"New" motor ?? NOT
11-15-2005, 06:57 PM
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"New" motor ?? NOT
Previous thread outlined my problems with the enginge in my '04 RX8. Tha car has been at the dealer four times for the same problem (loss of power, engine knock, and no acceleration). Been there for 10 days now waiting for a "new" engine.
Comfirmed with the Service Manager that this would be a brand new 2005 motor. Today they tell me the motor is in. A rebuilt / remanufactured motor. They tell me Mazda won't send a "new" motor. He assures me this motor is better than new as it is hand built, blueprinted and balanced (same guy that told me I'd be getting a new one).
Spoke with the GM who told me pretty much the same thing. Called Mazda direct. Waste of my time. Was told that my "new" motor was a combination of new and used parts. Asked for a history of the "new" motor - what had been replaced. Was told is was not available. Hell, they won't even tell me what is wrong with my original engine and why they are replacing it.
Supposed to get a call tomorrow from ??? to try to answer my questions.
Nice car, lousy customer service. Apparently after purchasing a 30K car, they will try to fix it using used / rebuilt parts.
Does anyone know who I can contact to resolve this or at least get some staright answers??
Thanks.
Chris
Comfirmed with the Service Manager that this would be a brand new 2005 motor. Today they tell me the motor is in. A rebuilt / remanufactured motor. They tell me Mazda won't send a "new" motor. He assures me this motor is better than new as it is hand built, blueprinted and balanced (same guy that told me I'd be getting a new one).
Spoke with the GM who told me pretty much the same thing. Called Mazda direct. Waste of my time. Was told that my "new" motor was a combination of new and used parts. Asked for a history of the "new" motor - what had been replaced. Was told is was not available. Hell, they won't even tell me what is wrong with my original engine and why they are replacing it.
Supposed to get a call tomorrow from ??? to try to answer my questions.
Nice car, lousy customer service. Apparently after purchasing a 30K car, they will try to fix it using used / rebuilt parts.
Does anyone know who I can contact to resolve this or at least get some staright answers??
Thanks.
Chris
11-15-2005, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris4401
Comfirmed with the Service Manager that this would be a brand new 2005 motor. Today they tell me the motor is in. A rebuilt / remanufactured motor. They tell me Mazda won't send a "new" motor. He assures me this motor is better than new as it is hand built, blueprinted and balanced (same guy that told me I'd be getting a new one).
What type of warranty are they offering on the "new" motor?
11-15-2005, 08:26 PM
#5
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Chris
Sorry to hear about your engine problem.
Form my experience(s) in Australia, Mazda are within their rights to overhaul and renew damaged or defective parts.
The "used" parts would normally be the parts from your original engine that are not out of original wear specification.
It appears that MNA are offering a "changeover" engine rather than rebuilding yours.
The practice of replacing your engine with a completely brand new one is not normal, as most distributors don't stock large quantities of them from the "shelf". Rebuilding is the preferred option, and cost.
Your warranty will continues with whatever time/mileage you still have left.
I don't know your consumer laws regarding warranty, but, it appears similar to Australia.I would suggest any extended warranty on your motor would only apply if there was a common fault/problem with all RX-8 engines.
The manufacturer dealer does not have to explain what was exactly wrong with your engine, obviously it is yet to be rebuilt, and most likely the dealer will never be informed.
I cant answer as to why your engine had performance issues, you know how you cared for your car.
Sorry, I cant be of much help, I have faith that your 8 will return in top working order.
BTW. You can tell your dealer that ALL rotaries are hand assembled, as for blue printing, I doubt that one, reused parts would be cleaned and inspected to be within Mazda's wear tolerances. But actual blue printing....NO
Sorry to hear about your engine problem.
Form my experience(s) in Australia, Mazda are within their rights to overhaul and renew damaged or defective parts.
The "used" parts would normally be the parts from your original engine that are not out of original wear specification.
It appears that MNA are offering a "changeover" engine rather than rebuilding yours.
The practice of replacing your engine with a completely brand new one is not normal, as most distributors don't stock large quantities of them from the "shelf". Rebuilding is the preferred option, and cost.
Your warranty will continues with whatever time/mileage you still have left.
I don't know your consumer laws regarding warranty, but, it appears similar to Australia.I would suggest any extended warranty on your motor would only apply if there was a common fault/problem with all RX-8 engines.
The manufacturer dealer does not have to explain what was exactly wrong with your engine, obviously it is yet to be rebuilt, and most likely the dealer will never be informed.
I cant answer as to why your engine had performance issues, you know how you cared for your car.
Sorry, I cant be of much help, I have faith that your 8 will return in top working order.
