RX8 unable to grab revs in 5/6th!!!
02-12-2005, 02:47 PM
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RX8 unable to grab revs in 5/6th!!!
Hello All,
This is my first post but unfortunately my second time writing it as I logged out in the process and lost the text. Oops. So, I hope it doesn't appear twice.
I have really enjoyed all the info on the site up to this point but now find myself in need of assistance. I have an 04, black RX8 6spd. w/ 33800 miles on it.
It has seen mostly a commute/highway existence but I do enjoy revving it on occassion. I burns premium fuel and all recommended service intervals have
been followed. Car was purchased new in Sept of 03.
My current problem is the cars inability to increase revs at highway speeds (60 to 80mph) in 6th (primarily) and 5th gear. The symptoms are as such:
Constant throttle 6th@ 3.5-4.5K on tach. Sensation of "tightness" or "pressure" and motor becomes unresponsive to throttle inputs. In 6th a WOT produces
no increase in revs (noises or anything). It is as if I have not moved the throttle. If I then bump down to 5th and again select WOT the car bogs and slowly increases
revs but in a labored fashion. A progression from 71-80mph today did not feel as though it could be achieved and a Kia walked away from me. I include this detail
as a headwind was present but was not significant enough to deter other vehicles from acceleration. In addition, moments later, on a slight incline in 6th under WOT,
I actually LOST 1mph. This problem is intermittent but seems to be "run" specific. Meaning, if I turn the car off and get on the highway again later the car will not
exhibit the traits however once it is running and the problem is evident it persists until shutoff (lower gears remain responsive, sound unchanged,
idle not significantly rougher than normal).
Check engine has not been triggered as of yet.
Has anyone had this occur?!
Background. At 32081miles car was serviced after a similar condition generated error code P2070 (secondary shutter valve stuck open). This was originally dismissed verbally as "bad gas" since the error code was clearing itself after multiple start ups. Problem persisted, code checked and shutter switch/sensor replaced. Performance returned to normal under all conditions.
I have been plagued by many of the nuisance items referred to in posts on the site (ie. underwhelming fuel economy, broken interior parts, cat replacement @ 12k code P0420, etc) but I love the car in spite of its idiosyncracies. This is clearly not a nuisance problem! I am nearing the end of my warranty period and unfortunately, my patience as well.
ANY HELP, SUGGESTIONS, INPUT IS GREATLY SUGGESTED.
This is my first post but unfortunately my second time writing it as I logged out in the process and lost the text. Oops. So, I hope it doesn't appear twice.
I have really enjoyed all the info on the site up to this point but now find myself in need of assistance. I have an 04, black RX8 6spd. w/ 33800 miles on it.
It has seen mostly a commute/highway existence but I do enjoy revving it on occassion. I burns premium fuel and all recommended service intervals have
been followed. Car was purchased new in Sept of 03.
My current problem is the cars inability to increase revs at highway speeds (60 to 80mph) in 6th (primarily) and 5th gear. The symptoms are as such:
Constant throttle 6th@ 3.5-4.5K on tach. Sensation of "tightness" or "pressure" and motor becomes unresponsive to throttle inputs. In 6th a WOT produces
no increase in revs (noises or anything). It is as if I have not moved the throttle. If I then bump down to 5th and again select WOT the car bogs and slowly increases
revs but in a labored fashion. A progression from 71-80mph today did not feel as though it could be achieved and a Kia walked away from me. I include this detail
as a headwind was present but was not significant enough to deter other vehicles from acceleration. In addition, moments later, on a slight incline in 6th under WOT,
I actually LOST 1mph. This problem is intermittent but seems to be "run" specific. Meaning, if I turn the car off and get on the highway again later the car will not
exhibit the traits however once it is running and the problem is evident it persists until shutoff (lower gears remain responsive, sound unchanged,
idle not significantly rougher than normal).
Check engine has not been triggered as of yet.
Has anyone had this occur?!
Background. At 32081miles car was serviced after a similar condition generated error code P2070 (secondary shutter valve stuck open). This was originally dismissed verbally as "bad gas" since the error code was clearing itself after multiple start ups. Problem persisted, code checked and shutter switch/sensor replaced. Performance returned to normal under all conditions.
