An RX-8 Sport Wagon
11-19-2002, 12:57 PM
#151
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Seeing how this is my first post here, some of you may know me from www.rx7club.com. In any case I saw this thread an put this together real quick. Enjoy.
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11-19-2002, 08:10 PM
#154
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Originally posted by zoom44
someone please make this thread stop. please. its like undead. it keeps coming back. someone put a stake in it already.
someone please make this thread stop. please. its like undead. it keeps coming back. someone put a stake in it already.
Last edited by ZoomZoom; 12-03-2002 at 10:32 PM.
12-04-2002, 11:53 AM
#155
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Thanks for the Pic Post
Finally a good looking version of what this car might look like in wagon form. Thanks very much for the post. There's no reason the RX-8 Wagon would need to be ugly and finally wagons are making a comeback in the USA. It definitely does resemble the Alfa-Romeo Brera concept as noted earlier in this thread. Sorry all you RX-7 fans but the RX-8 Wagon idea just won't die! Suck it up and admit that you were wrong :D.
Just read the review of the first drives in Auto Week and Motor Trend magazines. They indicated a luke warm liking to the car and noted the lack of torque output compared to conventional engines. Looks like the RX-8 won't hit the market with nearly the praise that the Infiniti G35 has garnered. Further reason for Mazda to differentiate itself with a sports wagon.
Just read the review of the first drives in Auto Week and Motor Trend magazines. They indicated a luke warm liking to the car and noted the lack of torque output compared to conventional engines. Looks like the RX-8 won't hit the market with nearly the praise that the Infiniti G35 has garnered. Further reason for Mazda to differentiate itself with a sports wagon.
12-04-2002, 06:32 PM
#156
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Originally posted by zoom44
someone please make this thread stop. please. its like undead. it keeps coming back. someone put a stake in it already.
someone please make this thread stop. please. its like undead. it keeps coming back. someone put a stake in it already.
Windy - how's the Aerio Wagon doing?
12-10-2002, 05:30 PM
#157
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Re: An RX-8 Sport Wagon
Originally posted by windahdah
This may sound wild but I think the RX-8 would be perfect if only I could haul my dog in it too! Make it and I will buy one for sure.
This may sound wild but I think the RX-8 would be perfect if only I could haul my dog in it too! Make it and I will buy one for sure.
12-11-2002, 11:21 AM
#158
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Dreams do come true
I was reading this morning while taking my AMBM that Infiniti is market testing the G35X WAGON concept. I guess the RX8 Wagon won't be the first affordable sports wagon to come to market after all. Unfortunate because it would be the most handsome and far lighter. Either way the G35 Wagon has way more torque, gets the same mileage and has a far bigger back seat than would the RX8 Wagon. Still Mazda had better not miss the next coming wave just as it has the past several (Minivans and SUV's come to mind).
The Suzuki Aerio SX Wagon is going great thanks for asking Pelucidor...it only weighs 2600 lbs and has and engine that makes 135lb/ft of TORQUE at a very low 3000 RPM (gee that's nearly as much torque as the RX8 at a way lower RPM), so it scoots around nicely. The 5spd is a joy to shift and I've added new 16" wheels/tires, so the handling is better than stock. I've also added an AEM CAI so power is up to around 155 or so and I have yet to add the cat back exhaust which should put me around 165 HP at 6000 RPM. I plan to add a FSTB soon too and may add the aftermarket rear swaybar and bushings from Progressive. There's a big brake kit and short shifter kit too but that may have to wait. Springs are out, I want some ride quality...Watch out for Aerio SX's coming to the Autocross scene soon. Best of all we moved recently and you wouldn't believe how the little sucker swallowed box load after box load. It looks different for sure but after the wheels and the tinted windows it make other the other cars I park next to look so old school. The biggest smile of all comes when I think that I paid only US$16K for it and got 0% financing for 60 mos. Don't ask the car mags what they think about it though they hate it because...IT HAS A DIGITAL SPEEDOMETER!!! Oh yeah, so does the RX8...Right??
