pelucidor

73JPS - that is just plain cruel. It's so true that a picture is worth a thousand words - thank you for so eloquently stating your case.

Is this discussion closed now?

73JPS

1. Ok, here's a smaller "C" pillar: yep, still looks kinda ugly
2. No Kamm back on this wagon, although Mazda's three rotor exotic concept from the 70's had one.
3. Man, the RX8 may not be a replacement for the 7, but it is not a family sedan... jeez, even Consumer Reports isn't goofy enough to think that!

Hercules

Damn straight it looks ugly

windahdah

Gee this looks like the top thread in the entire "requests" forum. I guess if I were Mazda I'd make note of that fact. Thanks for adding more fuel to this fire guys 'cause the bigger it gets the more likely Mazda is to take notice.

This is one of those "Polarizing" concepts I guess. Just like the shape of the Doge Trucks when they came out...people seemed to either love it or hate it. Sales of Dodge's trucks doubled after the intro of the "big rig" look. In the same vein while there certainly are many of you seem to hate the RX8 Wagon idea there are many of us who love it. Either way thanks for posting your comments because positive or negative they still make this the hottest topic on the whole forum. :D

zoom44

73jps,
that was very good work. don't hate yourself for giving one for the cause and accepting the challenge. i think your pic speaks for itself but maybe you could put a roof rack up there with some luggage since there wont be any room in the back once widadah's dog is in there.
pelucidor, there was an accord wagon a few years ago, and i still see them around once in a while, but you are correct- if honda didn't have the sales volume with an accord wagon to keep building them i don't think widadah is ever going to see an rx8 wagon unless he takes it to someone and has it chopped just for him. i just hope i never see it. maybe nissan ought to consider a 350z wagon?

bwayout

How about a compromise ... sometime soon, in the future, I'd love to see a future RX-8 (still a 2+2) that's a fastback hatchback! And also has room in the back for a little more than two golf bags!

Or bring back something like the mx-6 ... that's alittle more aerodynamic than the new 6 hatchback will be.

And for the record, I really like the looks of the new Alfa-Romeo BRERA! But I wouldn't call it a wagon. Also, I can't recall if anywhere this was mentioned earlier (this is quite a long thread) but there's the BMW M Sport Hatchback but both are out of my price range :p and thier not fastbacks

windahdah

Chalk up one for another gomer that should be making his comments over on the "Bring back my RX7 Forum".

A 350Z wagon, now that's just silly. It doesn't even have a back seat. I've read that the RX8 has a quite sizeable back seat. How about an Infinity G35 Wagon? I'd consider buying one and It's off the same chassis as the 350Z. So there, Neeener neener...gomenheimer. There's a G35 Sedan, a G35 Coupe and the 350Z all off the same chassis, I'm sure a Wagon version of the G35 would sell well. Probably in larger VOLUMES than the 350Z.

If there's any doubt in your mind that utility sells cars just look at all your neighbors driving SUV's. Each and every one of them shoud be driving either a Minivan or a Wagon (better gas mileage, equal or greater cargo capacity, cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, more reliable, better handling, better acceleration, better braking, less prone to rollovers, less likely to act like a battering ram in a head on collision). You can go thank them for polluting the air, endangering our roads and increasing our dependence on foreign oil. To which they'll reply "But I need the extra room". What they really meant to say was "Well we should have gotten a minivan but the wifey wouldn't be caught dead in one of those". Vanity leads to ugly behavior.

I guess my desire to see an RX8 Wagon is driven out of my hate for SUV's. I find it objectionable that people feel the need to drive cars that are even heavier, guzzle even more gas and handle worse than the 70's Detroit "Land Yacht's" of yore. It's sad that the Government (through CAFE regulations) practically legislated the SUV into the phenomenon that it is today.

If I'm such a bad guy to all you RX7 nutz out there for this concept well perhaps you'd better consider the alternative. Just think of me every time you're trying to peer around another huge SUV to see if it's OK to pass his lumbering ***.

bwayout

Anyone kwow about if this will be a reality?

http://www.mazdausa.com/conceptcars/...p=&did=&state=

I hope they add a fastback model to the MX Sport Tourer line :D

zoom44

you seem to be replying to my post. first perhaps you should reread my posts in this thread and note that though i am not on your side of the arguement, i have not called you any names nor have i commented on your level of intelligence.
second, i am on this forum because i want an rx8.i do not want nor will i in the future want an rx7 for myself. but for those people who do i don't see why they can't be interested in both cars and put their comments on this forum.
third, the 350z as a wagon remark should have been read as irony and sarcasm, as i believe others on this forum did. it was supposed to be silly, as i think the rear of that is bloated looking to begin with and adding a wagon version would be laughably hideous. and for trying to play nice i get called names? if you really think that the photoshop version looks good i won't question your taste or intelligence, but i do question your sanity

wakeech

first bud, the conceptual work on those blunt ended cars (where a small turbulent area was purposefully created behind the car to sort of create a "streamlined" shape, the laminar flow goes around the turbulence) was the work which has led up to the spoiler, and more modern concepts of ground effect, diffuser technology, and on the fore-front these days, is venturi stuff (where swirls of turbulence pass beneath the car to create ground-effectesque downforce without the use of ground scraping plates) as you see on the F12002 (the serated barge boards). wings are not the only things that create drag. any time that you displace any given volume of a fluid, the amount of energy used to displace it and then move it back to it's origional position is the amount of energy taken away in drag. the more efficient you more the air around the body, and put it back where it used to be, the less drag you've got on that body.

