PeteInLongBeach

I can't quote any independent / empirical data on how the RX-8 handling compares to every other car in history. I only know that it has superb predictable handling for my purposes (which does not include racing). But what has always impressed me is how well it rides, given that level of handling. There are few other cars of this type that I am this comfortable driving over a variety of road conditions or for long stretches. I don't think they could have dialed-in the spring / damping rates any better.

124Spider

If what you want is fairly easy to drive hard (not really at the limit, but hard), the RX-8 is, in fact, an excellent choice, especially since its ride is quite comfortable for a its performance. As I've said a number of times, it's an excellent compromise car. Both the S2000 and the Elise are twitchy (the S2000 can really bite you with snap oversteer if you're not careful, and the Elise has a lot of lift-oversteer, as you might expect from a rear-engine car), but, properly driven, both quicker and faster through any course you care to design, compared to the RX-8.

Good rambling. It certainly is true that a stock RX-8 is not nearly as soft as, say, a minivan. But it won't knock your fillings out, like my S2000. And, when comparing cars of different eras, it's worth keeping in mind that the Ferrari 308, a super car of my younger days, is an uncompetitive member of B Stock (now C Stock) in SCCA autocross. I suspect an old RX-7 could be made to handle better, but I'm always amazed at how much slower they are on the race track than my Miata, around turns.

Don't know, since I've never driven a C4. But, certainly, prepped for stock-class autocross, a C4 will kick an RX-8 every time, properly driven.

No chance in Super Stock, unless those things can put out an amazing amount of usable power. I don't know anything about blown or three-rotor RX-8's. If there's significant turbo lag, I question whether it would be sufficient to overcome the lighter weight and lower center of gravity of the S2000, but I really don't know. With enough power, and little enough lag, an RX-8, otherwise stock-legal, certainly could beat an S2000.

Not trying to bring up an unpleasant subject, but it's worth keeping in mind that Mazda's claimed 238hp at the crank for my RX-8 translated to 185rwhp at a dyno (as did four or five other RX-8's on the same day/dyno) on the same day as my S2000, rated at 240hp at the crank by Honda, did 210rwhp. If a three rotor would put out, say, 270rwhp, I suspect that that would fairly easily beat an S2000 (assuming there aren't handling problems associated with the larger motor/more power). But I do think that it would take a lot more than 210 rwhp, and equally higher torque, for an RX-8, otherwise stock legal, to beat an S2000 (assuming both are well-driven).

Cf05

correct me if I'm wrong but I believe three rotor 8's are putting out well over 500 whp

MICHGoBlue

MICHGoBlue

124Spider speaks the truth, RX-8 does not have as much "grip" as you'd get from a S2000 or Corvette, all stock forms.

He is also right that when pushing the threshold, the RX-8 is more neutral and relaxed than the S2000 and Corvette.

If Jeremy Clarkson had said the same thing, who does not own a S2000 and/or a RX-8, we'd all buy it. But since it's a fellow forum member saying something that doesn't 100% compliment the RX-8, even though he owns both vehicles, he is "rubbish".

Now, back to the original topic.

05rex8

iTrader: (7)

SHUTUP!!!!!!!1
RX8 PWNS ALL!!!!!!!!!!!
JUST TAKE IT TO THE TWISTIES!!!! AND CHANGE PLUGS COILS AND WIRES EVERY 10K MILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#eaokfjsldf masp09ruq0[aw93ru;eolfm[03945uq[0wfjmd;erp0qw93riu[q03pwaejafp0sr;cjkax[0pr;fojw[sxp0ero;jk[wsoc;learjk[0q3w94irjpwoe;fjlmaw[0rpjasmpeo;lfj

Cf05

^+1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ultrataco

You mean stock? I guess it's power and weight.

My second generation RX-7 ('91) with upgraded springs, shocks and bushings has a pretty rough ride but handles pretty well considering it's age. (could use some strut tower bars or something though.) It's a non-turbo, so I'm sure it's just like a heavier Miata with no torque. I'm not sure how much it weighs exactly, probably 2500-2800 pounds. A stock N/A 89-91 RX-7 only makes 160bhp. The 86-88 N/A only made 146. (turbos were 180 and 200)

I've never driven a miata so I can't compare power or handling.

edit: oops. sorry. I'll shut up now.

911SC

Now we're getting somewhere!

124Spider

IMHO, this hijack has been a 100% improvement on the original thread, so there's no reason to apologize.

No, I actually mean a fully-prepared race car. We (Spec Miatas racing in ITA, our second class) often are on the track with first gen RX-7's. Yes, they are slower on the straights than our Miatas, but they are always slower in the turns that we are, so that we hate to catch them just before a series of turns. Perhaps there's something about the drivers, so that those who are hanging on racing a car that almost nobody races any longer just don't drive it to its capabilities, but I'm always surprised that a light car can't seem to be made to handle better.

