Ported with out a tune?
11-29-2019, 12:33 PM
#26
Well now I’m really confused.. lol, more flow = more power typically right? More air, more power.. right?
There was a significant increase after the porting.. it wasn’t a “maybe” placebo type thing.. it was very clear. Though, after tuning there were even more substantial increases in acceleration and torque. Very apparent. I have friends with tuned stock 8’s.. and though our configurations are different, I pull away pretty easily.
There was a significant increase after the porting.. it wasn’t a “maybe” placebo type thing.. it was very clear. Though, after tuning there were even more substantial increases in acceleration and torque. Very apparent. I have friends with tuned stock 8’s.. and though our configurations are different, I pull away pretty easily.
Some porters have reverted to opening the exhaust port where it’s not needed; earlier rather than later, which simply dumps hot burning fuel mixture before it fully transfers work energy on the rotor. So it moves more air and provides a perceived benefit of exhaust note change, but in reality is an expensive placebo that does little to nothing for actual engine output. All else being equal, you’ll be lucky to gain even 10 bhp from the most optimized porting job. That doesn’t equate to pulling away from another otherwise equal car weighing 3000+ lbs with driver.
Further, the resonant intake tuning that benefits this engine the most is easy to disturb and result in a loss if you’re not careful. Pretty much anything more than bare minimum port matching, minimal smoothing of abrupt flow path protrusions/transitions, and minimizing the restrictions is likely to cause more harm than good for NA purposes.
FI is an entirely different game though. All that intake tuning pretty much goes out the window. You might as well dump the UIM and put an open plenum with smooth port transitions on the LIM, move the TB to facing forward off the front of it, and keep the piping between the turbo outlet, IC, and TB as short as possible.
The big loop of piping most people have from the RH side of the engine, out to the front bumper opening and across, then back to the LH side of the engine, which then still has to enter into the engine from the same RH side where it started via the full factory intake manifold, is slowing response due to all the additional volume it creates. Which then takes more time to compress and come up to pressure.
A lot of this stuff isn’t rocket science, but rather; common sense. Many people go wrong due to an improper understanding of the facts. They take a piece of theory and imagine it to be the Mount Everest of benefit, but in reality is barely even an anthill.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 11-29-2019 at 01:04 PM.
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WankeyYankey (04-20-2020)
11-29-2019, 01:23 PM
#27
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Wow this thread is back from the dead, Never ended up porting my car just replaced it with stock lol. I had a dream but the seals to take the engine apart and put it back together properly was $$$$ that i just didn't have at the time.
04-12-2020, 12:02 AM
#28
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[QUOTE=thebubbadog;4904732]Wow this thread is back from the dead, Never ended up porting my car just replaced it with stock lol. I had a dream but the seals to take the engine apart and put it back together properly was $$$$ that i just didn't have at the time.[/QUOQUOT
I think the sight of you end goal is what is most important, if you want power then you tune, stock engine for reliability. You'll never have the fastest renisis and nobody here will, for me braps and flames was my goal and an untuned Bridgeport did they for me. Unreliable, 250hp, and a **** ton of gas.... But the braps are unreal.
I think the sight of you end goal is what is most important, if you want power then you tune, stock engine for reliability. You'll never have the fastest renisis and nobody here will, for me braps and flames was my goal and an untuned Bridgeport did they for me. Unreliable, 250hp, and a **** ton of gas.... But the braps are unreal.
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RotaryMachineRx (04-13-2020)
04-14-2020, 10:59 PM
#31
Tuned bridge port here... power increase wasn't even worth wasting dyno time on. I'm with everyone else, and highly skeptical of anyone making 250whp NA from a renesis without something really wild like a pport hybrid.
Also, if you're running a bridge untuned, your motor is as good as dead. Mine was running 22:1 AFR untuned before we started. You're playing on borrowed time my friend. Huge waste of money.
Also, if you're running a bridge untuned, your motor is as good as dead. Mine was running 22:1 AFR untuned before we started. You're playing on borrowed time my friend. Huge waste of money.