The Suzuki Aerio SX Wagon is going great thanks for asking Pelucidor...it only weighs 2600 lbs and has and engine that makes 135lb/ft of TORQUE at a very low 3000 RPM (gee that's nearly as much torque as the RX8 at a way lower RPM), so it scoots around nicely. The 5spd is a joy to shift and I've added new 16" wheels/tires, so the handling is better than stock. I've also added an AEM CAI so power is up to around 155 or so and I have yet to add the cat back exhaust which should put me around 165 HP at 6000 RPM. I plan to add a FSTB soon too and may add the aftermarket rear swaybar and bushings from Progressive. There's a big brake kit and short shifter kit too but that may have to wait. Springs are out, I want some ride quality...Watch out for Aerio SX's coming to the Autocross scene soon. Best of all we moved recently and you wouldn't believe how the little sucker swallowed box load after box load. It looks different for sure but after the wheels and the tinted windows it make other the other cars I park next to look so old school. The biggest smile of all comes when I think that I paid only US$16K for it and got 0% financing for 60 mos. Don't ask the car mags what they think about it though they hate it because...IT HAS A DIGITAL SPEEDOMETER!!! Oh yeah, so does the RX8...Right??
12-11-2002, 02:09 PM
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Over on the Miata.net, you'll see the same kind of posts from Dodge Omni, er, Neon owners. They seem to make their arguments about as long as their Chrapler products last, which isn't long. I hope for the best for you windy, but those Suzukis are ugly as Hill and, well, they're Suzukis. If Suzuki's styling (or lack thereof) is new school, I'm dropping out. Or am I the only one that thinks the Aztek is ugly too?
Last edited by rotorhead; 12-11-2002 at 02:13 PM.
12-11-2002, 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by rotorhead
If Suzuki's styling (or lack thereof) is new school, I'm dropping out. Or am I the only one that thinks the Aztek is ugly too?
If Suzuki's styling (or lack thereof) is new school, I'm dropping out. Or am I the only one that thinks the Aztek is ugly too?
I'm thinking AMC Pacer, AMC Gremlin, Pontiac Aztec, Ford Pinto, Nash metropolitan, that 3 wheeled europeon car with the entire front of the car that was the door (the one Urkel drove), and any other ugly car you can think of, especially that psuedo crossover tall boxey station wagon (Sentra?) Nissan made in the late 80's.
Last edited by Puppy1; 12-12-2002 at 10:24 AM.
12-11-2002, 03:26 PM
#161
Originally posted by Puppy1
I always thought it would be funny to have a movie made that was set in some kind of an alternative reality, populated with the uggliest cars ever made. The story would have nothing to do with the cars, they would just be there in the background.
I'm thinking AMC Pacer, AMC Gremlin, Pontiac Aztec, Ford Pinto, Nash metropolitan, that 3 wheeled europeon car with the entire front of the car that was the door (the one Urcle drove), and any other ugly car you can think of, especially that psuedo crossover tall boxey station wagon (Sentra?) Nissan made in the late 80's.
I always thought it would be funny to have a movie made that was set in some kind of an alternative reality, populated with the uggliest cars ever made. The story would have nothing to do with the cars, they would just be there in the background.
I'm thinking AMC Pacer, AMC Gremlin, Pontiac Aztec, Ford Pinto, Nash metropolitan, that 3 wheeled europeon car with the entire front of the car that was the door (the one Urcle drove), and any other ugly car you can think of, especially that psuedo crossover tall boxey station wagon (Sentra?) Nissan made in the late 80's.
12-11-2002, 03:27 PM
#162
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Originally posted by Hercules
That three wheeler was a Reliant Robin
That three wheeler was a Reliant Robin
That has to be the uglyest car I've ever seen!!!
12-11-2002, 03:32 PM
#163
Originally posted by Puppy1
Actually I had never seen that car before. Can we say Butt F****** ugly!
That has to be the uglyest car I've ever seen!!!
Actually I had never seen that car before. Can we say Butt F****** ugly!
That has to be the uglyest car I've ever seen!!!
it keeps going, and going, and going...
01-07-2003, 01:51 PM
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Mazerati Kubang and other wagons all over NAIS
Wow have you all noticed how many wagon concepts there are at the Detroit auto show? The Maserati Kubang concept wagon is one of the hottest items in the show. It seems to me that it looks like what an oversized RX-8 Sportwagon might look like....