those concepts and work you're speaking of is obviously out of date, and AGAIN, it IS a comprimize, where turbulent air is there in place of a more streamlined tail, only to reduce the mass of the vehicle. it still creates more drag than a streamlined shape, and the blunt end on the Daytona Shelby coupe was a helluva lot smaller in area than the back of a fat-*** wagon is.
again, if you want more proof that it DOES create more drag, simply try drafting a sports car (like a miata or something), and then drafting a lorry/semi-truck/whatever on the highway... see the difference??

well, windahdah, it may be so that you NEED to have a wagon, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea for Mazda to make one out of the RX-8.
yes, i agree that wagons are simply better than SUV's.
yes, i also agree that SUV's are 95% image.
yes, if i needed something of the like, i'd get a minivan (for more people) or a wagon (for more stuff)...
but no, just because i don't think a wagon is the way to go with the 8 doesn't necessarily mean that i'm against KEEPING IT THE WAY IT IS (going to be)!!! i am an RX-7 guy, and ya, i'd buy a 7 before an 8, but, that doesn't mean that i don't like the 8 for what it is; that implies that i don't think it should be a wagon, and i stand by that. it's a sports (sedan) car.

you want a wagon, get the 6. really, there's not gonna be a rotary wagon.

Speedbuggy

Now you're talking... I think a fastback hatch would look absolutely awesome. I would love it if they offered one with rear styling similar to that on the old MX-3, I think that would be gorgeous and would readily buy that over the stock model.

It's nice to see I'm not the only one whose tastes run in that direction.

Mazda, are you listening?

Hercules

Not to makign the 8 a wagon, no I hope not.

The 6 is the wagon, it will be coming out with AWD and turbo, and will be plenty fast. Get that if you don't want to suffer on the room with the RX-8. The RX-8 would be fugly as a hatch or any derivative thereof.

Speedbuggy

No, not as a wagon. I don't like the Protege5, and I won't be looking at the Mazda6 wagon either. I don't care for wagons, personally, and I wasn't talking about making the RX-8 into one.

What I -was- referring to is a fastback, which is an extended rear glass/hatch that slopes down at a gentle angle from the roofline, not an extended roofline like a wagon has.

Examples of that sort of fastback styling are the MX-3 (which I mentioned, and was definitely not a wagon by any stretch of the imagination), Porche's 944 and 928, as well as the non-convertible version of the second-generation RX-7. Various incarnations of the Toyota Celica and Supra from the 80's have worn this configuration as well. None of them wagons, all of them very sporty and attractive coupes, and all of them quite popular.

I also don't think a fasback should be a replacement for the current body style, just an alternative. Celicas, in particular, have offered both notchback w/trunk and fastback w/ hatch body styles in the same model, and done well with it. And unlike the wagon idea, I don't think it would dilute the image.

Food for thought.

wakeech

well, Mazda has made this car very sleek and long, but for the comprimize to make a compact car with enough room for four pretty big adults, they've sacrificed copious amounts of cargo space for seating... you can't have your cake and eat it too, unless you make another comprimize: making the car bigger adds wieght FAST, making it less sporty even faster... it's not suppost to be a car that's all show and no go, it IS suppost to be pretty fast... really, just get the 6 MPS: it's the sedan, right?? so, lots of power, more room, 4wd, and not as sporty. again, it's all a comprimize. the RX-8 is exactly what Mazda promised, and i really really dont' think they should change it.

bwayout

... so I'm curious what others might think and bring this up as a new request thread

wakeech

again, i'd like to reiterate that it wouldn't be an RX-8 anymore if you tried to make it a "fast back"... to keep the four-seater layout, you'd really have to stretch the chassis a good couple of inches to ensure that there's head room for the back passengers, and for Speedbuggy's bigger trunk... tack on another 200 lb of car, and you're stretching the wheelbase don't forget, again comprimising the sportiness of the car for greater functionality...

if you don't "need" to keep the back seats and want a fast back, well my friend, now you're talking about a 7 (see styjan's kick *** photoshopped images:scroll down the page a bit ), which again, is not an RX-8 (although it's more my kind of car )...

pelucidor

Ye gods - this topic is still going! I thought 73JPS killed it for sure with his 'artist's impression' of the wagon.

