Brad

I just bought my RX-8 last Wednesday, and I absolutely love it! It’s a MT Silver GT. I won’t bother listing what I like about it, as I am sure it is the same for most of us.

But, there is one thing…it is my first MT. I have been driving an AT for about 7 years. I have driven a MT before, but never consistently (and usually on a base civic). That being said, I never had problems when I did. The 8 is a different story; after a full week I am still rather shaky. I am not talking about stalling; I can always avoid that, but my shifting just isn’t smooth. I feel like I am doing something wrong. Any advice would be appreciated. Anyone else find it hard at the beginning?

I know this sounds stupid, but it’s kinda frustrating, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Regards,
Brad

Johnnyma45

I'm with you, the 8 is my first stick as well, and after a month I can shift decently (but very slowly)...however sometimes when trying to go fast, still jerkily. I fear I am riding the clutch too much in the transition with the gas pedal. Tips??? From what I hear on this board everyone says this is a very smooth manual

bdt

For what it's worth, I haven't driven a manual in about 6 years - and I'm still a bit jerky with my new RX. However, every car is different and it just takes time to get a good feel for the gears and the clutch. What I do is keep the stereo (and AC if possible...) OFF, and listen to the sounds of the car as I transition. The stick should get smoother after prolonged use - most new cars are pretty stiff until they've been driven for a while.
Don't worry, it'll become second nature before you know it...

RotorWheeee

I've had my RX for about 5 weeks , when I first got I was very much the same ( stalled once or twice a week), the last standard I drove was 20 years ago and it wasn't in anything like a RX . That being said I found in that time and 4500km of driving things are much smoother now due too combined improved skill and the cars clutch being fully "worked in" ( No stalls in a couple of weeks) Still more to learn but any second thoughts about getting the MT are completely gone. One thing I've found is a couple of 'sweet spots" for shifting , for light cruising 4500 for something a little more energetic 6000 ...... still working on a sweet spot for something a a bit more aggressive:D

grogiefrog

Hang in there. I drove a quad cab 4x4 2500 diesel Ram recently. You start off in 2nd, and if making a left turn at a light, you have to shift to 3rd half way in the turn, without running over anything. It's not a nice smooth short shift like the RX-8. I started driving MT when I was 14 and have since for 20 years. Just give it plenty of gas and let the clutch out! You'll get use to where to shift and how much gas to give her. Plus you can "dry" shift sitting with the engine off to get in the habit.

mysql101

You have to be liberal with the clutch. Don't be afraid to ease it out slowly when shifting in low rpms.

Some might argue otherwise, but this is the hardest manual car I've ever driven. The engine rpms need to be just right or it will bog down, but if you hit the gas a little too much you end up reving the crap out of it and looking like a fool at the stop lights.

You will get used to it, but like I said, the key is use the clutch

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Ditto Jason - My last stick was 77 Scirroco.. (SP?)

I would suggest an empty stadium parking lot, or shopping mall, or school lot, and just practice, practice, practice. That way, you don't look funny in traffic.

Johnnyma45

To make shifts smooth, I've been accelerating slightly until I feel a bit of feedback in the clutch, kinda like a vibration, then i let the clutch out smoothly while giving it more gas. Shifting 101 - does this wear down the clutch life? I imagine it would...

Jeffjett

I think the problem is the engine is so smooth and vibration free, it's hard to hear the rpm's in 1st gear, especially if the radio is up. You just need to keep the rev's up till you engage the clutch in 1st. The 8 takes getting used to. This is the only car I have stalled at a light since I learned to drive a stick a long time ago. The good news is you get used to it.

Just keep practicing, and concentrate on it.

DavisRx8

I agree with Jason on this - I had a protege as my last car and an honda civic before that, and in comparison, my Rx8 is by far the most difficult to take off smoothly in. It has something to do with the gear ratios I think. It took me several weeks to get the hang of it, and now - after 15k miles driven - I still find myself with a jerky take off from time to time.

HeelnToe

I've been driving manuals for... dang... 20 years now. I had some trouble releasing the clutch smoothly at first in my 8.

What I do now is hard to explain, but it makes for very fun, seamless shifts...

Instead of basically lifting my entire leg and foot to release the clutch, I now kinda keep my heel on the floor and pivot my foot (toes) back... sorta like what you already do with the throttle... eventually sliding my foot back too.

I guess that stabilzes my foot and allows for a consistent, smooth release.