01-07-2003, 05:16 PM
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Your point? Mazda jumping on bandwagons and following trends got them precisely nowhere. How well did their SUV do, or their minivan, even at the height of those trends? Not very. Why? Because people bought the nameplates they asociated with those concepts, not knock-offs. When did Mazda gain it's biggest hit? When it started it's -own- trend with the Miata and everyone else was jumping on the bandwagon to carve out a share of the market they created with that car. Mazda needs to be a leader, not a follower.
Beyond that, how many times do you have to be told that the RX-8 is NOT wagon material? It's rear area is just too small, the cargo space would be pathetic. Really, to get much useful cargo space at all you'd have to make the car taller overall and longer behind the rear wheels. And once you do that, it's not the same car at all...
As I've said, a fastback with hatch and open cargo area I can easily see. Sure, you won't gain much cargo space, but it wouldn't hurt anything either and the fastback concept has other appeals besides cargo capacity. To make it a wagon, however, would be pointless because you still wouldn't gain enough useful cargo space to be worthwhile and the gain in weight and the destruction of the weight distribution would simply not be worth it.
Put another way, they could make it a wagon and it STILL wouldn't have room for your dog and the stuff you want to carry, and it would drive like **** besides. So if they DID make one, you probably wouldn't want it once you realized how tiny the cargo area would be.
Are we done with this now?
*still waiting for my Renesis-equipped Mazdaspeed Protege*
Beyond that, how many times do you have to be told that the RX-8 is NOT wagon material? It's rear area is just too small, the cargo space would be pathetic. Really, to get much useful cargo space at all you'd have to make the car taller overall and longer behind the rear wheels. And once you do that, it's not the same car at all...
As I've said, a fastback with hatch and open cargo area I can easily see. Sure, you won't gain much cargo space, but it wouldn't hurt anything either and the fastback concept has other appeals besides cargo capacity. To make it a wagon, however, would be pointless because you still wouldn't gain enough useful cargo space to be worthwhile and the gain in weight and the destruction of the weight distribution would simply not be worth it.
Put another way, they could make it a wagon and it STILL wouldn't have room for your dog and the stuff you want to carry, and it would drive like **** besides. So if they DID make one, you probably wouldn't want it once you realized how tiny the cargo area would be.
Are we done with this now?
*still waiting for my Renesis-equipped Mazdaspeed Protege*
01-08-2003, 02:28 AM
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Well, I think we can officially call this thread DEAD. Take a look at Charlie Hughes' and Jay Amestoy's remarks on rotarynews.com. Specifically, read about their reaction when presented a photoshopped RX-8 wagon from this forum.:D
01-08-2003, 02:49 AM
#170
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well the thread isnt since you and i posteed to it but the issue is.... charlie hughes laughed out loud when the question wasraised and he was shown a photochop from this thread!! and gave an emphatic no!!
01-08-2003, 05:24 AM
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NO, No, No
As if the press hasn't rapped enough **** on the RX-8 for not being a TRUE sports car by having 4seats, what are they gonna say when you make it a wagon? How'd you feel about an RX-7 wagon? It's look ****. If you want a sports wagon, get a second turbo whacked in a wrx engine and shove it in a Liberty wagon, Or get a B4 engine. Geez. 
01-08-2003, 11:38 AM
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Bandwagon? Dead?
I'm sure those two probably saw the first Photoslop job version of the wagon posted on this thread, not the second. That image was a joke and was done by a guy that hated the concept. The Alfa Brera and the new Mazerati wagon prove that wagons CAN be both sporty and good looking if done right.
Yes my friends this is exactly the kind of narrowminded thinking that led Mazda to have to sell out to Ford. Now their troubles have REALLY begun. Do you think the lame *** Ford management would have ever approved the Miata had they owned the company back then? Not likely I think.
The MPV minivan was a poor seller because it was a poor vehicle, basically a van body dropped on Mazda's crummy truck chassis. As for the Navajo SUV well it was a Ford Ranger turned Explorer turned Mazda. Smacks of the future for Mazda. Besides the RX8 Sportwagon is the antithesis of an SUV.
