Ported with out a tune?
Can you do a port lets say a Bridge Port on an 2004 mazda rx-8 with out getting it tuned? or am i going to have to get it tuned for it to run?
I'm sure getting to tuned will add more power but do i NEED it tuned |
A Bridgeport is a waste of money but yes you would need a tune. Anytime you change the VE of the engine you should tune it.
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Yeah I mean the differences with a tune and without it on a street ported renny are negligible IMO so I would agree that you don't have to do a custom tune but to build one and then not get it tuned seemed pointless to me. I don't think the porting on my engine for example added any power versus had I just left the ports alone but I am boosted. But I left that up to Rob and I am happy with the results.
But, I have seen ported Renesis engines that did not idle all that well and so a slight bump in the idle speed had to be made to make it "normal". That is not really tuning but still some slight changes and some MAF scaling helps. A Bridgeport runs like dog shit on a stock tune. |
Idle and low end need to be tuned. I was running like 22:1 AFR before we started tuning.
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So i can get it ported but i would get big benefits for getting it tuned but its not a necessary. I'm also just going to go with a street port and forget the bridgeport. So then maybe it wouldn't be that big of a deal running it with out a tune. I like doing things my self so i'm probably going to buy this to do it https://www.mazdatrix.com/8racing.htm item number '49-22203' Street Port Template. I'm just trying to avoid dropping a lot of money on a tune for my car but i would still like to get it ported
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It makes no sense, there is only room for screwing up. If you are not going to spend the money to get a tune then forget about porting it.
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Yeah, I just don't think porting should be done by someone that is worried about the cost of a $200.00 tune. If he wants to experiment that is cool, but it doesn't seem like he can afford to do that.
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Originally Posted by reddozen
(Post 4809539)
Idle and low end need to be tuned. I was running like 22:1 AFR before we started tuning.
Mine ran fine without any adjustments to the tune . Idle is less stable , but apart from that you wouldn't know it was there . Same with the full length bridge on my first bridge engine. Another full Bridgeport I tuned for a guy ran just fine before I touched it as well . He just wanted me to make it pulse ...lol Wouldn't recommend a bridgeport on a turbo renesis to anyone BTW . It does nothing for power and makes spoolup worse. |
No clue Brettus, but you're probably right. That was years and 80k miles ago. Renesis is coming out this summer anyway.
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
(Post 4809673)
Yeah, I just don't think porting should be done by someone that is worried about the cost of a $200.00 tune. If he wants to experiment that is cool, but it doesn't seem like he can afford to do that.
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i cant find the thread of the member whos "builder" bridgeported his renny with a drill press and stacked the motor on a 5 gallon bucket on the garage floor. any of you guys remember it?
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Originally Posted by 200.mph
(Post 4809815)
i cant find the thread of the member whos "builder" bridgeported his renny with a drill press and stacked the motor on a 5 gallon bucket on the garage floor. any of you guys remember it?
yeah it's the same guy who was revving it to 10k (had MM remove the limit) and said it was fine and then of course it failed and then later he rebuilt it and installed a PT 6266 (or something) and then disappeared. He claimed his builder built 400WHP 4 port autos, lol. he was on the FB groups for a while too, he is so full of shit. he said it was fast because it would beat his Lexus GS, :lol: |
^^^ahhhhh, the good 'ol days.
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Just seeing this...
Answer, especially on an 04/05, is yes, get tuned. A ported engine will flow more air. There is a setting called Max Load that can get in the way. if you flow more air than Max Load expects, it figures the MAF is bad and will cap air flow data at that load point. This results in the engine leaning because more air is actually flowing. The worst spot is 6K to 6.5K RPM. |
Originally Posted by thebubbadog
(Post 4809516)
Can you do a port lets say a Bridge Port on an 2004 mazda rx-8 with out getting it tuned? or am i going to have to get it tuned for it to run?
