem with the people on the fence over the engine. The ONLY stat you can truly say the 8 is inferior on is straightline power. Reliability is highly subjective, as most of the reliability issues were for people that didn't know what they were buying or were too lazy to bother taking care of it, assuming it would survive anyway like a piston engine. Mileage complaints are simply retarded.
If this seriously makes it an inferior car for you, then move on, no one will miss you. Just like if it makes it inferior for the rest of the world and they go to cars with power as the only stat, well, it keeps the 8 with some level of rarity and I don't have to see them everywhere I go. I don't want a common car. Maybe you do. If you want to add competitive power to the rest of it's laundry list of high points, then you will also be adding a really high price tag, and it will instantly become another one of those cars that ends up on poster dreams and not in the driveways of everyday people. If you want the power without the price tag, start picking apart the list of high points the 8 has and drop half of them. At least.
If you really want the entire package in a low price point car, get a car with everything else and add power. No matter how much you try to mod it, a mustang will never look rare, will never handle like a dream, will never have a soul. You can add power to the 8, you can't add those to a v8 muscle car.
Edit:
Drop weight and you will gain speed. It's cheaper than adding power, and does the same thing for the single stat that everyone seems to care about. But also helps everything else that we care about.
+1. If they do get married, it is a pricey wedding. Give me cheaper, less power, fun to drive any day.
If this seriously makes it an inferior car for you, then move on, no one will miss you. Just like if it makes it inferior for the rest of the world and they go to cars with power as the only stat, well, it keeps the 8 with some level of rarity and I don't have to see them everywhere I go. I don't want a common car. Maybe you do. If you want to add competitive power to the rest of it's laundry list of high points, then you will also be adding a really high price tag, and it will instantly become another one of those cars that ends up on poster dreams and not in the driveways of everyday people. If you want the power without the price tag, start picking apart the list of high points the 8 has and drop half of them. At least.
If you really want the entire package in a low price point car, get a car with everything else and add power. No matter how much you try to mod it, a mustang will never look rare, will never handle like a dream, will never have a soul. You can add power to the 8, you can't add those to a v8 muscle car.
Edit:
Drop weight and you will gain speed. It's cheaper than adding power, and does the same thing for the single stat that everyone seems to care about. But also helps everything else that we care about.
+1. If they do get married, it is a pricey wedding. Give me cheaper, less power, fun to drive any day.
if the formula for the 8 didnt work as far as making a car that made money, then why recreate history. why not take a step further and improve the existing formula and create something more people can be excited about?
the rotary is a double edged sword, its what makes the rx8 what it is (light, high revving, well ballanced, great handling) due to the characteristics of the engine, but at the same time it really limits the car to some extent..
you say reliability is subjective...tell that to someone who is on the dealer lot wanting to purchase the car and knowing nothing more than that for the past 3 generations the rotary engine has been known to have a high failure rate
you say mileage doesnt matter (which i agree)...but tell that to someone who looks on paper and see 23mpg combined...you think they will jump for joy at sight of that? especially in 2012??
nissan makes a great package deal as far as handling, performance, reliability, mpg and the car is pretty damn good....you mean to tell me mazda cant do a better job by continuing the tradition of having a light weight well balanced car using a piston powered turbo engine???...can you honestly tell me it would be cheaper for mazda to create another rotary powered car (with a brand new rotary engine which seems to not be going to well ) than to use an existing PROOVEN piston engine, retool it a bit and put it in a sports car chasis. Create an engine which will only be used in a SINGLE car as opposed to sharing some of the market cost on the piston engine since its used in several other cars?
I want to hold onto the rotatry roots just as much as the next guy but we gotta think realisticly it just wont work out.
i do love the rarity of the 8, but if mazda doesnt do something to make their sports car more appealing to the masses its gonna be even more rare when it doesnt exist anymore.
10-22-2009, 09:56 PM
#100
Turbos blow!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Mazda produces the most FI vehicles on the market. The problem is the most popular model to us is not FI and we tend to forget when our car is in compared to other sport FI cars.
Here is a list of Mazda's FI vehicles:
CX-7
CX-9
MazdaSpeed3
MazdaSpeed6
Late Model MazdaSpeed Miata.
Here is a list of Mazda's FI vehicles:
CX-7
CX-9
MazdaSpeed3
MazdaSpeed6
Late Model MazdaSpeed Miata.
Last edited by Cattywampus; 10-22-2009 at 09:58 PM.