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nycgps (04-16-2020)
04-15-2020, 09:07 AM
#32
REW Club
Oh yeah? Well instead of rebuilding my engine I can get some rebuild-ina-bottle on eBay for $19.95 and then put the turbo booster in my
intake hose for an additional 20 hp.
intake hose for an additional 20 hp.
Last edited by 40th8Jake; 04-15-2020 at 09:09 AM.
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RotaryMachineRx (04-15-2020)
04-20-2020, 03:54 AM
#33
woah hold up where you get a tune for $200?? I'm in socal but I would gladly pay $200 for a tune I just haven't been able to find any tuners that know Rx8s local to me
04-20-2020, 04:17 AM
#34
you have it right, the issue is it has to flow both in and out in such a way as to improve power. On a Renesis, getting it in is easy. The issue is getting it out. Which there isn’t much to work with on the exhaust ports wrt material thickness where it’s needed. The tuning thing is different, because the tune isn’t optimized for maximum power. That has nothing to due with porting. The engine output benefits from it without porting. It doesn’t mean that’s why your friend's car pulls away from your own. There are many factors that can play into why that is.
Some porters have reverted to opening the exhaust port where it’s not needed; earlier rather than later, which simply dumps hot burning fuel mixture before it fully transfers work energy on the rotor. So it moves more air and provides a perceived benefit of exhaust note change, but in reality is an expensive placebo that does little to nothing for actual engine output. All else being equal, you’ll be lucky to gain even 10 bhp from the most optimized porting job. That doesn’t equate to pulling away from another otherwise equal car weighing 3000+ lbs with driver.
Further, the resonant intake tuning that benefits this engine the most is easy to disturb and result in a loss if you’re not careful. Pretty much anything more than bare minimum port matching, minimal smoothing of abrupt flow path protrusions/transitions, and minimizing the restrictions is likely to cause more harm than good for NA purposes.
FI is an entirely different game though. All that intake tuning pretty much goes out the window. You might as well dump the UIM and put an open plenum with smooth port transitions on the LIM, move the TB to facing forward off the front of it, and keep the piping between the turbo outlet, IC, and TB as short as possible.
The big loop of piping most people have from the RH side of the engine, out to the front bumper opening and across, then back to the LH side of the engine, which then still has to enter into the engine from the same RH side where it started via the full factory intake manifold, is slowing response due to all the additional volume it creates. Which then takes more time to compress and come up to pressure.
A lot of this stuff isn’t rocket science, but rather; common sense. Many people go wrong due to an improper understanding of the facts. They take a piece of theory and imagine it to be the Mount Everest of benefit, but in reality is barely even an anthill.
.
Some porters have reverted to opening the exhaust port where it’s not needed; earlier rather than later, which simply dumps hot burning fuel mixture before it fully transfers work energy on the rotor. So it moves more air and provides a perceived benefit of exhaust note change, but in reality is an expensive placebo that does little to nothing for actual engine output. All else being equal, you’ll be lucky to gain even 10 bhp from the most optimized porting job. That doesn’t equate to pulling away from another otherwise equal car weighing 3000+ lbs with driver.
Further, the resonant intake tuning that benefits this engine the most is easy to disturb and result in a loss if you’re not careful. Pretty much anything more than bare minimum port matching, minimal smoothing of abrupt flow path protrusions/transitions, and minimizing the restrictions is likely to cause more harm than good for NA purposes.
FI is an entirely different game though. All that intake tuning pretty much goes out the window. You might as well dump the UIM and put an open plenum with smooth port transitions on the LIM, move the TB to facing forward off the front of it, and keep the piping between the turbo outlet, IC, and TB as short as possible.
The big loop of piping most people have from the RH side of the engine, out to the front bumper opening and across, then back to the LH side of the engine, which then still has to enter into the engine from the same RH side where it started via the full factory intake manifold, is slowing response due to all the additional volume it creates. Which then takes more time to compress and come up to pressure.
A lot of this stuff isn’t rocket science, but rather; common sense. Many people go wrong due to an improper understanding of the facts. They take a piece of theory and imagine it to be the Mount Everest of benefit, but in reality is barely even an anthill.
.
