rotarygod

It states "recommended". It does not say "not to be used". Mazda does not recommend service from anyplace other than a dealer. They do not recommend using aftermarket intakes. They do not recommend using aftermarket exhausts. They do not recommend installing turbos. They do not recommend anything other than original Mazda parts installed by the dealer. The fact of the matter is that there is nothing wrong with synthetics and that Mazda is just slow to jump on the bandwagon like every other manufacturer and change their position. That is why they helped to develop Idemitsu oil. It's nothing special and not worth going out of your way to buy but by them having a part in it and marketing it as "rotary specific" synthetic, it gives them a way to admit that synthetic oil is fine without coming out and completely reversing their previous statement. Japanese don't like to be told they are wrong and changing thir minds may be seen as a sign of weakness.

I've have been using synthetics in rotaries for far longer than the RX-8 has ever existed and I still have yet to have a single problem with it. I know many that use it.

limepro

so in socal where it reaches 100+ what would you recommend for the summer months?

rotarygod

Rick Engman used nothing but Valvoline synthetic in the Kudzu race cars that he built for Downing. This includes in the RX792P. Some people claim that Valvoline synthetic isn't a true synthetic since it is a Group III oil and not a Group IV PAO or a Group V. I do agree with this and also do consider it a "conventional" oil. The same people that claim it was OK to use this oil because it is a conventional will also say that a Group III is nothing more than more refined typical oil. Which part of "more refined" sounds bad? I never understood that. I've always said that if you are going to use a "conventional" oil, use the best most purely refined stuff out there. That means Group III. What's the difference? What does more refined mean? I've written in other threads extensively about this. The short answer is that the better refined it is (higher group), the more impurities have been removed from the base oil. The more impurities you have, the more help the base oil needs to work well and the faster and more prone it is to breakdown. Why is that a good thing to use again? Is it the few dollars per bottle savings?

When I spoke to Yamaguchi-san at Sevenstock, I asked him about synthetics. He is the current head of rotary development at Mazda and has been for many years now. There was no one better to ask. He stated that not all synthetics are created equal. The logic was that not all synthetics mix well with fuel from the oil metering system but please understand that he speaks very broken English, I speak no Japanese, and there was a lot of interpretation going on. I ran my own person tests to check how well oils mix with gasoline and every single one I tested, both synthetic and non synthetic mixed well and stayed mixed well with gas. That can't be it. I did ask specifically about Royal Purple, Idemitsu (of course he like it. HE helped formulate it!), and others. They have tested almost all of them. Royal Purple was good. He did not like Mobil 1. This is strange as it is the #1 selling synthetic oil in the world and I know many who have used it with no issues. There are different formulations around the world and they are constantly updating and changing them. You never know which one they tested and how long ago it was.

In the past Group IV synthetics were known to cause certain types of rubber seals in engine components to break down. However 2 important things have happened since then. First of all, seal technology has gotten better and newer seals are made out of different materials and aren't prone to this. The second is that this problem even with the old seals was able to be solved at the time of oil formulation. They could do it in one of 2 ways. They could add another additive which countered this effect or they could do some different work on the base oil at time of formulation that would not need an aditive but also would not cause harm to the seals. Needless to say this has been done, seals technology has improved, and this is no longer an issue. Sadly enough the old information has not been updated to the rest of the world and everyone still feels there is an issue with it. I also talked to an older gentleman a few years ago who told me rotary engines weren't reliable because the seals were made of carbon and wore too quickly. That was an issue solved over 30 years ago!

The world needs to wake up and get with the times. There are no issues with synthetics and rotaries. Anyone saying otherwise is uneducated on the topic.

rotarygod

Use a 30W oil. 30W, 5W30, 10W30, etc...

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Well said RG

Its a very good message to all those people, who just cry about

"Mazda does not recommended Synth Oil, so I will not use it*cough*cough*"

Its just funny that those people who refuse to use Full Synth Oil, because its not "recommended", and we often found these people with some aftermarket parts like a Midpipe + Exhaust on their rotary. or maybe as simple as a gas cap

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I Might be blind but seriously, I read my manual like 10 times, I just cant find that line.

Can you guide me to the light ? Page number would be nice.

Thanks !

rotarygod

I think it's funny too. They won't do something to their car because they are scared it might violate the warranty but they'll do other mods that might violate the warranty. I don't get it. Shouldn't that be an all or nothing standard? The sad thing is that aftermarket parts are hard to hide from the dealer. They can only find out if you have synthetic oil if you tell them!!! Again, why do people do this? No idea. They have no legal grounds to violate a warranty from using synthetic anyways but don't volunteer information if you are unsure. That's like getting in a wreck where the party at fault is in question and you just tell the cops "I did it". I don't understand some people's logic sometimes.

