Rachlayyy8

Im just baffeled at how youll are helping out... i cant thank youll enough...

the guys are at my house in Melb right now and i mean even if they cant get it started i still cant thank youll enough for atleast trying...

(guys make my mom make you lunch or something lol....)


THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

Rachlayyy8

Mazurfer

Okay, Bastage and I are back now and the car is ALIVE (to some degree). I need to go get my hands clean, a quick snack, a drink, and then I'll fill everyone in. We do need some help from some of you........I'll explain in a few minutes. I'm also going to PM a few people(more expert than certainly I at least). Both Bastage and I are pretty sure we know what's up now, but we want more opinions. Be back in a few!



Your mom pulled out some pics while we were there!

Mazurfer

Okay, here is what we did. I'll try not to forget anything as I always leaving steps out causes nothing but confusion. If I do.........hopefully Bastage will edit. Remember she supposedly had someone do a compession check and it came out low, but he never started the car, so I for one didn't really believe that.
It ran one day and not the next, so I along with others just think it was flooded.


We first looked under the bonnet to see if we could find anything obvious. Nothing really of note except the hose from the oil filler neck was disconnected from the intake as the plastic nipple had been snapped of at some time in the past. We decided to just plug this up at the intake for the time being.

I haven't looked, but the hose on the intake closest to the one above was also busted. What is that one? I can't remember and haven't look yet....old timers ya know! Anyway..........even though that was busted, we had no elbow pieces............so we moved forward. EDIT.....................This one is now known to be the air flow, so it probably caused the P0100 code we saw.............Mass Airflow Problem. Besides this..........no other codes were seen.


Basically we pulled the plugs, they were soaked.

Cleaned them and set aside.

Pulled the fuel pump relay

Turned the motor over to clear out the chambers.
Of course this took quite awhile and was spitting oil/gas mixture for about 8 or so times(giving the starter time to rest in between).

Installed plugs, checked that proper connections to the coils were made(right order as they had been changed recently), we also checked that the right electrical connectors were on the right coils.(I had my laptop with me and we had the manual files to look at)

First couple of times after the above it was a no go.

Went through the above at least three more times with not much luck. Pull plugs, clean, I had brought and extra set, so we were changing out the wet ones while others were drying out.

Need to say something hear that might be important later. As we were going through this scenario time and time again. We started to notice that even with the fuel pump relay out, we would get oil/gas mixture and more white smoke out of the plug holes far longer time than if Bastage held the accelerator pedal all the way to the floor(even though the relay was out)..............WTF?

Anyway...............on about the fifth time through, the car started, I plugged in the fuel relay and then the car died. I don't think it was me plugging in the relay......we are blaming Bastage as he was the one working the throttle!

Okay.............so after it dies we knew we were getting close(or so we thought).

Pull the plugs again, pull the relay, dry the plugs, etc.
Suffer the smoke and spitting out the plug holes until we feel it's dry again.
Re-install everything. We may have actually had to go through this twice, but eventually the car started. This time Bastage made sure it wouldn't stall out on us.

Okay..............now for the results and where we need help.

Bastage had to keep the pedal just about all the way to the floor or at least 3/4 to keep the idle. While he was exercising his right foot, I put the wheel on, took the car off the jack stands and got it all level. Guess at least I was thinking that maybe the fuel was having trouble flowing uphill..........WTF do I know?

Okay............the car is now on level ground, it will not idle on it's own. He's damn near got it floored. I'm looking around the engine bay to see what I can tell. We didn't throw a vacuum gauge on it as we didn't have one readily available.
As we sit there and let it idle, the water temp comes up and passes 200 degrees. I'm really not sure I ever heard the fan come on but at this point but the car never passed 209 degrees. I know that's hot, but we were at idle a long time. I think we agreed at that point and Bastage did turn on the A/C. I for sure heard than fan kick on and run, just not sure about the other. The fan for the A/C was cycling.