I have been plagued by many of the nuisance items referred to in posts on the site (ie. underwhelming fuel economy, broken interior parts, cat replacement @ 12k code P0420, etc) but I love the car in spite of its idiosyncracies. This is clearly not a nuisance problem! I am nearing the end of my warranty period and unfortunately, my patience as well.
ANY HELP, SUGGESTIONS, INPUT IS GREATLY SUGGESTED.
02-12-2005, 03:44 PM
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seems like its not getting the air it needs..first thought of mine would be an actual electronic throttle or throttle body problem. secodn thought is something wrong in the intake manifold -such as the secondary air shutter mentioned with your cel. third is no air going out- clogged cat could be making it hard for the car - no air out=no air in
02-14-2005, 07:36 AM
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Update
Thanks for the input guys.
I cannot duplicate the problem w/ any reliability and the check engine light still has not come on. I have driven it an additional 6 times since my first post and each ride has consisted of highway speeds w/out incident.
I too suspect a continued problem w/ the shutter valve as a clogged cat would seem to affect all gears/all speeds. This is so intermittent that it would seem to be related to an item w/ an active role in regulation. I had not considered the electronic throttle until now.
I'll keep updating if it recurs, under what conditions and if/when an error code is generated.
I cannot duplicate the problem w/ any reliability and the check engine light still has not come on. I have driven it an additional 6 times since my first post and each ride has consisted of highway speeds w/out incident.
I too suspect a continued problem w/ the shutter valve as a clogged cat would seem to affect all gears/all speeds. This is so intermittent that it would seem to be related to an item w/ an active role in regulation. I had not considered the electronic throttle until now.
I'll keep updating if it recurs, under what conditions and if/when an error code is generated.
02-14-2005, 09:56 AM
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clogged cat should be felt thruout the range but it could be felt more up top when it needs that extra air and it just cant get anymore in because no more will go out. think of a circular opening with half of it blocked. as long as open half is enough you dont feel the restriction.
03-11-2005, 11:02 AM
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Update...problem recurred
Problem recurred today 3/11/05. 69mph, 3500rpm. Throttle unresponsive. full Throttle application moved car up 1mph. tailwind. Mileage now 35312. Still no check enginge light. Car feels as though it has normal power in 1,2,3 on surface streets throughout the rev range.
I will report the problem to mazda but with such large intervals and no check engine I am not optimistic.
I will update w/ progress.
I will report the problem to mazda but with such large intervals and no check engine I am not optimistic.
I will update w/ progress.
03-11-2005, 12:18 PM
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When my clutch went out in my Accord, I started experiencing a similar problem. I lost the higher gears first, then finally could only drive in 1st.
Obviously this isn't your problem so I'm not sure why I'm even posting this, but it just reminded me of my clutch problem.
Obviously this isn't your problem so I'm not sure why I'm even posting this, but it just reminded me of my clutch problem.
03-31-2005, 05:47 PM
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Problem identified...engine removal scheduled for tues!
Update 3/31
Car put CEL on over weekend. Took it to mazda today as it was the first appointment they could get for me. Problem continued to recur w/ long spaces and no apparent cause other than extended 6th gear travel. Here is the current development:
CEL code is P2070 (stuck secondary shutter valve). Same as previous. Service manager stated the problem as "intake is intermittently leaking" and so must be replaced. I spoke w/ the mechanic when I dropped off the rental car today (they dont have the part so I am to drive the RX until it arrives). He was able to provide a better explanation and one that seems more likely.
-stuck shutter valve is the symptom.
-warped(?)manifold is cause. As manifold(aluminum) heats up it is pinching the shutter valve and not letting it open/close to suit +/- throttle inputs.
-this is causing the inability to gain revs (as zoom44 suspected it is an airflow problem)at highway speed
-also the cause of the rough idling when leaving the highway and inability to rev w/out breaking up (only occurred once after an hour highway ride)
-this is also the reason the problem seemed to be self-clearing: when I shut off the car and it would sit for an hour the intake would cool, retake its proper shape and release the shutter valve.
-Manifold is to be replaced
-requires engine removal. expected to take 2 days of work once part is received
A question I have for the group is: can extended periods of improperly burning (excess fuel in rotor chamber due to lack of o2) cause damage to the rotors. Would the excess fuel create an increased compression ratio and/or heat problem on the rotor walls. My understanding of the rotary's shortcomings has been the difficulty to create a lasting seal on the engine wall....could there be long term problems from a malfunction of this sort.