03-04-2022, 02:50 AM
#35
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you have it right, the issue is it has to flow both in and out in such a way as to improve power. On a Renesis, getting it in is easy. The issue is getting it out. Which there isn’t much to work with on the exhaust ports wrt material thickness where it’s needed. The tuning thing is different, because the tune isn’t optimized for maximum power. That has nothing to due with porting. The engine output benefits from it without porting. It doesn’t mean that’s why your friend's car pulls away from your own. There are many factors that can play into why that is.
Some porters have reverted to opening the exhaust port where it’s not needed; earlier rather than later, which simply dumps hot burning fuel mixture before it fully transfers work energy on the rotor. So it moves more air and provides a perceived benefit of exhaust note change, but in reality is an expensive placebo that does little to nothing for actual engine output. All else being equal, you’ll be lucky to gain even 10 bhp from the most optimized porting job. That doesn’t equate to pulling away from another otherwise equal car weighing 3000+ lbs with driver.
Further, the resonant intake tuning that benefits this engine the most is easy to disturb and result in a loss if you’re not careful. Pretty much anything more than bare minimum port matching, minimal smoothing of abrupt flow path protrusions/transitions, and minimizing the restrictions is likely to cause more harm than good for NA purposes.
FI is an entirely different game though. All that intake tuning pretty much goes out the window. You might as well dump the UIM and put an open plenum with smooth port transitions on the LIM, move the TB to facing forward off the front of it, and keep the piping between the turbo outlet, IC, and TB as short as possible.
The big loop of piping most people have from the RH side of the engine, out to the front bumper opening and across, then back to the LH side of the engine, which then still has to enter into the engine from the same RH side where it started via the full factory intake manifold, is slowing response due to all the additional volume it creates. Which then takes more time to compress and come up to pressure.
A lot of this stuff isn’t rocket science, but rather; common sense. Many people go wrong due to an improper understanding of the facts. They take a piece of theory and imagine it to be the Mount Everest of benefit, but in reality is barely even an anthill.
.
Some porters have reverted to opening the exhaust port where it’s not needed; earlier rather than later, which simply dumps hot burning fuel mixture before it fully transfers work energy on the rotor. So it moves more air and provides a perceived benefit of exhaust note change, but in reality is an expensive placebo that does little to nothing for actual engine output. All else being equal, you’ll be lucky to gain even 10 bhp from the most optimized porting job. That doesn’t equate to pulling away from another otherwise equal car weighing 3000+ lbs with driver.
Further, the resonant intake tuning that benefits this engine the most is easy to disturb and result in a loss if you’re not careful. Pretty much anything more than bare minimum port matching, minimal smoothing of abrupt flow path protrusions/transitions, and minimizing the restrictions is likely to cause more harm than good for NA purposes.
FI is an entirely different game though. All that intake tuning pretty much goes out the window. You might as well dump the UIM and put an open plenum with smooth port transitions on the LIM, move the TB to facing forward off the front of it, and keep the piping between the turbo outlet, IC, and TB as short as possible.
The big loop of piping most people have from the RH side of the engine, out to the front bumper opening and across, then back to the LH side of the engine, which then still has to enter into the engine from the same RH side where it started via the full factory intake manifold, is slowing response due to all the additional volume it creates. Which then takes more time to compress and come up to pressure.
A lot of this stuff isn’t rocket science, but rather; common sense. Many people go wrong due to an improper understanding of the facts. They take a piece of theory and imagine it to be the Mount Everest of benefit, but in reality is barely even an anthill.
.
03-04-2022, 08:02 AM
#37
REW Club
I'm sorry but this just isn't true, look at pre renesis 13bs they can gain sometimes over 100hp from a port and tune, more air, more fuel, more power. renesis engines still gain power from ports consistently 5-15hp for street port and 15-25 for bridge. the reason they gain so little to where it's not really worth the reliability trade off is that the renesis is so well tuned from factory, with that high compression ratio, they really got almost every possible hp from the na setup they could, there just isn't much headroom. quit talking to people like they're idiots for wanting to port their rotaries and do YOUR research
Last edited by 40th8Jake; 03-05-2022 at 10:21 AM.