So at this point, with no ugly sounds from the engine............meaning it sounds okay........other than the throttle seems to have no effect, he puts it into reverse and backs out of the driveway..........remember at just about full throttle, but the car just barely moves(maybe 3mph tops). He then attempts to drive it up the block, gets the stinkeye from an oriental lady who can't decide to pass him or not.
This whole time, the car won't do over 3-4mph. I don't think this is limp mode and remember the Scangauge is registering nothing. Well, he stops at the end of the street and reverses all the way back to the house and then pulls it in the driveway. At this point he shuts it off...............and of course after 20 seconds we can't stand it, so we attempt to restart................it's a no go.

At this point we were into it a good 3 1/2 hours and started discussing what we think. So.................what do you guys think? I don't want to spout out anything, but I have two guesses at this point.

Oh.....at some point I decided to check all the fuses in the engine bay and all were found to be okay.......thought I better mention this. Don't know when I did it, but don't think it matters.

We surmised that the engine is okay............does that sound plausible?
Would no or little compression act this way? With the exception of no throttle
response, the car sounds okay.

Awaiting the bashes or help!

Dave

Kane

iTrader: (1)

The broken nipple; is that the jet air hose?

Did you cap that? - it needs a high volume of air to work.

Did the scanguage read throttle position correctly?

Kane

iTrader: (1)

I gotta go build a bridge - literally...

If you need to talk to me; PM me again with your number and I'll try to call ya.

Mazurfer

Interesting..........I'm not sure what the Scangauge said as I was outside the car. Not sure Bastage ever looked at Scangauge for that, but I know where you are going with that. Damn it, I wish we would've looked.

Is it the air hose? Not sure........all I know is standing in front of the car, and those three hoses all connect on the left side of the intake tube area, the bottom on runs over to the oil filler neck, so we did plug that one.........although we knew it wouldn't matter. The next is the one where the plastic 90 degree piece was busted. We did not cap this one at either end. The final one that sits basically on top was okay. So, it's the middle one I'm after. I'll go look at the manuals and you go build a bridge!
High volume...........well if I find out that is the air hose, then it basically had nothing. The hose would appear to run somewhere over by the SSV actuator.

Guess nipple might be the wrong term.........how's about plastic hose connector.


Definitely goes to the Air Valve Actuator!!!! "13-758" are busted pieces

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

Did you guys look into the radiator to see if it had coolant?
I'm kinda stumped right now.
Did the engine sound "Even" when you cranked it over? I mean did it go,, (bear with me) 1,1,1,1,1 or did it go 1,1,2,1,1,2. Did the compression sound even?

Bastage

iTrader: (1)

It sounded very even. Even when I was able to get the revs up to 3000. The engine sound great. We just had no real throttle response. Once the RPMS came down, I had trouble keeping them over ~750. Ultimately I had to put my foot to the floor. I pretty much kept it there as I put the car in reverse and backed out of the driveway, and then turned up the street and got passed by an old lady in what I think was a beat up old Hyundai.

I didn't shut down the car, it stalled on me after I got off of the throttle and got back onto it (after I parked it).

The engine sounded fine. The coolant looked very clean, and the level was fine (we didn't actually looked into the radiator though), but I don't think the car was in danger of overheating.

The oil looked fine.

BTW, I did check the scan gauge after we parked it, and there were no codes.

Mazurfer

Coolant bottle had coolant, didn't actually take the cap off the radiator and look, but not real worried the water temp right now.
I know what you mean and it sounded just fine............nice and even. I was actually surprised and we really focused on this while it was sitting there, but of course he did have the accelerator pressed. Pumping the accelerator(you know what I mean), had no effect at all............with the exception of letting it off completely, then it would die. To keep it close to 800rpm, his foot was at least 3/4ths if not more, to the floor.
We ran out of time for the day after nursing it back into the driveway.

Is our throttle control mechanical or electrical? I should know this, but I don't. Is there any electrical portion of it?