As for bandwagons the "Sport Crossover" movement is certainly here and growing, yet I certainly wouldn't classify the RX8 sportwagon as a sport crossover. More like ummmm.....a "Sport Wagon". The basic idea behind this movement is that we don't have to sacrifice sport to get utility. The BMW wagons are no slower than their sedans, same for the Audi's and Mercedes wagons, so why would the RX8 wagon be any less sporty than the sedan? You certainly can't argue that it would have less interior volume, so where's the rub? What's your problem with this idea? Because YOU think it might be UGLY in your mind's cloudy vision? Wow, stop the world, I'm getting off.
....
Umm....yess daddy, I'll just go to my room and cry now OK? I forgot that you were the knower of all things, amost Deiety like in your knowledge of car design. I cower in the presence of your wit.
Sadly the RX8 is the last true Mazda you're likely to see any time soon, what with Ford's well publicized financial woes. From here on out Mazda's are going to be some warmed over Ford models (like the New 6) with little or no unique personality or virtue. Mazda's will be "market focused" so as not to intrude on Volvo or Jaguar or Mercury or Lincoln or Ford's market position. Furthermore they will all be homogenized "platforms" (likely a very marinal Ford based one at that) with slight "tweaks" for a particular brand. Smacks of the GM "Brand Management" failure from the 90's. Would you be willing to buy a BMW if you knew the thing was a warmed over Fiat or something? How do you feel about the new GM owned Saab 9-3? Talk about homogenized, and I never really liked Saab in the first place. This is the future I'm afraid....I looked in daddy's crystal ball and it told me so.
Sayonara "Zoom Zoom", Ford marketing must have come up with that one. I guess Mazda is Ford's new Pontiac. Perhaps they'll add more cladding to the MPV and the Protege in response. Oops...they already did, I snicker and laugh in your general direction....Perhaps they should add a big non functional air scoop on the hood?
Take a look at Charlie Hughes' and Jay Amestoy's remarks on rotarynews.com. Specifically, read about their reaction when presented a photoshopped RX-8 wagon from this forum.
The MPV minivan was a poor seller because it was a poor vehicle, basically a van body dropped on Mazda's crummy truck chassis. As for the Navajo SUV well it was a Ford Ranger turned Explorer turned Mazda. Smacks of the future for Mazda. Besides the RX8 Sportwagon is the antithesis of an SUV.
As for bandwagons the "Sport Crossover" movement is certainly here and growing, yet I certainly wouldn't classify the RX8 sportwagon as a sport crossover. More like ummmm.....a "Sport Wagon". The basic idea behind this movement is that we don't have to sacrifice sport to get utility. The BMW wagons are no slower than their sedans, same for the Audi's and Mercedes wagons, so why would the RX8 wagon be any less sporty than the sedan? You certainly can't argue that it would have less interior volume, so where's the rub? What's your problem with this idea? Because YOU think it might be UGLY in your mind's cloudy vision? Wow, stop the world, I'm getting off.
....
how many times do you have to be told that the RX-8 is NOT wagon material?
Sadly the RX8 is the last true Mazda you're likely to see any time soon, what with Ford's well publicized financial woes. From here on out Mazda's are going to be some warmed over Ford models (like the New 6) with little or no unique personality or virtue. Mazda's will be "market focused" so as not to intrude on Volvo or Jaguar or Mercury or Lincoln or Ford's market position. Furthermore they will all be homogenized "platforms" (likely a very marinal Ford based one at that) with slight "tweaks" for a particular brand. Smacks of the GM "Brand Management" failure from the 90's. Would you be willing to buy a BMW if you knew the thing was a warmed over Fiat or something? How do you feel about the new GM owned Saab 9-3? Talk about homogenized, and I never really liked Saab in the first place. This is the future I'm afraid....I looked in daddy's crystal ball and it told me so.
Sayonara "Zoom Zoom", Ford marketing must have come up with that one. I guess Mazda is Ford's new Pontiac. Perhaps they'll add more cladding to the MPV and the Protege in response. Oops...they already did, I snicker and laugh in your general direction....Perhaps they should add a big non functional air scoop on the hood?
