Ike

I haven't, I was going to give it a fair shot before I picked up an Evo or STI. Then I saw how much it weighed and got less excited, it also seemed to not have enough rubber and was doing poorly in mag comparos, then what cinched it are the countless owners having boost cut issues. Mazda needs to stop releasing poorly tuned cars with ECU issues.

DreRX8

I needed to put this bottle down Oh wait...Ike DID say that

Mikeluvs8

i driven the ms6 i think mazda did a real good job on it, i like them both, there both really fun cars to drive.but i love the rotary in my 8.

Zaknel'il

I've driven both, and I'm getting an 8-

Yes its slightly faster in a straight line, but I don't like how it handled (more understeer then I would have liked) , it had some pretty bad turbo lag, and its a sedan body... no thanks. And whats with that hood bulge?

RazzyBRX-8

the hood buldge s for the intercooler

therm8

not if the temperature is 98F+

shinka213

IMO it really depends on what you want...if I were you I would read the article in road and track and pits the M6 against its counterparts ie the audi, bmw, volvo, ie believe the legacy GT etc....

its a great article....

the M6 is a sport sedan: - granted its fast but doesnt handle well, its very roomy ...so its nice for the family, etc

the RX8 - not the fastest on the block, but the handling is superb even with everything stock....the looks are a major plus....and its a SPORTS CAR not sedan...

if I was looking for a fast (turbo) AWD sports sedan I wouild get the legacy spec...no question on that...

of couse, I picked the 8 for all the reasons above and MORE!!!

fizzer

If by Speed 6 you mean one of these....


Then go for the speed 6

Beodude123

I think you mean interheater...



I think the main reason that people have boost falling off (after 4K rpms I believe) is because when they got them off the boats, the dealerships had to put gas in there. They used low grade gas, and the Speed 6 pretty much NEEDS 91 octane. When it figures out that the gas sucks, it opens the wastegate at 4K.

Tirminyl

No the MS6 pretty much NEEDS 93. I don't think thats the issue anymore. People still experienced poblems with the right fuel.

You have got to be kidding me.

mkztg

We own a '06 MS6 and my '04 RX-8.

I can tell you that the MS6 is faster but the 8 handles better. the MS6 REQUIRES super unleaded whereas the 8 just suggests it (I put super in both) The MS6 gets better MPG too.

The MS6 has more room inside and that is our "family car". We use it when we take a family outing.

Coolness factor: I'll take my 8 over the MS6 anyday. As far as being fast, I wish my 8 had as much HP as the MS6. I just wouldn't want to sacrifice anything for it.

Here area few pics...

puch96

Be careful with that statement...EVO's have reliability problems in general.

Rich Rx-8

If you're thinking about anything else than the Rx-8, wait and check out the Mazdaspeed 3. The Mazdaspeed 6 feels crazy fast and throws you back into the seat, especially in the passenger seat. Still wait for the Mazdaspeed 3 it's got the SAME engine as the Mazdaspeed 6.

RotaryRider36

Not too many reliability issues with the evo at all. Sure the interior is known to fall apart, and at least earlier models had serious problems with paint chipping. Other than that, the motor is tried and true. Nothing short of slamming it into a brick wall is gonna hurt that car. I remember hearing about some 3rd gear synchro problems and cracking transfer cases in the 03's and some 04's but havent heard anything about that in the 05's and 06's. I think if the MS6 was a car they were going to produce every year, it would probably turn out to be very reliable and the little issues would be fixed. Many cars have issues the first year or two that they are released. Its just that with a car like the MS6 which may only be around for one or two model years like the older mazdaspeed versions, there may not be enough time to correct these little kinks that find their way into the system.

crossbow

Some MPS 6 notes...

The 4k rpm issue was because of detonation issues. (Either false or real) This was either due to an oversensitive knock sensor, or actual tuning issues due to the lesser quality gas available in america. The best way to reproduce the MPS 6 power loss was to fill your car up with friends, and try driving up an incline at 3k rpm. The detonation event (false or real) always occured at low rpm's (3k or so) with high load.

The boost actually didn't get cut at 4k. What happens when the PCM detects a knock event, is it forces the throttle postiion sensor to read a maximum of 33%. So regardless of user input, even with the throttle on the floor, the car only sees 33% Until the vehicle is shut off and turned back on. (Microsoft windows problem).

