what the hell??
02-08-2004, 01:08 AM
#26
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the bigger issue here is why is there such a problem to begin with?
frankly, this is stupid...
rev your engine before shutoff? use good gas? dont use high octane? dont valet park? let it idle? seven rmps before shutdown?
come on...instead of doing these stupid things we should all sign a petition...
if this flooding issue was a normal occurence for the rx7, to think that in 2004 mazda would have already fixed the problem
frankly, this is stupid...
rev your engine before shutoff? use good gas? dont use high octane? dont valet park? let it idle? seven rmps before shutdown?
come on...instead of doing these stupid things we should all sign a petition...
if this flooding issue was a normal occurence for the rx7, to think that in 2004 mazda would have already fixed the problem
02-08-2004, 01:13 AM
#27
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oh, by the way, would anyone like to venture a guess as to the number of 8 owners out there that god forbid, drive the 8 like a normal car without any of the 'precautions' and have had no problems with whatsoever?
does 50% sound high?
anyone want to venture a guess?
does 50% sound high?
anyone want to venture a guess?
02-08-2004, 01:27 AM
#28
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Originally posted by fietguy
the bigger issue here is why is there such a problem to begin with?
frankly, this is stupid...
rev your engine before shutoff? use good gas? dont use high octane? dont valet park? let it idle? seven rmps before shutdown?
come on...instead of doing these stupid things we should all sign a petition...
if this flooding issue was a normal occurence for the rx7, to think that in 2004 mazda would have already fixed the problem
the bigger issue here is why is there such a problem to begin with?
frankly, this is stupid...
rev your engine before shutoff? use good gas? dont use high octane? dont valet park? let it idle? seven rmps before shutdown?
come on...instead of doing these stupid things we should all sign a petition...
if this flooding issue was a normal occurence for the rx7, to think that in 2004 mazda would have already fixed the problem
02-08-2004, 11:50 AM
#30
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When I first got mine in December, I would let it run 3 or 4 minutes before engaging the transmission. Now that I'm used to the MT and know I won't kill the darn thing as I let out the clutch-pedal in first, I just crank it and drive. What I do NOT do is kill it cold. I've never revved it at shut-off and don't plan to start until I see such a recommendation (along with procedures) in writing from Mazda. So far - so good....
02-08-2004, 12:17 PM
#31
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Here goes, my first post! Hope nobody gets upset...
Flooding on rotaries has always been an 'issue', more so on the Renesis engine because it doesn't have the peripheral exhaust port to get rid of that excessive fuel.
Listen to what Mazda and those on this board recommend about preventing flooding, it is all excellent advice, and will enable you to enjoy your car withouth worrying about being stranded.
Tell Mazda about any inconvenience flooding may have caused you, with as much detail as possible (not a petition, spare me!). Their job is to make you happy, without happy customers they do not have a future.
I'm sure Mazda will find a way to make life easier for all present and potential 8 owners in the ner future.
Flooding on rotaries has always been an 'issue', more so on the Renesis engine because it doesn't have the peripheral exhaust port to get rid of that excessive fuel.
Listen to what Mazda and those on this board recommend about preventing flooding, it is all excellent advice, and will enable you to enjoy your car withouth worrying about being stranded.
Tell Mazda about any inconvenience flooding may have caused you, with as much detail as possible (not a petition, spare me!). Their job is to make you happy, without happy customers they do not have a future.
I'm sure Mazda will find a way to make life easier for all present and potential 8 owners in the ner future.
02-08-2004, 12:21 PM
#32
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Originally posted by ByeByeSaturn
Also, people with automatics seem to be having more trouble- I'm guessing since they 1) they don't rev it as much, and 2, they have 2 fewer intake ports, they run richer mixtures that foul the plugs sooner. Am I talking out of my a$% here or do you guys think there may be something to that?
Also, people with automatics seem to be having more trouble- I'm guessing since they 1) they don't rev it as much, and 2, they have 2 fewer intake ports, they run richer mixtures that foul the plugs sooner. Am I talking out of my a$% here or do you guys think there may be something to that?
My wife babies our 8 during the week and I "tune it up" on the weekends.
Last edited by Rick; 02-08-2004 at 05:39 PM.
02-08-2004, 12:39 PM
#33
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Re: what the hell??