BTW. You can tell your dealer that ALL rotaries are hand assembled, as for blue printing, I doubt that one, reused parts would be cleaned and inspected to be within Mazda's wear tolerances. But actual blue printing....NO
11-15-2005, 08:41 PM
#6
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Generally this is what is replaced in a Factory rebuild....
Rotor Housings (2)
Machining 'face' of intermediate (Cast) Housings.
Apex Seals and springs.
Corner Seals and springs.
Side Seals and springs.
Oil Control Rings, "O" Rings and Springs.
Rotor Bearings...(Possibly)
Timing Cover and Rear Main Seal.
Engine Gasket Kit (Includes ALL Rotor Housing Seals and O rings)
Oil Filter
New Engine Oil
New Engine/Radiator Coolant.
They might give you new Spark Plugs.
The installation Dealer should inspect your clutch plate and pressure plate, not normally covered under warranty, have a friendly word to them as they may renew (Cheaply) if there is excess wear evident. While the engine is out.
Rotor Housings (2)
Machining 'face' of intermediate (Cast) Housings.
Apex Seals and springs.
Corner Seals and springs.
Side Seals and springs.
Oil Control Rings, "O" Rings and Springs.
Rotor Bearings...(Possibly)
Timing Cover and Rear Main Seal.
Engine Gasket Kit (Includes ALL Rotor Housing Seals and O rings)
Oil Filter
New Engine Oil
New Engine/Radiator Coolant.
They might give you new Spark Plugs.
The installation Dealer should inspect your clutch plate and pressure plate, not normally covered under warranty, have a friendly word to them as they may renew (Cheaply) if there is excess wear evident. While the engine is out.
Last edited by ASH8; 11-15-2005 at 08:49 PM.
11-15-2005, 08:42 PM
#7
He's as bad as Can
I guess you will believe Zoom44 next time he answers a post of yours 
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...1&page=3&pp=15
There are many people on this board that know more about the RX-8 and how it's repaired than the dealership. In fact you sould always expect the worst from the dealership.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...1&page=3&pp=15
There are many people on this board that know more about the RX-8 and how it's repaired than the dealership. In fact you sould always expect the worst from the dealership.
11-16-2005, 12:07 PM
#12
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they use dto reman them at a motorcraft place in florida - i thought that was wher ethey still are doing them. but seriously the Reman is going to be just fine like i said previosuly
11-16-2005, 01:21 PM
#13
Florida huh.. 4 times.. out of service 10+ days on this try. Lemon law it now and get a whole new car.
3 times same defect or 15 days out of service on same defect.. you are covered.
http://www.800helpfla.com/lemonlaw.html
3 times same defect or 15 days out of service on same defect.. you are covered.
http://www.800helpfla.com/lemonlaw.html
Last edited by Aseras; 11-16-2005 at 01:24 PM.
11-16-2005, 03:40 PM
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Real close to doing just that. Was supposed to receive a call from a genuine Mazda tech but he is on vacation. What I really want is someone to give me a straight answer as to what is going on. They can't (won't?) even tell me why they are replacing the engine !!! All their tests didn't find anything wrong.
I have noted all the parts (earlier reply) that should be replaced but they have already told me that info is not available.
I am expecting the same problem to occur once I get the car back because even they can't (again, won't) tell me if anything is wrong.
If I go the Lemon Law route I will opt (if given the choice) for a refund. Great car but their customer service has really sucked. I expect more after spending that kind of cash on a car.
I have noted all the parts (earlier reply) that should be replaced but they have already told me that info is not available.
I am expecting the same problem to occur once I get the car back because even they can't (again, won't) tell me if anything is wrong.
If I go the Lemon Law route I will opt (if given the choice) for a refund. Great car but their customer service has really sucked. I expect more after spending that kind of cash on a car.
11-16-2005, 05:58 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Chris4401
Real close to doing just that. Was supposed to receive a call from a genuine Mazda tech but he is on vacation. What I really want is someone to give me a straight answer as to what is going on. They can't (won't?) even tell me why they are replacing the engine !!! All their tests didn't find anything wrong.
I have noted all the parts (earlier reply) that should be replaced but they have already told me that info is not available.
I am expecting the same problem to occur once I get the car back because even they can't (again, won't) tell me if anything is wrong.
If I go the Lemon Law route I will opt (if given the choice) for a refund. Great car but their customer service has really sucked. I expect more after spending that kind of cash on a car.
I have noted all the parts (earlier reply) that should be replaced but they have already told me that info is not available.
I am expecting the same problem to occur once I get the car back because even they can't (again, won't) tell me if anything is wrong.