I'm sure getting to tuned will add more power but do i NEED it tuned What you need is common sense and/or education because I'm sure you have ansolutely no clue other than a fantasy dream that can't be replicated in reality. Bridgeporting a Renesis is the same as taking a $6000 cash loan, digging a hole in the ground, putting the cash in the hole, pouring gasoline over the cash, and lighting it on fire. There's a reason people talk anout how great their ported Renesis engine feels, but you never see anything to specifically back it up other than "zomg feelz" and the marketing schlock by the entity trying to sell it to you. Most of the ported Renesis engines I've seen make less or same power than a properly built non-ported engine and their durability is often reduced. Best advice I can give is don't be thebubbadufus any more than you already have been by considering the idea ... just asking about it as you did here only proves how little you understand about the subject. |
Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
(Post 4809615)
Don't get me wrong (not that you did, 9K, but others might); I would suggest a tune whenever one has the opportunity as we see improvement in the hands of a capable tuner. I would not put pressure on anyone without such resources (especially given Cobb's most recent announcement), though, if they only have a mild porting job. Entering the "bridgeport" realm is a whole different level of seriousness........ :-)
What did they announce? |
Originally Posted by thebubbadog
(Post 4809627)
So i can get it ported but i would get big benefits for getting it tuned but its not a necessary. I'm also just going to go with a street port and forget the bridgeport. So then maybe it wouldn't be that big of a deal running it with out a tune. I like doing things my self so i'm probably going to buy this to do it https://www.mazdatrix.com/8racing.htm item number '49-22203' Street Port Template. I'm just trying to avoid dropping a lot of money on a tune for my car but i would still like to get it ported
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^^ the heart, deceptive above all, and exceedingly wicked; who can know it?
you’re deceived by perception, the reality is you got nothing meaningful output power wise. Again, no such modification has ever been proven in real world reality to match or exceed a properly tuned and running stock port engine by more than a few measly hp, but generally the same or less. |
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
(Post 4899176)
^^ the heart, deceptive above all, and exceedingly wicked; who can know it?
you’re deceived by perception, the reality is you got nothing meaningful output power wise. Again, no such modification has ever been proven in real world reality to match or exceed a properly tuned and running stock port engine by more than a few measly hp, but generally the same or less. There was a significant increase after the porting.. it wasn’t a “maybe” placebo type thing.. it was very clear. Though, after tuning there were even more substantial increases in acceleration and torque. Very apparent. I have friends with tuned stock 8’s.. and though our configurations are different, I pull away pretty easily. |
Originally Posted by Dan Marcelino
(Post 4899178)
Well now I’m really confused.. lol, more flow = more power typically right? More air, more power.. right?
There was a significant increase after the porting.. it wasn’t a “maybe” placebo type thing.. it was very clear. Though, after tuning there were even more substantial increases in acceleration and torque. Very apparent. I have friends with tuned stock 8’s.. and though our configurations are different, I pull away pretty easily. |
Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4899224)
This is the problem here : no - one EVER does a comparison between a good engine stock engine and their ported engine . It's always "porting made such a difference" after the rebuild of a tired worn out engine. Of course it would ...so would a stock rebuild! It's the same story we used to hear over and over after people replaced dodgy oem coils with new aftermarket ones.
See, that’s a GREAT point!! Could be what I’m feeling/seeing, but I still don’t understand why wouldn’t other intake and exhaust ports make more power? i would love to see a proper apples to apples comparison! 👍🏼👍🏼 |
Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4899224)
This is the problem here : no - one EVER does a comparison between a good stock engine and their ported engine . It's always "porting made such a difference" after the rebuild of a tired worn out engine. Of course it would ...so would a stock rebuild! It's the same story we used to hear over and over after people replaced dodgy oem coils with new aftermarket ones.
A healthy, stock Renesis feels slow (no torque), but they accelerate quite well despite how they feel. Adding fuel to the fire, the vendors offering special porting always claim great numbers but don't show evidence of them. I see little benefit to tuning a stock Renesis unless you really want to pump up the OMP, that's why I don't bother tuning them (yet), too few people actually building these cars, and when they do, they usually go with Haltech or Adaptronic, because they have a 13B-RE/REW going in with the turbo. |
Originally Posted by furansu
(Post 4899233)
I see little benefit to tuning a stock Renesis unless you really want to pump up the OMP, .
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Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4899237)
I've seen lots that were running richer than the wideband will measure .....those 8's really do benefit from a tune! Lots of others are just fine as is . Best thing to do is get a scan tool and check your AFRs . Anything in the 12-13 range (for the entire rev range) under wot is good.
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My experience between AEM WB and the stock narrow band is about .3 afr difference at most with the stock narrow band typically reading slightly richer. Of course that's highly modified and not stock tune though. AEM is mounted about 18" further down the system in my BHR midpipe with the stock sensor in my downpipe.
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