Originally posted by JmurphRx8
i go to start my car today and it starts up like normal then dies..now i cant get my car started, everytime i turn the key the thing wont even attempt to start..this is rediculous, how can this happen to a brand new car??? My first impressions about this car are starting to change for the worse, how reliable is this thing?
i go to start my car today and it starts up like normal then dies..now i cant get my car started, everytime i turn the key the thing wont even attempt to start..this is rediculous, how can this happen to a brand new car??? My first impressions about this car are starting to change for the worse, how reliable is this thing?
Did you try the emergency start procedure? It seems to me that if you got it started once, you should have been able to get it started again if you crank it with the fuel turned off.
I still didn't catch whether you have an automatic.
How cold was it when you had this event? You don't list your location.
Make sure the dealer gives you the hotter plugs.
Let us know how it turns out, please. Thx
02-08-2004, 04:07 PM
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I had mine for only 2 days when I stalled 30 miles from town out in BFE! The problem, A bad fuel gauge-gasket-hose-fuel pump! What a way to make the change to Mazda! The car was in the shop for the third/fourth day of ownership. The car is back and runs like a champ. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens to a few of you here. Check with your dealership and ask if this has happened to anyone else. The funny thing is that I just purchased a cell phone a week prior to it breaking down. That save my ***!
02-08-2004, 05:06 PM
#35
Prior to getting my 8 last month, I owned an '89 RX-7. 14+ years, 250,110 miles. Never any serious trouble or shop time, except 1 occurrence of a "flood" in the 10th year. Started it cold to move it into the garage, and immediatly shut off. Would not restart all weekend. Sent to shop to resolve. They determined it was flooded, and had it back to me in 2 hours.
Never shut it down cold again, and it never happened again.
Jeff
Never shut it down cold again, and it never happened again.
Jeff
02-09-2004, 10:12 AM
#36
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Since many people have noted that they reflashed the ECM chips at the port allegedly to make the catalytic convertor last longer by running cooler but richer. Richer mix = more of a chance to foul the plugs, right? When the dealerships handle the flooding and "reflash the ECM" are they just putting it back to the original setting? Has anyone still had the flooding after their dealership did this?
The flashing was supposed to change the fuel mapping program to accomplish this. That is like changing a few lines of code in a program while you're at the CD duplication house about to ship it out to all the electronic chain stores.
Bad idea - I've been at companies that have done it and rarely seen it work out for the best. Usually you make a certain group happy (like the execs who had bonuses riding on a delivery date) but usually what happens is the company spends many times more than it expected supporting a product that is half baked. Plus the bad word-of-mouth scares away potential customers for the other models that might have absolutely zero problems.
Mazda can say all they want, but what I really think happened is that they pulled a Microsoft and patched a program without fully testing out what the change would do in the real world. I'm sure there are tons of memos or e-mails where some head of Engineering had to defend the situation for this extra step at the docks and that it would be no big deal.
The flashing was supposed to change the fuel mapping program to accomplish this. That is like changing a few lines of code in a program while you're at the CD duplication house about to ship it out to all the electronic chain stores.
Bad idea - I've been at companies that have done it and rarely seen it work out for the best. Usually you make a certain group happy (like the execs who had bonuses riding on a delivery date) but usually what happens is the company spends many times more than it expected supporting a product that is half baked. Plus the bad word-of-mouth scares away potential customers for the other models that might have absolutely zero problems.
Mazda can say all they want, but what I really think happened is that they pulled a Microsoft and patched a program without fully testing out what the change would do in the real world. I'm sure there are tons of memos or e-mails where some head of Engineering had to defend the situation for this extra step at the docks and that it would be no big deal.
02-09-2004, 12:22 PM
#37
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This thread is starting to get a little off track -
Jmurph, if you are still following this thread can you answer bernieunger's question about whether this happened while the engine was warm? You've got me interested too.
JeagerNH, can you tell me where the port PCM reflash story came from? I have done a search of the forum but can't find anything specific. It concerns me that such a story may be circulating with no real evidence.
Thanks.
Jmurph, if you are still following this thread can you answer bernieunger's question about whether this happened while the engine was warm? You've got me interested too.
JeagerNH, can you tell me where the port PCM reflash story came from? I have done a search of the forum but can't find anything specific. It concerns me that such a story may be circulating with no real evidence.
Thanks.
02-09-2004, 01:57 PM
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Mr M.
To find out more simply use the search feature with the keywords "port campaign". It will turn up the following gem I found from 9/2003 by astrlsrfr:
"The ECU is a microprocessor & memory to manage the engine. It has software which can be "flashed" or programmed into it. By changing the program (aka firmware, or flash image), we can easily change the way the engine runs.
