whitebeau

hmmm See i question this reasoning if you look at how many people that have had their engines replaced, along with statements from Senior members of carbon buildup if engine isn't revved. Add in the factor that MNAO hasn't released any of their data from engine replacements, in combination of the 09' engine addition... Design flaw is suspect. And that could be a valid claim to extend the warranty. Unfortunately it doesn't help the community as a whole, since a likely lash back would be increased maintenance cost when quarter earnings are announced, causing the stock value of Mazda Motors to sink.. Making marketing and Board Members revisit cost vs return value on future production.... there's my rant again...

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

Did I do that?

How am I posting a poll "to people who are all biased about the issue?"

I honestly don't understand that assertion at all.

Anyone can vote in the poll, which has to do with whether Mazda should extend motor warranty coverage (and not whether the Renesis is or isn't inherently reliable), and they can post all the opinions they may hold till their hearts' content, too.

whitebeau

Lol... then why ask for an extended warranty if there is no concern of engine sustainability outside the warranty window? While we're at it I guess we could ask for for a lifetime warranty on the transmission since Chrysler is starting to do that now...

Reason it's a Biased opinion (Example: Going to a church and asking how many people in the church believe in God). To the same effect, the poll is skewed, since the statistics being queried are from people who visit this forum with a question or concern with their car.. (Some people call them Trolls). Match that to the total amount of rx-8's sold in the USA, there is a large margin for error/accuracy for the other percent of owners that have not voted....

Writing a letter to Mazda is a great idea. Chance of not getting PR Smoke? I'm not holding my breathe, their response is obvious in the 09' revision that couldn't wait until the next chassis iteration.

Shoafb

Is there a "how many engines have been replaced" thread on the Mustang forums?

SilverStreak

A while back when the Ford Probe and the Mazda MX-6 were produced (on the same assembly line) the Probe had a higher repair incidence than the MX-6. They were essentially the same car. But the Probe was bought by a younger segment that tended to use the car "harder". It isn't unusual to see that autos that are more sport oriented or more often modified tend to have higher repair incidences. Couple that with an engine that requires a bit more understanding and care like the rotary in the hands of people who never had to think about engine maintenance before...and it should not be a shock to have reliability that is less than a Honda sedan driven by the proverbial little old lady.

That said, I do believe that the 8 had teething problems but I also think that there is statistical bias on a forum such as this because people with engine problems would tend to look for answers here versus the "silent majority" of owners.

New Yorker

Exactly. Despite my repeated disclaimers that the results of the "has your engine been replaced" poll were NOT statistically valid - as the people that chose to respond were NOT a representative sample of all RX-8 owners - people are now citing that poll as evidence of Renesis unreliability.

Unbelievable.

Socket7

You don't think people who visit an RX-8 Forum just MIGHT be biased about the issue of the RX-8's warranty?

If you posted this on a general mazda forum, I might see your point. but i bet everyone there will say "I want an extended warranty" and then follow that with "Whats wrong with the 8 that it needs one?"

Rems31

well there is a negative stigma on the rotary engine...so if you really believed in it you can give an extended warranty to put people's fears at bay.

It's like H&R block who guarantee their work. If they filed your return incorrectly and the gov't orders you to pay, then H&R would pay that amount since they guaranteed their work. Similar thing. Does that mean that there's something inherently wrong with the way they prepare your taxes?! They stand behind their work and are willing to back it up.

But on that note, I don't see Mazda doing this.

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

Thank you.


I'm relieved that some people are grasping the fundamental point that I (and apparently, a lot of people voting on this poll), are making.

I don't know if the Renesis is or isn't more or less reliable than the VQ in the 350Z. I do know that there is a palpable impression that it's less so, whether that judgment is flawed or not. Maybe some statistician with reams of data in some brightly lit cubicle knows the true answer to that question.

And getting a longer warranty on the motor isn't the main goal, although it would be nice. The main goal is to support resale value.

If you don't think there's a perception that the Renesis is more prone to reliability problems than competing motors, then vote no, and post your opinion however you want.

I personally think that you've been living under a rock if you think that, fwiw. And the fact that Mazda is adding an OMP to the '09 Renesis, as many people have mentioned in this thread, is somewhat revealing in at least supporting the actual point that the existing design had a problem that needed redress.

whitebeau

Even if you get an extended warranty, and they replace it with the same version, you will not get the benefit of the changes to 09'... Extending a warranty will not absolve this issue. Now a Recall would...

And to clarify, 09's get a 1 additional oil injector per rotor, OMP (I haven't confirmed) is fully electronically managed by the PCM, Bigger oil pan. They've also revised the rpm limiter during warm up, so you are cap'd until the engine fully warms up.

Midust well take care of your engine now, as getting a new one will still bring the same issue at hand if oil maintenance isn't sustained.