Bastage...how'd I do................did I get anything wrong or miss anything important?
Since you were in the car for the majority of the time.........did you ever see a CEL at all? I know we didn't on the Scangauge...........just curious.

heyarnold69

iTrader: (1)

check the thermostat -- stuck open? stuck close?

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

Check the MAF wires and I would go ahead and make sure the air filter is clean. Sounds like the MAF could have issues. If you have some MAF cleaner use it.
If your having to floor it it sounds like an air fuel issue. Sounds like the engine is OK. Could use a good SeaFoaming though from the amount of gunk that was coming out of it.

?

Mazurfer

Thought about the MAF........wiggled the connector a little bit while it was still running. No effect. Might have to look at it further.
Did you see that the hose coming from the air actuator was NOT plugged into the intake because the plastic hose connection was broken?


You guys are coming to some different conclusions or thoughts than we did, so it's good!
I am now more concerned over that air hose not being there, but I'm just not sure it would make the car act the way it did.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

It could be that the fuel pump is bad or the filter is clogged. I don't know about the vacuum line, which one it is and what it's for.

Mazurfer

Now you're getting close to what we were thinking or leaning towards!

I was reading StealthTL's thread about the sock the other day. Wouldn't that be ironic! This car does have a boatload of miles on it.
I'm reading up on how best to check fuel flow right now..............besides the obvious and I'm not doing that!

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like an Air/Fuel issue to me. It's not getting enough of one or the other.

Mazurfer

We were thinking fuel, but after what Kane said above knowing that air line was off............makes me wonder. not enough air, too much fuel, might explain the apparent re-flooding. Hence are inability to restart ofter shutdown. I'll bet we have to deflood it again. Her brother now knows this procedure now after seeing it 15 times!


Now we need to figure out how to remove those broken hose connectors off the accordian tube. I pried a little bit, but I'm not gonna just pry the crap out of them until I know that's how you have to do it. Might just take the whole tube off and see from the inside, as it will allow us to look at the MAF and into the throttle body as well.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

far from a pro but it sounds like you're getting plenty of fuel.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

If those have been broken for a long time,, I would wonder how much dirt went down the intake.
If they are open holes on the intake then it will throw the MAF off a bit.

Rachlayyy8

You guys are so amazing!!!i really cant thank any of you enough for helping out and giving ideas!!!



btw cant believe she pulled out pictures? let me guess, senior pictures? or did she go even further back?! lol thank you so much for going to my house and talk to my brother and mom and looking at the car!!!

zoom44

hi glad to see you guys are helping out with this. the throttle is all drive by wire. so throttle position sensors there are 2. there were no codes at all beside the com code?

xr4racer

'Check to see if the throttle valve is opening when pushing the gas pedal, try a different throttle valve or a different accelerator pedal if it is not.

zoom44

i think this has been covered but the hoses that were busted at eh intake- you plugged the other end so no leak there? also if there is air getting in those holes in the tube behind the MAF you have un-metered air entering the engine (weird i just said those same words at the dyno in Seattle) which can cause all kinds of havoc. did you take the intake off from the throttle body forward?

you should check to see if the o2 sensor is fried from the heat.

if you had fuel getting in while cranking with the relay out then you have a leaking injector

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

Lets run through this.
You have new coils so they're good.
You have new plug wires,, they're good.
You have new plugs,, they're OK
Anyway we have pretty much eliminated the ignition system. At least the most common issues.
Next you have fuel.
Hence the flooding. Fuel seems to be abundant.
That leaves Air.
The MAF..
Then you have the throttle body. Electrically controlled by the Pedal Position Sensor.

Is it possible that one of these has an issue?

Easiest test would be to turn the ignition on and floor it.
This would also enable you to check the throttle body operation. Of course removing the intake tube would help.

Just sounds like the engine is not getting any air to me.

zoom44

no air OUT no air IN. cooked the cat from the flood. Pull the cat see if it runs then.