I'm just speculating on the cause of our poor MPG issue, unfortunately. But, from all the reading and chatting I've done, this seems like the most plausible theory:
0. RX-8s have been flashed with ECU code from the factory (say, v1.0 )
1. Boats of RX-8s start showing up in US ports.
2. EPA, US Customs, or some other government entity stops shipment due to emissions being too high
3. Mazda, in a panic, quickly puts together a new ECU flash image (say, v 1.1) which alters intake / exhaust timings, etc.
4. Those cars which get the new images are allowed to ship.
5. Shortly thereafter, Mazda realizes the new ECU code has bugs - leading to poor fuel economy
6. They then do another ECU build (say v1.2) which still meets emissions, but has improved fuel economy, etc.
7. Thereafter, all 8s get the corrected ECU code.
8. Mazda then realizes there has been a power loss associated with the latest code.
9. Mazda issues buyback program & restates power levels.
If you look under your hood, you should see the port campaign number where the ECU code was altered. Because of the randomness of the places to which the cars shipped, the VIN ranges would not necessarily have to be in order. ie, some earlier VINs may have arrived after some later VINS. So, we can't really use VIN ranges to know whose car has what code. What we really need is a way read the version straight out of the ECU. This prolly requires a special tool of some sort."
Or this from mkoll on http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/Web...@.ef067e7/1291
"If neither of those conditions apply, there was a "port campaign" to reprogram the ECUs on early North American 8s (as noted by a "port campaign" sticker under the hood. The reason for reprogrammed ECUs on the early American RX8 deliveries was the fact that Mazda was concerned that the catalytic converters which gather moren than 100K miles may or may not pass the stringent Califonia emmissions. They don't know for a fact if they would fail, either. To be on the safe side, they reprogrammed the ECUs to guarantee the usefullness of the CATs past 100K miles. This, in turn, caused the HP claims to be restated (didn't affect the performance figures by the trade rags since the test cars had the reprogrammed ECUs). The reprogrammed ECUs caused the EVAP units to give off the wrong emmissions readings and the CEL to come on (that's what happened to mine). The solution was to put new EVAP units in the cars. If your VIN was affected, there's a TSB your dealer should have on how to fix."
To find out more simply use the search feature with the keywords "port campaign". It will turn up the following gem I found from 9/2003 by astrlsrfr:
"The ECU is a microprocessor & memory to manage the engine. It has software which can be "flashed" or programmed into it. By changing the program (aka firmware, or flash image), we can easily change the way the engine runs.
I'm just speculating on the cause of our poor MPG issue, unfortunately. But, from all the reading and chatting I've done, this seems like the most plausible theory:
0. RX-8s have been flashed with ECU code from the factory (say, v1.0 )
1. Boats of RX-8s start showing up in US ports.
2. EPA, US Customs, or some other government entity stops shipment due to emissions being too high
3. Mazda, in a panic, quickly puts together a new ECU flash image (say, v 1.1) which alters intake / exhaust timings, etc.
4. Those cars which get the new images are allowed to ship.
5. Shortly thereafter, Mazda realizes the new ECU code has bugs - leading to poor fuel economy
6. They then do another ECU build (say v1.2) which still meets emissions, but has improved fuel economy, etc.
7. Thereafter, all 8s get the corrected ECU code.
8. Mazda then realizes there has been a power loss associated with the latest code.
9. Mazda issues buyback program & restates power levels.
If you look under your hood, you should see the port campaign number where the ECU code was altered. Because of the randomness of the places to which the cars shipped, the VIN ranges would not necessarily have to be in order. ie, some earlier VINs may have arrived after some later VINS. So, we can't really use VIN ranges to know whose car has what code. What we really need is a way read the version straight out of the ECU. This prolly requires a special tool of some sort."
Or this from mkoll on http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/Web...@.ef067e7/1291
"If neither of those conditions apply, there was a "port campaign" to reprogram the ECUs on early North American 8s (as noted by a "port campaign" sticker under the hood. The reason for reprogrammed ECUs on the early American RX8 deliveries was the fact that Mazda was concerned that the catalytic converters which gather moren than 100K miles may or may not pass the stringent Califonia emmissions. They don't know for a fact if they would fail, either. To be on the safe side, they reprogrammed the ECUs to guarantee the usefullness of the CATs past 100K miles. This, in turn, caused the HP claims to be restated (didn't affect the performance figures by the trade rags since the test cars had the reprogrammed ECUs). The reprogrammed ECUs caused the EVAP units to give off the wrong emmissions readings and the CEL to come on (that's what happened to mine). The solution was to put new EVAP units in the cars. If your VIN was affected, there's a TSB your dealer should have on how to fix."