911SC

As far a best handling car goes, Car & Driver has this Lightning Lap thing they do every year I think. It's in this months issue. It's 4.1 miles around Virginia International Raceway. Well the RX8 did it in 3:19.0 in 2006. Cars that beat it were: Charger SRT8, Infinity G37S, Mini JCP, Lotus Elise, WRX, Mazdaspeed 3, Solstice GXP, S2000 CR, Hyundai Genesis Coup 3.8, Audi S5, Lexus IS F, BMW 135i, Mitsu Evo MR, Mustang GT (!), Cobalt SS, 350Z Track, Z4 coupe, RS 4, Ford Shelby GT500, S4, BMW 335 Coupe, please, must I go on?
It's a fine handling car, but please. Yeah sure the more horsepower cars make up in the straights, but still.
By the way, speaking of Fiats I had a 1978 X1/9. Great little car.

ultrataco

Power and grip have a lot to do with that, especially on a track like that. I refuse to believe that the RX-8 handles worse than a Dodge Charger or Mazdaspeed3 or a few others.

I'm surprised how far down the Elise is.

Fencig

124Spider....When it really comes down to it it's the driver over all. I've driven a (all stock) 79 jeep cj-5, 79 vw rabbit, 82 vw vannagon, 86 vw sirrocco (sp?), 91 escort gt and a 06 rx8 as MY cars...not going to mention the ones I didn't own or really didn't like..

The sirrocco ate everything I ran against in the late 80s to mid 90s alive without modding. The vannagon tore up a few monte carlo's (+ others) of the same year(+/-5 years) in the 1/4 and over a distance with curves (note: this is a RWD mini-van). The rabbit lost veiw in the rear view of a ton over the curves. The escort handed a cammaro and a base level corvette their asses (but the vette was on cold pavement and underestimated me). And the Jeep, well it tops out at 58mph but can leave a 4 wheel burn out 20' long (still stock with a 258 in line 6).

To be honest the one I'm least secure in is the 8 and it's designed to do what you're talking about.

Numbers on a sheet mean nothing to me. Show me what you've done at the track and then I'll give you credit. That or come with me on a track. Not a challange but just saying, put it where it counts. Numbers show you potential but the driver can either hamper or exceed that potential. I'm not trying to impress, I know what I've done (and regret it in some cases).

Fact is, this thread wasn't started to be a call out session. It was a "I wonder why others misconcieve the rx8". Yes there are fanbois, and there are haters. I happen to like many cars, the 8 most right now. Remember that as you read, you're on an RX-8 board or...


P.S. I still have the Escort and Jeep if we want to start there lol.

911SC

Like I said power had something to do with the track times, but lets face it, even Chargers and Mustangs have very good handling these days. Lets not think of them like their 1960's and '70's versions. Those cars, while fast, would rub the street with their door handles around curves. I remember back in the late seventies or early eighties driving around the reservoir in my X1/9 with a Trans Am chasing me. I'd loose him around the curves but as soon as a long straight would come up, he would be on my tail. Just to loose him again at the next set of curves. So which car handled better?
As for the Elise being so far back, there where 20 more cars faster than the ones listed! And yes they are listed in order.

124Spider

Of course the driver is a pretty important part (it's a rare Porsche that's faster than I am in my Miata--with a stock 1.6 liter motor--on those rare occasions when I have the Miata out for a track day), but we're talking about cars equally well driven, the potential of the car.

I was merely reacting to a post in which a guy insisted, twice, that "nothing handles like [an RX-8]," when, if fact, lots of stock cars handle better than a stock RX-8.

gh8st

iTrader: (10)

to the OP... sometimes i say the same thing to people who ask me 'how i like my car' just because i don't want to bother explaining **** to them.

124spider: i'm gonna have to agree with you.. people who say 'nothing handles better than an rx8' have either A: never driven another car.. or B: in denial. The 8 handles like it's on rails with just a few mods, but who's to say other cars don't? I know for a fact the s2k handles like it's attached at the hips

rodjonathan

iTrader: (6)

^ i think saying the 8 is pretty much as good as it gets for a "4" door 4 seater in its price range is more accurate coz ive driven and owned my share of cars and some do handle better but none are as practical as the 8 just my .02

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I think the 8 is the best front mid engine, RWD 4-door performance sports car.

I also think it's the worst front mid engine RWD 4-door performance sports car.

It is the most expensive, and least expensive in it's class. It's the best handling, and the worst handling in it's class. I also takes top honors in it's class in fuel mileage and power, as well as last place.



Maybe if someone can think of another front mid engined RWD 4-door sports car we can start drawing comparisons.







Regarding "best handling":
Jeremy Clarkson said it best in the infamous review on Top Gear:
"This is the easiest car to drive fast that I've ever come across. It's just so forgiving. You can give it absolute hell, and it never fights back."
It handles incredibly well, but so do other cars. However other cars that handle just as well, or better, are generally more of a handful to drive, and harder for a novice to push to the limits safely.

troylikesbikes

I started test driving 8's in 2005. Out of a total of 8 test drives prior to purchase a new one in 10/09, 4 times the car wouldn't start ( including the one I ended up purchasing ).

I found this site way before I finally purchased, and I certainly knew that they sucked on fuel mileage, didn't make much power, cost a fair amount to insure, used oil, needed occasional engine replacements and in general might be the most unreliable pile of junk I have ever purchased.

I bought it anyway, and certainly don't think about it in terms of how rotten it might be. I have come to a zen like state of acceptance with its possible rottenness. I have evaluated the risk, balanced it against the reward, and bet $30G's on the outcome.

I'll let everyone know how its going in 5 years. I figure I need at least that long to evaluate how well my initial assumptions have worked out.