01-08-2003, 06:15 PM
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Oh please... if that were the case, they'd not be making the RX-8 or it's Renesis powerplant at ALL, because the first thing Ford did when they came aboard was to put the kibosh on any new sports car concepts and to kill the rotary engine entirely. Nevertheless, here they are, because Mazda insisted it was the heart and soul of their company.
Do you know what was said by Mazda about the Tribute, which everyone knows is virtually identical to the Ford Escape? "Never again will Mazda and Ford build so similar a vehicle". No matter that it sells, or that SUV's in the Ford style are popular. It doesn't fit their vision, so they have pledged to never make the same mistake again.
Contrary to what you seem to believe, Ford does NOT own Mazda. Nor does it own a controlling interest. The percentage of the company that Ford owns is under 50%, and it takes 51% or more to have controllig interest in a company. Ford uses more Mazda engineering and technology in it's own small engines and small cars than Mazda uses anything of Ford's.
By the way, what model of Ford is the 6 based on, if I might ask? Since you brought it up. I'm curious to know, because it doesn't match anything I can think of that Ford makes.
One last thing. Do you plan at all to answer my points about the lack of cargo space in an RX-8 wagon, or how changing the vehicle's rear proportions to create such a dismally tiny cargo area would impact weight distribution and performance?
Really, how much room do you think you can get from boxing in the area from the beginning of the back window to the end of the trunk lid? A few square feet if you're lucky? Considering how low the roofline is, and how short the rear deck is, there just isn't much space there. Again, you would not have the room you're looking for. Wagon or not, there will never be a large amount of cargo space in this vehicle. Understand yet?
Someone out there who knows how to calculate this stuff, would you mind figuring up what the cargo space would be if you were to make the wagon Windadah wants? Maybe once he realizes how tiny it would be, he'll understand why the rest of us think it's impractical.
Do you know what was said by Mazda about the Tribute, which everyone knows is virtually identical to the Ford Escape? "Never again will Mazda and Ford build so similar a vehicle". No matter that it sells, or that SUV's in the Ford style are popular. It doesn't fit their vision, so they have pledged to never make the same mistake again.
Contrary to what you seem to believe, Ford does NOT own Mazda. Nor does it own a controlling interest. The percentage of the company that Ford owns is under 50%, and it takes 51% or more to have controllig interest in a company. Ford uses more Mazda engineering and technology in it's own small engines and small cars than Mazda uses anything of Ford's.
By the way, what model of Ford is the 6 based on, if I might ask? Since you brought it up. I'm curious to know, because it doesn't match anything I can think of that Ford makes.
One last thing. Do you plan at all to answer my points about the lack of cargo space in an RX-8 wagon, or how changing the vehicle's rear proportions to create such a dismally tiny cargo area would impact weight distribution and performance?
Really, how much room do you think you can get from boxing in the area from the beginning of the back window to the end of the trunk lid? A few square feet if you're lucky? Considering how low the roofline is, and how short the rear deck is, there just isn't much space there. Again, you would not have the room you're looking for. Wagon or not, there will never be a large amount of cargo space in this vehicle. Understand yet?
Someone out there who knows how to calculate this stuff, would you mind figuring up what the cargo space would be if you were to make the wagon Windadah wants? Maybe once he realizes how tiny it would be, he'll understand why the rest of us think it's impractical.
01-08-2003, 06:55 PM
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Mmmmmondeo...
Yes, I believe that the Mazda 6 chassis is the same as the Euro only Ford Mondeo. Same chassis underpins the Jag X type. Ford decided not to bring the Mondeo here as the new Contour because it would have cannibalized sales of the oh so outdated Taurus.
I don't know how much room there would or wouldn't be, I have yet to see the actual car. If the roofline is low then raise it. It's all conjecture at this point for most of us. As for weight distribution most front engine cars are front heavy rear light by nature. Adding a 50 lbs of glass and metal to the rear end for a wagon usually helps get more weight on the rear wheels thereby improving balance. Acceleration and braking would be largely unchanged and handling would be marginally better thanks to the rear weight bias of the wagon.