02-09-2004, 02:17 PM
#39
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To add to this I don't think that it was CA. emissions laws. I believe that it was the EPA II standards that were released for 2004 cars but (unlike previous standards) also affected cars that would be sold in 2003 as a 2004 model year. That is the rumor as I understand it. I didn't know about the sticker though and I will be looking for it now.
02-09-2004, 03:42 PM
#40
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Sorry guys, too much assumption and not enough fact here for me. I'm signing off this thread. I read the other threads on the port campaign subject and all that came out of that was cross-eyes for me and what appears to be a new dipstick (metophorically) for customers. Everything else was heresay, nothing about emissions except clearance between sensors and the body of the vehicle. If you are interested in what your port campaign stickers mean, ask your dealer and post the results on a new thread. I'm interested.
02-09-2004, 05:54 PM
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Flooding with different ECU codes
Hi Guys this is my first posting in this forum.
I watch this forum since 3 weeks every day to be up to date
I came from old Europe near Zuerich.
I have watch since 1 month every German speaking Forum regarding RX8 on the web to.The German and Swiss forums.
Now i came to the point.
I have not see any any flooding issue here in the German speaking part of Europe .
Here in Switzerland we have cold temperatures around 19.5 degree Fahrenheit today.and no startproblems and floodings at all nowhere.It also have not much to do with revving the engine lot more becouse the Autobahn.Here in Switzerland is the speedlimit on the highway 75 Mile so maybee we drive 80
you can loose very easy your driverlicense here at 93 miles you loose your license for three month and the penalty is around 6000$ so we do not drive quick here.
So i wold realy say that the flooding issue have to do something with the fuel mappings.
I watch this forum since 3 weeks every day to be up to date
I came from old Europe near Zuerich.
I have watch since 1 month every German speaking Forum regarding RX8 on the web to.The German and Swiss forums.
Now i came to the point.
I have not see any any flooding issue here in the German speaking part of Europe .
Here in Switzerland we have cold temperatures around 19.5 degree Fahrenheit today.and no startproblems and floodings at all nowhere.It also have not much to do with revving the engine lot more becouse the Autobahn.Here in Switzerland is the speedlimit on the highway 75 Mile so maybee we drive 80
you can loose very easy your driverlicense here at 93 miles you loose your license for three month and the penalty is around 6000$ so we do not drive quick here.
So i wold realy say that the flooding issue have to do something with the fuel mappings.
02-09-2004, 07:15 PM
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With cars sitting on the lot needing to be moved every once in awile, we have never had any problems with them flooding. For the guy that starts his car every day for 5 mins is an idiot no matter what he is driving.. That is doing more damage than good. If the car is new, more than likely you havent broken it is yet. The car doesnt know who the boss is yet, drive the car.
Guys/ladies....get the loner...it is free and dont except anything less than what you are driving. Dont take their bullshit, the sale is not over till you sell the car. If some comes into my show room and has a problem with their rx-8 (luckily we have awesome predriven cars, i will not hesitate to put them in our used M3 or audi A6 3.0) I am not PROMOTING. Just tell you not to settle for a hyundai or geo prism.
joe
Guys/ladies....get the loner...it is free and dont except anything less than what you are driving. Dont take their bullshit, the sale is not over till you sell the car. If some comes into my show room and has a problem with their rx-8 (luckily we have awesome predriven cars, i will not hesitate to put them in our used M3 or audi A6 3.0) I am not PROMOTING. Just tell you not to settle for a hyundai or geo prism.
joe
02-10-2004, 03:11 AM
#46
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Originally posted by fietguy
oh, by the way, would anyone like to venture a guess as to the number of 8 owners out there that god forbid, drive the 8 like a normal car without any of the 'precautions' and have had no problems with whatsoever?
does 50% sound high?
anyone want to venture a guess?
oh, by the way, would anyone like to venture a guess as to the number of 8 owners out there that god forbid, drive the 8 like a normal car without any of the 'precautions' and have had no problems with whatsoever?
does 50% sound high?
anyone want to venture a guess?
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