If I go the Lemon Law route I will opt (if given the choice) for a refund. Great car but their customer service has really sucked. I expect more after spending that kind of cash on a car.
A compression test would show up blow by or leakage in rotor seals (apex/side/corner seals).
You may have coolant leakage, but they would have tested for that, I really doubt that senario.
As I said before, until Mazda Cal. pull apart your motor no one can confirm anything. It appears your 8 will have a changover rebuild from another 8.
I would wait until you get your car back, I agree with Zoom44 the rebuild engines WILL be as good as a brand new one.
I don't agree with you Chris that you will have the same problem with a new motor.......IF you do...the engine replacement was a waist of time....
When do you get your 8 back?
Last edited by ASH8; 11-16-2005 at 06:03 PM.
11-16-2005, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Aseras
Florida huh.. 4 times.. out of service 10+ days on this try. Lemon law it now and get a whole new car.
3 times same defect or 15 days out of service on same defect.. you are covered.
http://www.800helpfla.com/lemonlaw.html
3 times same defect or 15 days out of service on same defect.. you are covered.
http://www.800helpfla.com/lemonlaw.html
It's funny to see people throw that out there. I work at a dealership and people toss the "lemon law" out there all the time. In the 10 years I've been here there has never been a single case where someone won using the "lemon law" as the basis of their lawsuit.
Don't sweat your rebuilt engine. It is perfectly normal for any manufacturer to use a rebuild. It is very common practice. It is almost totally unheard of for someone to get an engine straight off of the assembly line.
Typically the engine will have it's own warranty that will actually be transparent to you as the customer. The re-man usually comes with it's own warranty that starts from the date of install, but in cases when the engine is replaced under manufacturer's warranty you are left with the remainder of the manufacturer's warranty. Check into this.
Face it. Things go wrong with cars. ALL CARS. Lamborghini's catch on fire in traffic. Maybach's are recalled for emissions. Ferrari's blow clutches. It happens to the best of the best. I'm sorry it happened to you.
I've had:
A new tranny - 3400 miles
2 new ring and pinion sets - 1700 mi and 4300 mi
power steering rack - 28000 mi
and a power window switch and motor - 530 mi
Just to name a few. These cars are built from cheap *** parts.
11-16-2005, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Aseras
go ahead and file the lemon law notification, that lights a fire under thir asses to fix it or else....
also try another dealer.. sometimes it worth the drive..
also try another dealer.. sometimes it worth the drive..
yeah that'll show 'em. **** the dealership and Mazda off with that one and see how far they WON'T GO to help you
11-16-2005, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SHOWOFF
yeah that'll show 'em. **** the dealership and Mazda off with that one and see how far they WON'T GO to help you
11-16-2005, 08:51 PM
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They say it will be done sometime this week. Hoping they will check the Cat while its apart (another story). Yes I agree it will be a waste of time if it happens again. Compression was "within specs" and they could find nothing else wrong.
11-17-2005, 07:07 AM
#21
Originally Posted by SHOWOFF
If it were only that easy...
It's funny to see people throw that out there. I work at a dealership and people toss the "lemon law" out there all the time. In the 10 years I've been here there has never been a single case where someone won using the "lemon law" as the basis of their lawsuit.
Don't sweat your rebuilt engine. It is perfectly normal for any manufacturer to use a rebuild. It is very common practice. It is almost totally unheard of for someone to get an engine straight off of the assembly line.
Typically the engine will have it's own warranty that will actually be transparent to you as the customer. The re-man usually comes with it's own warranty that starts from the date of install, but in cases when the engine is replaced under manufacturer's warranty you are left with the remainder of the manufacturer's warranty. Check into this.
Face it. Things go wrong with cars. ALL CARS. Lamborghini's catch on fire in traffic. Maybach's are recalled for emissions. Ferrari's blow clutches. It happens to the best of the best. I'm sorry it happened to you.
I've had:
A new tranny - 3400 miles
2 new ring and pinion sets - 1700 mi and 4300 mi
power steering rack - 28000 mi
and a power window switch and motor - 530 mi
Just to name a few. These cars are built from cheap *** parts.
It's funny to see people throw that out there. I work at a dealership and people toss the "lemon law" out there all the time. In the 10 years I've been here there has never been a single case where someone won using the "lemon law" as the basis of their lawsuit.
Don't sweat your rebuilt engine. It is perfectly normal for any manufacturer to use a rebuild. It is very common practice. It is almost totally unheard of for someone to get an engine straight off of the assembly line.