I don't think about it, I just do it, so it's difficult to remember what I do when sitting here typing.

But it works for me

Jeffjett

Guess that's why they call you HeelInToe

rex

iTrader: (2)

I was driving my Miata today and I couldn't believe how "forgiving" the clutch is. I mean I felt like I could be really sloppy with the clutch release and still get smooth shifts. The RX-8 clutch definitely takes some getting used to, but then so did the brakes and the way that it revs and the cornering and...

Think of mastering the clutch as another thing worth mastering and if you burn your clutch out well, instant kharma, you get the chance to install that lightened flywheel to make it even more fun

Brendan

It doesn’t sound stupid at all. It sounds completely normal.

I've been driving manual transmissions now for about 18 years and for my particular sensibility the RX-8 is the most pleasurable shifting experience I've ever had. It’s hard to imagine anything better. The first couple days I was having so much fun I did about 6 to 7 hours of near constant city driving and my clutch foot never became the slightest bit fatigued.

Each car is different and it took me about 3 or 4 days and about 600 miles of driving to get my muscle memory to completely forget the feel of my old car ('96 Dodge Stealth R/T Turbo) and fully adapt to the unique feel of my new one.

If it has been years since you've driven a manual, I would say give yourself 2 to 4 weeks of daily driving to master it in all possible driving conditions.

If you've never driven a manual before, I would say give yourself 4-8 weeks of daily driving before you've mastered it in all possible driving conditions. And this is only if you are really pushing yourself to get better each and every day.

I remember back when I first started and it was frustrating because you've got every "expert" telling you that it's “so easy” and therefore it’s hard not to pressure yourself into thinking you should have it all perfected within 30 minutes. Everything is easy to the person who has mastered a skill to the point at which thinking about isn’t even part of the equation anymore.

The simplest way I can think to describe the shifting process is as follows:

1) Drop the clutch to the floor
2) Shift into a gear
3) Release your clutch in one fluid motion to the very outside limit of the clutch’s contact point. You can feel this point of entry by detecting a slight change in pressure on the bottom of your foot. On the RX-8 it seems that this point is around 1 to 2 inches from the clutch being fully released.
4) Begin delivering clutch across it's final play (from initial contact point to full contact) while simultaneously starting to push ever so slightly forward on the accelerator. Don’t jump on the gas or allow the clutch to pop into full contact on its own. Your feet should be working in perfect harmony. Clutch foot moving all the way through the “contact zone”, while the throttle foot at the same time moves slightly forward to deliver fuel.
5) When the clutch is fully released return your clutch foot to the floor and just keep continuing onward with smooth throttle pressure at the desired rate until you get to your intended next shift. Release foot from accelerator pressure and go back to Step 1.

Step four is the hardest to master and you just need tons of practice to learn the feel of it all.

When you really get good you can make each shift in a second or less. But take it slow until your muscle memory sufficiently learns these maneuvers.

Beginners tend to make the mistake of thinking of the clutch release as one single event (“popping the clutch”) which they must perfectly time with throttle, rather than very rapidly finding the clutch’s beginning contact point and then in a somewhat more deliberate motion delivering the clutch the rest of its way while you push the throttle gently forward. This is why beginners often are giving throttle too early before there is even any clutch contact (a racing engine) or too late by applying throttle at the same moment the clutch is fully released or even after the clutch is released (lunging/stalling/jerkiness).

Of course watching a very experienced driver will make it look like one motion because it’s so fast, but they are starting a slight throttle up just as they allow the clutch to enter the intial contact point.

The bottom line is that there is no substitute for practice. Go out late at night or real early in the morning and practice with no traffic so you can make stupid mistakes and try things out with little to no danger or pressure of potential embarrassment.

At some point after hours and hours of practice you'll suddenly find yourself shifting freely. The whole process will have become second nature to you without you ever even realizing that it was happening. You will also now find it hard to even force yourself into making a poor shift. Your muscle memory will fight you all the way if you try and do things improperly.

When you get to this point you’ll know your gears so well (even if you don’t realize that you do) that you’ll now be able to downshift with confidence. With a quick glance of your RPM and speed you’ll know what gear is best to downshift to. After further practice just feeling the car’s pull/momentum or listening to the engine will inform your shifting decision.

One last thing: Get really good at moving your eyes back and forth between looking at the road and looking at your RPM gauge. I think a good way to practice this is to set an RPM goal of 3500 and then try to come as close as possible to shifting into each gear right at this RPM. Then move to 4000, 4500, 5000, etc. up to 6,000. Of course you have to have a wide open road in front of you to attempt this.