03-04-2022, 10:36 PM
#38
I'm sorry but this just isn't true, look at pre renesis 13bs they can gain sometimes over 100hp from a port and tune, more air, more fuel, more power. renesis engines still gain power from ports consistently 5-15hp for street port and 15-25 for bridge. the reason they gain so little to where it's not really worth the reliability trade off is that the renesis is so well tuned from factory, with that high compression ratio, they really got almost every possible hp from the na setup they could, there just isn't much headroom. quit talking to people like they're idiots for wanting to port their rotaries and do YOUR research
you have a lot to learn, grasshopper ...
05-21-2022, 06:14 AM
#39
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you have it right, the issue is it has to flow both in and out in such a way as to improve power. On a Renesis, getting it in is easy. The issue is getting it out. Which there isn’t much to work with on the exhaust ports wrt material thickness where it’s needed. The tuning thing is different, because the tune isn’t optimized for maximum power. That has nothing to due with porting. The engine output benefits from it without porting. It doesn’t mean that’s why your friend's car pulls away from your own. There are many factors that can play into why that is.
Some porters have reverted to opening the exhaust port where it’s not needed; earlier rather than later, which simply dumps hot burning fuel mixture before it fully transfers work energy on the rotor. So it moves more air and provides a perceived benefit of exhaust note change, but in reality is an expensive placebo that does little to nothing for actual engine output. All else being equal, you’ll be lucky to gain even 10 bhp from the most optimized porting job. That doesn’t equate to pulling away from another otherwise equal car weighing 3000+ lbs with driver.
Further, the resonant intake tuning that benefits this engine the most is easy to disturb and result in a loss if you’re not careful. Pretty much anything more than bare minimum port matching, minimal smoothing of abrupt flow path protrusions/transitions, and minimizing the restrictions is likely to cause more harm than good for NA purposes.
FI is an entirely different game though. All that intake tuning pretty much goes out the window. You might as well dump the UIM and put an open plenum with smooth port transitions on the LIM, move the TB to facing forward off the front of it, and keep the piping between the turbo outlet, IC, and TB as short as possible.
The big loop of piping most people have from the RH side of the engine, out to the front bumper opening and across, then back to the LH side of the engine, which then still has to enter into the engine from the same RH side where it started via the full factory intake manifold, is slowing response due to all the additional volume it creates. Which then takes more time to compress and come up to pressure.
A lot of this stuff isn’t rocket science, but rather; common sense. Many people go wrong due to an improper understanding of the facts. They take a piece of theory and imagine it to be the Mount Everest of benefit, but in reality is barely even an anthill.
.
Some porters have reverted to opening the exhaust port where it’s not needed; earlier rather than later, which simply dumps hot burning fuel mixture before it fully transfers work energy on the rotor. So it moves more air and provides a perceived benefit of exhaust note change, but in reality is an expensive placebo that does little to nothing for actual engine output. All else being equal, you’ll be lucky to gain even 10 bhp from the most optimized porting job. That doesn’t equate to pulling away from another otherwise equal car weighing 3000+ lbs with driver.
Further, the resonant intake tuning that benefits this engine the most is easy to disturb and result in a loss if you’re not careful. Pretty much anything more than bare minimum port matching, minimal smoothing of abrupt flow path protrusions/transitions, and minimizing the restrictions is likely to cause more harm than good for NA purposes.
FI is an entirely different game though. All that intake tuning pretty much goes out the window. You might as well dump the UIM and put an open plenum with smooth port transitions on the LIM, move the TB to facing forward off the front of it, and keep the piping between the turbo outlet, IC, and TB as short as possible.
The big loop of piping most people have from the RH side of the engine, out to the front bumper opening and across, then back to the LH side of the engine, which then still has to enter into the engine from the same RH side where it started via the full factory intake manifold, is slowing response due to all the additional volume it creates. Which then takes more time to compress and come up to pressure.
A lot of this stuff isn’t rocket science, but rather; common sense. Many people go wrong due to an improper understanding of the facts. They take a piece of theory and imagine it to be the Mount Everest of benefit, but in reality is barely even an anthill.
.