I voted no, because an extended warranty doesn't combat this. Even though i just had my engine replaced, having a better understanding now on how oil longevity is key will let me make sure this new motor will last 100k+ miles.

Benjamz

man, i bought mine used.. but i did get an extended warantey.. 7yr 100k miles

i bought it in oct 07.. the car is a 04 6spd gt.. it now has 22.5k miles on it

a little over 5k miles a year... crazy huh!!!!

claus

..... so mazda IS listening after all !!!

cont'd in: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/8-years-100-000-mi-extended-warranty-147287/

RotoRocket, you were right, ....party on !!!

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

I really respect Mazda for stepping up to the plate on this issue, regardless of their true motive for doing so.

I do think Mazda recognized that a design issue may have been causing the failures in pre-09 motors, hence the reason for the addition of a 3rd oil metering pump.

Regardless, this is consistent with Mazda doing the right thing, which seems to be their modus operandi (which is one reason I'm becoming 'brand loyal' to Mazda), as further evidenced here (Jeremy Barnes is quoted in the article, making Mazda look good, again):



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120942873506551291.html


A Crushing Issue:

How to Destroy Brand-New Cars
Mazda Forced to Design A 'Disassembly' Line After Odd Sea Disaster

By JOEL MILLMAN
April 29, 2008; Page A1

PORTLAND, Ore. -- "Fire in the hole!" shouts Ron Hoodenpyle, covering his ears and stepping away from a brand-new Mazda 3 he just wired with special detonators. Suddenly, all six of the car's airbags explode at once.

Within hours the metallic blue sedan will be drained, gutted, squished and shredded -- one of thousands to meet the same fate here. The cars are so new, most don't even have 10 miles on the odometer.

Auto makers usually try to find the best way to build new vehicles. These days, Mazda Motor Corp. is busy figuring out how to most efficiently destroy them.

It all started about two years ago, when a ship carrying 4,703 shiny new Mazdas nearly sank in the Pacific. The freighter, the Cougar Ace, spent weeks bobbing on the high seas, listing at a severe 60-degree angle, before finally being righted.

The mishap created a dilemma: What to do with the cars? They had remained safely strapped down throughout the ordeal -- but no one knew for sure what damage, if any, might be caused by dangling cars at such a steep angle for so long. Might corrosive fluids seep into chambers where they don't belong? Was the Cougar Ace now full of lemons?

The Japanese car maker, controlled by Ford Motor Corp., easily could have found takers for the vehicles. Hundreds of people called about buying cheap Mazdas. Schools wanted them for auto-shop courses. Hollywood asked about using them for stunts.

Mazda turned everyone away. It worried about getting sued someday if, say, an air-bag failed to fire properly due to overexposure to salty sea air.

It also worried that scammers might find a way to spirit the cars abroad to sell as new. That happened to thousands of so-called "Katrina cars" salvaged from New Orleans' flooding three years ago. Those cars -- their electronics gone haywire and sand in the engines -- were given a paint job and unloaded in Latin America on unsuspecting buyers, damaging auto makers' reputations.

No Easy Way

Mazda saw no easy way to guard against these outcomes. So it decided to destroy approximately $100 million worth of factory-new automobiles. "We couldn't run the risk of damaging the brand name that Mazda worked so hard over the years to develop," says Jeremy Barnes, the company's corporate-affairs director for North America.

It turns out that wrecking cars isn't a simple matter. "We had to create a disassembly line, basically," says Bob Turbett, the Mazda executive overseeing the destruction process.


Paying a "list" price: The Cougar Ace struggling in 2006; its cargo of Mazdas is now being shredded.

It took more than a year to devise a plan that satisfied everyone. The city of Portland wanted assurance that nearly 5,000 cars' worth of antifreeze, brake fluid and other hazardous goop wasn't mishandled. Insurers covering Mazda's losses wanted to be sure the company wouldn't resell any cars or parts -- thereby profiting on the side. So every steel-alloy wheel has to be sliced, every battery rendered inoperable, and every tire damaged beyond repair. All CD players must get smashed.

Discharging Airbags

Little things make a big difference. For instance, most of the cars have six airbags, and discharging them individually (forcing them to inflate so they can't be resold) takes about five minutes apiece -- or a total of a half-hour per car. So engineers back at Mazda's headquarters, in Hiroshima, fashioned a device that can discharge all six at once. Multiplied by 4,703 cars, that trick alone saved months of work.

Mazda declined to put a price tag on the demolition, which was covered by insurance. The company says all its insurance claims have been settled.

The process runs with startling efficiency. It begins when longshoremen take the cars from the freighter and drive them to a nearby lot where the airbags get destroyed by men like Mr. Hoodenpyle.

On a recent day, dressed in a white jumpsuit and wearing goggles, he twiddled a few ***** on his special airbag detonator, and pushed a button. The staccato pop-pop-pop of exploding bags sounded like the muffled gunshots of a wise-guy assassination in a gangster film.