When you really get confident hit those 7 to 9,000 ranges for pure shifting nirvana! ;-)

8's enough

i find it smoother when you keep the rpm's up to 4000 between shifts .when your rpm's drop the car fells like you have applied the brakes ,so keep the rpm's up when shifting

Brad

Thanks for all the advice guys, I appreciate it. It is nice to know that I am not the only one who has struggled a bit at the beginning.

Thanks in particular to Brandon. Great post!

I can definitely see improvement since last week, so I guess it is just a question of time.

Abbid: the problem is not really consistent either way; sometimes the car rocks when the clutch is being let out because it doesn’t have enough throttle, and sometimes it jumps because there is too much. I think it is just a question of getting comfortable with the proper balance of both.

One other question: in response to what Brandon was detailing, it is better to rev the throttle first and then begin releasing the clutch through its friction point while maintaining the throttle at that level, or is it supposed to be more of a simultaneous thing (i.e. both at same time) ?

Thanks again.
Brad

arattle

Brendan, you are absolutely the man. I'm getting better, but as Brad, I am still new to MT. Occasional rough shifts are par for the course, but they are slowly becoming less frequent. It's totally worth it though, driving has never been so much fun.

-arattle

Brandon

Who me?? OH NO, now there's a Brendan and a Brandon on this board! haha

But I've found if I want to just putter away from a stop, doing them sort of simultaneously works pretty well, your gas foot gets used to the proper amount of gas to get it up to 2000 or so and the clutch coming out right away drops it down to 1500 or so and then you release the clutch completely and just putter up to speed. But that doesn't work if you want to get moving quickly because it bogs. Then you have to give gas first up to 3000 (or more) and then slip the clutch out while keeping enough gas on to keep the revs from dropping much below what you initially revved it up to.

Brad

haha. My bad, I meant Brendan. Anyway, thanks to both of you...

Brendan

It should be simultaneous.

Let’s say as an example that the beginning of the friction point until you’ve fully let the clutch out is 1 and a half inches. Start very slightly feeding the accelerator (just a tiny fraction of an inch) when you enter the beginning friction point at an inch and a half out and continue on with very, very slow and smooth forward pressure on the accelerator while you are letting the clutch out the rest of the way. Remember, this is all taking place in a fraction of a second when you have fully learned the process, but go through it slowly at first.

As you enter the friction zone you are beginning to marry the clutch disc with the spinning flywheel of your engine. At the first point of friction all the way through until the flywheel and clutch disc are completely together you want to be applying enough throttle (it doesn’t take much) so that as the friction increases you’re compensating by giving up slightly more throttle. This is how you allow the car to very smoothly maintain its momentum and eventually accelerate.

This is just something that takes a lot of repetition to perfect, as each car is slightly different in feel. That’s why when even an expert gets into a brand new car for the first time he or she will have some less-than-perfect shifts. That person is trying to adjust to how much to let out the clutch before they enter the friction point, how much pressure needs to be applied in releasing and depressing the clutch, and how much throttle to be matching with throughout the friction zone to maintain a very smooth flow of momentum.

To be smooth all the time your two feet have to be in perfect harmony. At the moment you put your foot on the clutch to depress it your throttle foot should immediately respond by releasing the accelerator. The clutch foot then moves the clutch to the beginning of the friction point and the throttle foot gently begins to apply a tiny amount of forward pressure while the clutch is being moved through the entire friction zone. Your clutch foot and accelerator foot should always be moving in opposite directions.

When practicing this it might be best to get up to 4 or 5,000 RPM before you shift again because you’ll be slower with the steps initially and this will give you more time to make the next shift before your RPM drop down to the point where the engine is bogged down.

It’s challenging to describe this process, as when you get really good each of these steps is taking place in a fraction of a second and with no realization of thought.

Other’s may describe a slightly different process that also works well. All I can say is that I’ve never had a single clutch or transmission problem in 18 years of driving manuals. And I haven’t really even had any noticeable wear to the point where I feel it might be getting time to replace the clutch. And believe me, I often drive aggressively, I just rarely do things like “pop the clutch” with a high RPM from a stopped position. Although if you don’t mind paying for tires and possibly for clutches, it’s a heck of a lot of fun to launch while leaving a little bit of rubber behind.