Again my question to the doubters is, what is so bad about a synthetic oil? I want a chemical analysis and not what someone recommends. I've done my homework and even gone out of my way to see firsthand how motor oils are made from all of their individual parts. I've seen zero proof in every single thread to support it being bad. None. In fact everything I've ever seen says the opposite. Since all oils, synthetic included, are petroleum products and they all use essentially the same chemicals/additives but in different proportions, what makes one with these ingredients bad while another one with these ingredients good? Remember the base stock is what determines if it is a "synthetic" or not. The additive packages are what actually makes it a motor oil and all oils use the same basic ingredients to get the job done. The strength of the oil is in the base stock though. Some additives are different but they aren't a trend between synthetics and nonsynthetics so you can't draw a correlation there. Keep in mind that while the Group IV and V base stock oils are different from the "conventional" Group I-III base stocks, they are still petroleum industry derived. Saying that, what makes them "synthetic"? There isn't some magic little chemist in a back room mixing up water, cracker jacks, and beer into some magically created base stock. It comes from somewhere and that somewhere is still a refined petroleum product. So why does the word "synthetic" scare people? Shouldn't the real concern be with how well the oil does it's job rather than what it's name is? It's all oil and it all does a job. Some are just better than others at what they do and we just happen to call them, perhaps inaccurately, "synthetics". Just remember that while all oils meet certain standards, even a "D-" in school is a passing grade. It's the "A+" student that gets to protect my engine.

dmc27

RG - do you live for this conversation? You must be either the most patient person in the world, or completely manic. How many of these oil debates do you have under your belt by now? Do you just copy and paste from a file on you desktop?

I've got one particular one that I've bookmarked and haven't quite completed yet, so far it's very amusing. You do provide quite a wealth of info, and I must agree that the whole discussion about not "recommended" seems simple. Seems like an obvious case of '***-covering' by Mazda. But I really can't understand how you can keep up with it.

rotarygod

I'm like an oil information superhero. As long as there is bad information out there, I will fight it!

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Excatly.

Im still waiting for Hightshoe to guide me to the light ! (Or whoever can!)

VRRX8

thanks, and by the way, i use that quaker or what ever , high RPM stuff

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

You should've use the Advance Q, since Advance Q is their top of the line product.

High RPM is for bigger engine. but ahh it should be fine for now.

I've tried Advance Q and I think its better than Castrol Syntec (the Full synth one), in terms of Feel and Idle and Smoothness wise

RX26b

You know, you really should have the name "man" (as in Spider, Bat, Super)somewhere in your title.

By the way, I've got 2 unopened cases of Redline 10W30 sitting in the garage for over 4 years now; my question is : how long is the shelf life of such oil?

stickman

Now that this one is 3 pages long let's start another oil thread. If not that, then lets get really silly. I put olive oil in my rx8 and it runs like a Ferrari. I changed from peanut oil because it was making me drive like a nut.

dillsrotary

i'm convinced that rotarygod can type 100 words per minute OR he's really a robot.

Stavesacre21

and if so...does he have powers?

and if so...does he use them for good or for awesome?

(strong bad)

dmc27

^ The most important question: does he run on synthetic oil?

rotarygod

I use Royal Purple in all of my cars. Even my daily driver Civic. That's all I will use. When I did use conventional oil, I used Havoline.

stickman

I'm sticking with the olive oil

Rhythmic

Which line of RP oil are you all using? Is it the regular, or the XPR (race oil). Which would be best for aggressive street and some track driving?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

reg,
5 w 30 going to 5 w 40 next jug here.

beers

tjbourgoyne

Put what feels right in your heart.

PerformRX-8

see I would love to use Full Synthetic Advanced Q from quakerstate, but my friend has an 8 and he said that mazda dealerships secretly swab your oil during an oil change or just service just to see what oil you are running in your car, to void your warranty.... I just don't want any problem you know... as of now i'm using Non-Synthetic Castrol GTX 5w-20, but I would love to make the switch to Advanced Q, just scared if my engine blows, plus I have an AEM intake...

rotarygod

First of all dealers don't do that. Secondly, they can't tell just by looking at it. They'd have to send it off somewhere for analysis since no dealership has the necessary equipment to determine what it is. Even breaking it down doesn't tell the whole story as all you will find is what additives are in it and what metals are in your engine. They'd have to go to great lengths and expense to find out if it is synthetic or not. This takes time and costs money. When dealers try to screw you over, they are trying to save time and money. Not exactly a technique that agrees with them as it actually takes effort. Throw that one to mythbusters. That's the dumbest conspiracy theory I've heard yet.

Rotor Rocket

What part of "do not use synthetic oil" do you not understand?

Once again, I must post the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

How many times do you have to read the warnings from both Mazda RX-8 Owner Manuals and the people that make the oil?

Read this info from Quaker State

http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/car...w.asp#warranty


Your engine will be seriously compromised by synthetic oil, so stop using it, go back to a good conventional GF-4 oil and hit the redline in some lower gears a few times. Hopefully, that might reverse the pending harm caused by synththetic oil.