Mazda has released a fix for this issue, and its currently available at dealerships through a PCM reflash.
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?t=5055

If you are buying a speed 6, I would ensure you had the reflash before leaving the dealership.

The secondary boost drop at 5500 rpm is caused by the tuning and turbo sizing of the car. The vehicle is tuned entirely for low end torque (think truck engine), and thus falls on its face in the upper rev range. Most owners find they get faster trap times if they shift around 5700 rpm, then if they try to take it to redline.

Here's the torque curve to illustrate the point.

The torque dropoff between 5500 and 6500 is almost 100 ft/lbs. The torque off the line is absolutely incredible though, and its quite obvious how mazda felt this car should be used...in day to day driving. Freaking lowend torque is almost a vertical line.

As for the AWD system...it's a haldec type unit, with no center differential, no front LSD, and an rx8 rear differential. (With your "super LSD"). The maximum power to the rear the car can transfer in a straight line is 50%. When the sensors are not centered, the maximum the rear bias can be is 10%, as there is no center differential to compensate for the fact the front tires and rear tires are moving at different speeds in a turn.

As for performance, the best unmodified times (except for some extra octane) are 13.7@ 97.8 mph.

This car does have some potential to be tuned, both because of Mazda's A/F curve of suck (see below), the interwarmer sitting on top of the engine with no air outlet, and the nice fat precat and maincat sitting in the exhaust stream. However massive gains in the upper rev range will be impossible without resizing the turbo, or changing wheels/compressor sizing, which of course will require tuning, which no 6 has yet to see in the past 4 years.



Hope that helps answer some of the questions/issues raised in this thread.

sti_eric

This is a Speed 6:


This is Mazda's half-assed attempt at an AWD turbo:


Please don't sully the name of the TVR by calling the Mazda a 'Speed 6'.

Tirminyl

^^Ditto-

This is a M6:


This is the Mazdaspeed 6 or MS6:


Thanks for the info Crossbow!

missinmahseven

If you have to ask, then you've never driven a real sports car.

Since you're still thinking speed and power are more important than anything else, do us a favor, get the MS6, and leave this place.

If you're curious as to the difference, do this:

1. Drive the 6. Bask in the glory of brute power.

2. Drive a Miata. Feel how the car talks to you, and does your will instantly, as if reading your mind. Bask in the glory of a brilliant chassis.

3. Drive the 8. Does what the Miata does, just does it quicker, and more smoothly.

If after that you still don't get it, get the 6 -- or an SRT4, or any other tarted up grocery getter. If you don't see the light after a few minutes in a Miata or an 8, then you're not cut for sports cars, and should consider something more normal and mainstream.

No shame in that, few people actually have the open-mindedness to drive real sports cars.

Rootski

iTrader: (1)

Road and Track timed the MS6 .3 seconds slower than the RX-8 in the quarter. They're neck and neck, really. I guess people assume the MS6 is faster because it has an extra 40hp.

Rootski

iTrader: (1)

Yes, it's far too good looking to be a proper sports sedan. It'd be a much better performer with a giant wing, heinous wheels, and a knife wound on the hood.



Hawt.

Ike

That car was having some issues, see Crossbow's post above for an example of possibilities. If you want to say that the MS6 when not running properly is neck and neck with the Rx-8 go for it. When running properly the MS6 IS faster.

DreRX8

Yeah--the MS6 is a low 5 second 0-60 car, if its running right its nearly neck and neck with the Legacy GT--that said, while I like the MS6 I wouldn't buy one over the Legacy GT. Definately wouldn't get it over the RX8.

Xantium

Could be the extra 120 ft/lbs of torque...

crossbow

At 2,000 rpm, the MS6 is making roughly 130 ft/lbs of torque to the ground.
(Roughly the maximum torque output of an rx8)
At 3,000 rpm its producing nearly at 240 ft/lbs of torque to the wheels.

The car is wicked fast off the line. The 8 is no competition to the MS6 in a straight line (if you happen to be american and only care about how fast your car is from light to light).

And rootski...there are some very nice looking sti's. Not everyone likes the big wing and hood scoop.

nez

i drove both cars and i have to admit off the line the MS6 wins hands down. but the fun factor "twisties", look & modification factor of the Rx8 wins in my books. my0.02