I've done my nosing around, but would rather get a little advice here, could I reach my target on stock ports? I don't mind dropping a little extra on the special goodies to make the car capable of reaching the power goal without porting if necessary. If it's worth anything, I am building with E85 in mind since the government here keeps upping the ethanol content of the fuel, so ripping the fuel system out and dropping in more ethanol-friendly parts as a bit of futureproofing seems more sensible than waiting until Mazda says "yeah this much ethanol probably won't play nice with the stock parts" and being stuck with the even pricier super unleaded stuff.
05-22-2022, 01:13 PM
#40
REW Club
Considering I have an RX-8 in need of a rebuild and I'm now just finding this side of the porting argument after seeing a sea of "BRIDGEPORT IT!" "INSTALL A TURBO!" "REW SWAP!", what would be the best course for improving power while maintaining some reliability? I was thinking streetport primaries/bridged secondaries with a tune to reach maybe 230-250hp since I have a 190/5-speed
My opinion, just MY opinion is to just make it reliable and enjoy the car as it is.
If you change your mind people seem to have good success with Chevy LFX swaps and I’m sure a k24 would be doable too. LFX swap isn’t that expensive from what I understand.
As much as I love rotaries, without forced induction or crazy peripheral/bridge port builds with crazy air intake/intake runner/ throttle body designs, it’s just too hard to get power out of stock engines.
I wish you the best and I am trying to save you the heartache that I had when I spent money on a Racing beat Header, bhr midpipe, racing beat axle back exhaust, and a Versa tune to probably only gain 10hp. I will say the midpipe makes sense if you don’t have to do emissions and the axle-back exhaust was mainly just for aesthetics and sound.
Last edited by 40th8Jake; 05-22-2022 at 03:01 PM.
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XDragon8 (05-22-2022)
05-23-2022, 03:49 AM
#41
never give up
Nemesis, I have a 4port 5mt. Done all the peripheral tuning through the years, haven't touched the motor.
You won't see 230-250 flywheel hp with the 4port.
Best dyno of mine on a pessimistic dyno, on a hot summer day, was 205 fwhp and 23,4 kg (169 ft ?) of torque. That was back in 2007 on stock wheels and stock final drive. Car still runs great till now.
You can have a very fun slow fast car which will be very exhilarating on twisty roads with reliability mods.
Ignition (I'd go with ign1a coil set, imo a must with fuel quality these days), lower fan temp operation, a nice free flowing exhaust, a cai maybe to declutter the engine bay,
play with suspension, quality coilovers maybe.
A set of good light 17inch wheels to liven it up a little, a 4.77 r&p to shorten it some more, you get the point.
Like Jake wrote, I also wouldn't bother with porting. Adds stress to the engine, impacts reliability, more troubles to deal with.
You won't see 230-250 flywheel hp with the 4port.
Best dyno of mine on a pessimistic dyno, on a hot summer day, was 205 fwhp and 23,4 kg (169 ft ?) of torque. That was back in 2007 on stock wheels and stock final drive. Car still runs great till now.
You can have a very fun slow fast car which will be very exhilarating on twisty roads with reliability mods.
Ignition (I'd go with ign1a coil set, imo a must with fuel quality these days), lower fan temp operation, a nice free flowing exhaust, a cai maybe to declutter the engine bay,
play with suspension, quality coilovers maybe.
A set of good light 17inch wheels to liven it up a little, a 4.77 r&p to shorten it some more, you get the point.
Like Jake wrote, I also wouldn't bother with porting. Adds stress to the engine, impacts reliability, more troubles to deal with.
Last edited by peloponisios; 05-23-2022 at 05:03 AM.
06-04-2022, 11:32 AM
#42
if you want to do much more than shorten engine life with no real performance gain by porting it, then you bought the wrong engine/car.
again, there’s a reason people brag about Renesis brap and other such nonsense, but are too embarrassed to post up anything more than blah-blah-blah.
people who can’t handle the truth, they deny and hide it to falsely and deceitfully glorify in their own lie instead.
.
again, there’s a reason people brag about Renesis brap and other such nonsense, but are too embarrassed to post up anything more than blah-blah-blah.
people who can’t handle the truth, they deny and hide it to falsely and deceitfully glorify in their own lie instead.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 06-04-2022 at 11:36 AM.
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