A forklift next piles the cars onto trailers for a brief ride to Pacific Car Crushing. There it takes about 45 minutes to prepare each Mazda for flattening. Steel-alloy wheels are sliced with high-power saws to make sure they won't be resold. Holes are drilled into every tire.

Mazda insists that armed guards patrol the site to deter pilferage. One guard keeps watch as catalytic converters, rich with precious metals like platinum, are removed. Parts like these have a street value of hundreds of dollars apiece.

The cars get placed into a crusher that applies 25,000 pounds per square inch of pressure, flattening them into colorful slabs.

Next stop: Schnitzer Steel, a salvage yard down on the waterfront that's home to an immense metal grinder. "You turn 7,000-horsepower hammers loose on them, and they're eaten in 10 seconds," says Jamie Wilson, Schnitzer's manager. A bemused smile spreads across his face as another load of Mazdas disappears into its maw.

Moments later, metal shards -- most no bigger than an ashtray -- sprinkle onto a mountain of scrap near Schnitzer's dock. There, a freighter prepares to take the scrap back to Asia where it will get recycled.

Mr. Wilson looks on and concludes: "It'll all probably end up coming back as cars."

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

Wait....

You guys don't think that....really?

This thread may have had something to do with the extended warranty?

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

its too close in proximity. to go through the bureaucracy of a corporation takes longer than just a few months. especially on something large as an extended warranty on tens of thousands of cars.

but it may be possible they fast tracked it so that the warranty would be in place with the 2009s. its also possible it was already on the table along with the 2009s.

it is possible that you are the reason we have the extended warranty. imo, not likely, but i think its very possible.

kudos to you in any regard.

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

Thanks to Mazda stepping up to the plate, depreciation rates on used 8s have rebounded somewhat, as the motor warranty is fully transferable, and the 8 has grown a reputation as something of a sports car bargain in the used car world.

I've noticed this as I've had multiple offers to purchase my 8 for full asking price, even though I can't yet sell it, as we've not yet gotten a replacement.

I am selling it only if I can find a replacement very soon, and am driving the newly refined CX-7 this week, in both turbo and N/A mode.

The CX-9 is too big for our needs, but the CX-7 seems just right, although I did wish for a little more rear leg room, given that we just had our first child this last year.

And one of the main reasons I'm strongly leaning towards Mazda again? Because they stepped up to the plate on the motor issue (and the whole issue with those ocean cargo vessel tilted ship - where they decided to destroy the cars rather than risk having undetected problematic cars go to market).

Of course, if Mazda didn't offer such a performance/value proposition, we'd be looking elsewhere for our next car, but they do, and we aren't.

This will make Mazda number 3 for us in the last 4 years (my 8, a 2009 Mazda 6, and the CX-7 if we buy it).

...in large part because of Mazda standing behind their product.

Kaiser bun

iTrader: (2)

lol at first i was reading this thread and was like wow this idiot doesn't realize that our engine warranty is 100,000 miles already... then i looked at the date and was like ooohhhhhh ic now. haha anyways, yes i am defiantly proud with most of the experiences i have had with them, especially their phone customer service. Their system was down when i called to see if my warranty was still active (bumper to bumper) they said they would call my house back and let me know when there system is back up, sure enough about an hour later they called and told me my wararnty expires on april 21st 2010.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Agreed. I have been through the ringer personally with Toyota, professional with GM, and completely regardless of car quality, I am not willing to give them a dime of my money. Each for a different reason. Toyota the most starkly contradictory to Mazda, in that they rely on factory quality to make their cars last, and not only put no effort into post-purchase support, they actively distance themselves from not only their buyers, but their dealerships as well.

Mazda supports their products, and it is shown in many many ways. From the RX-8 warranty extension, to the shipwreck, to the Mazda5 recall over 1 fire. Just 1! And they issued the recall before they knew the fix or even the cause, giving the owners loaner cars while they figured it out, and stopped the sale of any further Mazda5 until it was resolved. Contrast that with Chevy (or was it Ford?) which found that in a set of circumstances a particular model might catch fire. They ran the numbers, and decided it was cheaper for them to settle every lawsuit and pay for damages than it was to recall and fix the problem, potentially saving lives.

Even their support of owners using their cars competitively shows an embracing of their philosophy, not just a salesman's tag line. Honda had a commerical a while ago about "heritage of racecars" or something, but their warranty is also voided if you race it. Hypocrisy that I am continually glad that Mazda does not take part in.

We are on our 2nd (Mazda5) and 3rd (RX-8) Mazdas, and within a year will be getting our 4th, trading in the 5 for a CX-7, 3, or MS3. Even my wife won't consider anything other than a Mazda. The Mazda5 recall made a huge impact on her.