I don't know how much room there would or wouldn't be, I have yet to see the actual car. If the roofline is low then raise it. It's all conjecture at this point for most of us. As for weight distribution most front engine cars are front heavy rear light by nature. Adding a 50 lbs of glass and metal to the rear end for a wagon usually helps get more weight on the rear wheels thereby improving balance. Acceleration and braking would be largely unchanged and handling would be marginally better thanks to the rear weight bias of the wagon.
01-08-2003, 07:36 PM
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Raise the roofline??? Are you joking?! Do you have any idea how costly and impractical that would be? You're talking about changing the shape and proportions of the entire car! And all to turn it into something that you want instead of what it was designed to be.
If Mazda wants a serious sport wagon --and they might--, it makes far more sense to design a car with that end in mind than to try to alter a car designed for something else entirely. Can it share a platform with the RX-8? Sure, I see no reason why not, they've already said they intend to use that platform in as many other applications as possible to help defray production costs. Can it share styling cues with the RX-8? Again, no reason why not. But when you talk about utterly altering the RX-8 to shoehorn it into the wagon mold, you've gone too far. If they raise the roofline and extend the rear wheelbase and all the other things necessary to turn it into a practical sport wagon, then guess what? IT'S NOT AN RX-8 ANYMORE AT ALL. So, since it's not an RX-8, you might as well call it what it is -- an entirely different model. Thus, you can NOT have an RX-8 wagon. Because if you alter it to turn it into a wagon, it's not an RX-8. It's something else. Get it?
And another thing. Did you read anything at all about this car? It is NOT front heavy. It was deliberately designed with 50-50 weight distribution, which was one of the primary aims they were going for. Thus, adding weight to the rear would not help weight distributiona and balance, it would only hurt it.
None of this is "conjecture" at all. The car is -finished- it's design process and has begun production. Altering it in the way you describe is not a matter of altering some blueprints, you're talking about making major changes to a vehicle that does indeed already exist. You're talking about nothing less than a whole new body for the car, and that costs money. A lot of it.
Be smart, and ask Mazda for a serious sport wagon based on the RX-8 platform. But don't go asking them to spend the money to create a bastardized hybrid that will will do none of the jobs you're trying to make it do. Because none of us will be happy then, especially not you when you drive it and realize that it performs like crap and doesn't have room for more than a couple of sacks of groceries in the tiny joke of a cargo area and your dog is STILL riding in the front seat with you.
Are we done with this yet?
If Mazda wants a serious sport wagon --and they might--, it makes far more sense to design a car with that end in mind than to try to alter a car designed for something else entirely. Can it share a platform with the RX-8? Sure, I see no reason why not, they've already said they intend to use that platform in as many other applications as possible to help defray production costs. Can it share styling cues with the RX-8? Again, no reason why not. But when you talk about utterly altering the RX-8 to shoehorn it into the wagon mold, you've gone too far. If they raise the roofline and extend the rear wheelbase and all the other things necessary to turn it into a practical sport wagon, then guess what? IT'S NOT AN RX-8 ANYMORE AT ALL. So, since it's not an RX-8, you might as well call it what it is -- an entirely different model. Thus, you can NOT have an RX-8 wagon. Because if you alter it to turn it into a wagon, it's not an RX-8. It's something else. Get it?
And another thing. Did you read anything at all about this car? It is NOT front heavy. It was deliberately designed with 50-50 weight distribution, which was one of the primary aims they were going for. Thus, adding weight to the rear would not help weight distributiona and balance, it would only hurt it.
None of this is "conjecture" at all. The car is -finished- it's design process and has begun production. Altering it in the way you describe is not a matter of altering some blueprints, you're talking about making major changes to a vehicle that does indeed already exist. You're talking about nothing less than a whole new body for the car, and that costs money. A lot of it.
Be smart, and ask Mazda for a serious sport wagon based on the RX-8 platform. But don't go asking them to spend the money to create a bastardized hybrid that will will do none of the jobs you're trying to make it do. Because none of us will be happy then, especially not you when you drive it and realize that it performs like crap and doesn't have room for more than a couple of sacks of groceries in the tiny joke of a cargo area and your dog is STILL riding in the front seat with you.
Are we done with this yet?