Typically the engine will have it's own warranty that will actually be transparent to you as the customer. The re-man usually comes with it's own warranty that starts from the date of install, but in cases when the engine is replaced under manufacturer's warranty you are left with the remainder of the manufacturer's warranty. Check into this.
Face it. Things go wrong with cars. ALL CARS. Lamborghini's catch on fire in traffic. Maybach's are recalled for emissions. Ferrari's blow clutches. It happens to the best of the best. I'm sorry it happened to you.
I've had:
A new tranny - 3400 miles
2 new ring and pinion sets - 1700 mi and 4300 mi
power steering rack - 28000 mi
and a power window switch and motor - 530 mi
Just to name a few. These cars are built from cheap *** parts.
I lemon lawed my old dodge because the tires were walking on the rims and the power stering pump went out. Dealer couldn't fix it, sent in the forms, got a letter from chrysler asking to take another look, classic lemon law response, they still didn't get it right. After the last check, the state takes over and the automaker generally gets the shaft if you got all your ducks in a row, ( all paperwork and supporting documentation etc..) All i got was a letter saying chrysler lost, wherre to drop off my truck and pickup my check. I also got reimbursed for additional expenses as well.
11-17-2005, 07:08 AM
#22
Originally Posted by SHOWOFF
yeah that'll show 'em. **** the dealership and Mazda off with that one and see how far they WON'T GO to help you
11-17-2005, 03:18 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by Chris4401
They say it will be done sometime this week. Hoping they will check the Cat while its apart (another story). Yes I agree it will be a waste of time if it happens again. Compression was "within specs" and they could find nothing else wrong.
What concerns me somewhat is in earlier posts you said on other occasions(2 i think)the dealer fixed your car, ran fine for a few months and then performance problems again.
What I am having trouble with is if a rotary has internal problems, which in most cases(all) a comp. test will show them up, these don't rectify themselves for a few months then come back, no internal combustion engine will....
Without going on, do you use the same gas station in your area for fuel, has it ever been flooded, the reason is that contaminated (at any time) fuel can give you heaps of problems, your fuel filter is not blocked?.
Sometimes it can be the most obvious or small thing that can create issues.
Did they check the MOP (Metering Oil Pump) that lubricates Apex Seals with engine oil.?
I guess your dealer would have tried all the normal checks, just an engine overhaul is the last resort.....GOOD LUCK.
11-17-2005, 04:26 PM
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Yes, its been in four times for the same problem. The second time it was doing it at the dealer but they said they didn't find anything.
Now they "think" there is carbon buildup on the seals which when hot causes the car to lose compression. Problem is, they have driven the car several hundred miles with no replication of the problem and the compression is "within spec".
Various gas stations (always premium fuel), never flooded. Computer sent to CA for a MOP 1 reflash. They refuse to check the Cat unless I pay for it. They are however going to check it during the engine swap as the exhaust will be off.
They keep telling me they can only do what Mazda tells them to do which frustrates the hell out of me. They have the car (not Mazda) and they seem to be overlooking the mechanical aspect of the car and relying on what the computer tells them.
As far as "pissing them off" by employing the Lemon Law, I'm running out of options. True I am getting a replacement engine (given up on the term "new") but I have no assurance this will fix the problem. The dealer says if it happens again, they'll put another engine in it. Makes me feel confident they know what they are doing. When it happens, the car is dangerous to drive. If it happens again, I will park the car on the spot, call them to pick it up and contact a lawyer.
Chris
Now they "think" there is carbon buildup on the seals which when hot causes the car to lose compression. Problem is, they have driven the car several hundred miles with no replication of the problem and the compression is "within spec".
Various gas stations (always premium fuel), never flooded. Computer sent to CA for a MOP 1 reflash. They refuse to check the Cat unless I pay for it. They are however going to check it during the engine swap as the exhaust will be off.
They keep telling me they can only do what Mazda tells them to do which frustrates the hell out of me. They have the car (not Mazda) and they seem to be overlooking the mechanical aspect of the car and relying on what the computer tells them.
As far as "pissing them off" by employing the Lemon Law, I'm running out of options. True I am getting a replacement engine (given up on the term "new") but I have no assurance this will fix the problem. The dealer says if it happens again, they'll put another engine in it. Makes me feel confident they know what they are doing. When it happens, the car is dangerous to drive. If it happens again, I will park the car on the spot, call them to pick it up and contact a lawyer.
Chris
11-17-2005, 05:56 PM
#25
might want to breeze throught this thread.
i have had the same poblem once. am waiting for it to happen again.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/rx8-unable-grab-revs-5-6th-52522/
beers
i have had the same poblem once. am waiting for it to happen again.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/rx8-unable-grab-revs-5-6th-52522/
beers