Let's have the RX-8 on sale and successful AS IT IS before we all try to get Mazda to redesign it into wagons, hatchbacks, SUVs, submersibles and snow-ploughs.

windahdah

Yes of course this forum is Still Going...Good ideas endure no matter what Peculiar er Peculidor er whatever.

It's a difference of perspective between us I guess. I (like most people as evidenced by the puny sales numbers of the last generation RX7) admire the old RX7 but would never consider owning one. It's 2 seat layout with a tiny "trunk" made it totally impractical even for me as a single guy. I need more utility but don't to sacrifice sports car performance.

Whereas I get the feeling you really just wish that the RX8 had never seen the light of day and that you could just have a new RX7. I on the other hand am only interested in the RX8 because it now comes with a useable back seat and decent space in the trunk. I only wish it were more so, hence the RX8 SportsWagon.

And no the 6 wagon just won't do for me. If Mazda TRULY wants to assume the role of the Japanese BMW/Porsche they need to stop marketing FWD platforms entirely.

Go ahead and proclaim something like "there's not going to be and RX8 Wagon, no matter what" or something keen like that. If Mazda's listening and watching the market they'll see that there's opportunity in this concept. Now back off to your "I want my RX7 back Forum", please.....

zoom44

if you look at pelucidors list of cars owned you will see that he never owned an rx7in the first place. and this topic is still going because of the oppostion to the idea not because people ar in favor of it.

Speedbuggy

Not to seem rude, but what makes you think that the frame would have to be stretched etc to make a fastback version of the RX-8?

Look at the pic at the top of the page, and then imagine the rear face just an inch or two taller and the back glass stretching all the way to meet it. The frame and wheelbase and such wouldn't need to be changed at all, and would remain identical to the current car. That is what a fastback RX-8 would look like from the outside.

Inside, the trunk enclosure would be opened up and the back seats made able to fold down, thus expanding cargo space and giving the option of even more space if you need to carry stuff instead of people. Headroom would remain identical as the roofline wouldn't change, only the back glass which begins behind the back seats anyhow.

Weight shouldn't change, as what extra glass there is is balanced by less metal, and the aerodynamic profile would likely improve. After all, they're not called "fastbacks" for nothing. Performance would remain virtually identical.

Thus, what you would end up with is a car with slightly higher cargo capacity, a different look, and virtually identical specs.

For examples of when and how this has been done successfully before, look at the early-80's Celica and Corolla from Toyota. Fastback and notchback versions of both cars were produced while changing very little about the car's performance features, dimensions, etc. And Toyota profited by expanding the markets for the models with the broadened appeal the choice in body styles gave.

And no, they never made a Celica wagon.

zoom44

think it would have louvers as an option in the fastback/hatch version?

Speedbuggy

Maybe so! *S* It would depend on how they'd look and how they affected the aerodynamics. They might just use tinted glass instead, after all the MX-3 never had louvres that I saw. Intersting question though. *S*

wakeech

well, if Speedy, if you've got a concept like that in your head, you can't ignore issues like cost, weight of the trunk lid, structural issues, oh jesus... i can't really come up with a real list of negatives which counter balance your positives, as it's a neat idea... i see now what you mean, and i don't mean stretching the wheel base a foot, i'm thinking 2 or 3 inches, which (obviously) is a lot... in any case, i'm sure that Mazda designers would have addressed this, and found that the plain-jane all metal bootlid to be a solution more in tune with the car they wanted to produce, rather than a huge windowed fast back... i don't know why, and might take pot shots at it, but your arguements are very very valid, and it'd be hard to argue them down without some really REAL science... hmmm... well, maybe Mazda would in fact make a version as such, but who knows?? i still think that the way it is kicks serious ***...
and thanks for adding your voice to the anti-wagon chorus (nothin' personal windahdah... just really isn't the right concept for the car)

73JPS

BINGO! Hit the nail on the head, Zoom. But it got me thinking: how about a poll on the subject? After nine pages of postings, perhaps a carefully worded poll could put some perspective on this topic, or at least give it some closure.

pelucidor

That's a big inference you've made about me wanting an RX-7. Actually in almost 20 years of driving I have never considered a Mazda until I heard about the RX-8, and for EXACTLY the reasons you want it - a sporty car with usable back seat (for the baby when necessary) and reasonable trunk. Until 8 years ago I had only owned European brands, but my first experience with a Prelude in Singapore changed my opinions about Japanese cars in a big way.

Now I understand how great a new RX-7 could be I really hope it makes a return so others may enjoy it, but I will never be able to get one due to (increasing) family reasons. To tell the truth if I could afford a third car it would be a 2-seater RWD convertible (preferably 360 Modena Spyder when I win the lottery, more likely a '93-'95 Miata for <$7000 when I don't).

I agree with you that it's a shame certain manufacturers whom I now admire (Mazda, Honda/Acura etc) don't make mainstream RWD vehicles - hopefully that will change eventually (see Infiniti and Lexus).

BTW what kind of dog do you have?