Any thoughts?
Car put CEL on over weekend. Took it to mazda today as it was the first appointment they could get for me. Problem continued to recur w/ long spaces and no apparent cause other than extended 6th gear travel. Here is the current development:
CEL code is P2070 (stuck secondary shutter valve). Same as previous. Service manager stated the problem as "intake is intermittently leaking" and so must be replaced. I spoke w/ the mechanic when I dropped off the rental car today (they dont have the part so I am to drive the RX until it arrives). He was able to provide a better explanation and one that seems more likely.
-stuck shutter valve is the symptom.
-warped(?)manifold is cause. As manifold(aluminum) heats up it is pinching the shutter valve and not letting it open/close to suit +/- throttle inputs.
-this is causing the inability to gain revs (as zoom44 suspected it is an airflow problem)at highway speed
-also the cause of the rough idling when leaving the highway and inability to rev w/out breaking up (only occurred once after an hour highway ride)
-this is also the reason the problem seemed to be self-clearing: when I shut off the car and it would sit for an hour the intake would cool, retake its proper shape and release the shutter valve.
-Manifold is to be replaced
-requires engine removal. expected to take 2 days of work once part is received
A question I have for the group is: can extended periods of improperly burning (excess fuel in rotor chamber due to lack of o2) cause damage to the rotors. Would the excess fuel create an increased compression ratio and/or heat problem on the rotor walls. My understanding of the rotary's shortcomings has been the difficulty to create a lasting seal on the engine wall....could there be long term problems from a malfunction of this sort.
Any thoughts?
04-02-2005, 03:47 PM
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no tranny symptoms...
It seems unlikely that your problem is similar to what I have experienced. It was not a case of popping out of gear but of no response to throtte inputs. I can't imagine you have a clutch problem as 6th gear rollon wouldn't seem to place the same level of strain on the clutch as a heavy throttle low gear acceleration might. Does it pop out of gear in any other circumstance?
I must say that the gearbox on my RX has been flawless w/ the exception of driver error on a few frantic upshifts.
Mazda called me today, said the part has arrived and I should bring the RX in on tuesday as scheduled. To mazda's credit, the service departments here in the hampton roads VA area are fantastic. They are responsive and really seem to want to help...it really helps keep my frustration level low in spite of how aggravated I am by my continuous problems.
Still love the car...even if she is a bit of a hot-house-flower.
I must say that the gearbox on my RX has been flawless w/ the exception of driver error on a few frantic upshifts.
Mazda called me today, said the part has arrived and I should bring the RX in on tuesday as scheduled. To mazda's credit, the service departments here in the hampton roads VA area are fantastic. They are responsive and really seem to want to help...it really helps keep my frustration level low in spite of how aggravated I am by my continuous problems.
Still love the car...even if she is a bit of a hot-house-flower.
04-06-2005, 09:36 PM
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response to varx8 and excess fuel
I wouldn't anticipate any problems with the rotors. Once the O2 is used up in a rich mixutre, the excess fuel would not burn and leave with the exhaust. As a matter of fact the excess fuel can actually help cool parts, (it's done on afterburners in fighter jets). But, if any problems would occur, it would be in the exhaust components, I would think.
11-17-2005, 08:18 PM
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I have been having a similar problem which the dealer has decided to address by replacing the engine. Never had any CEL or trouble codes but very similar issues with the way the car ran. '04 A/T with about 24K miles.
Chris
Chris
11-29-2005, 09:24 AM
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Emergency: Same problem
VARX8,
What was the outcome on your problem? I have the SAME PROBLEM EXACTLY with my 8. I have a high-flow cat and RACING BEAT muffler as well and the problem with no throttle response started occurring on my 8 right after I put on the High-cat.. Like you, if I drove 70-85 mph for any period of time on cruise control, when I needed to do an increase of speed I'd mash on the throttle and nothing happened ( i actually lost 1 mph).... When you would go to a about 6,000 RPM it would make a sound sorta like if you top out on a gear and it just makes a harsh rumble.... What should I do?
Mateo
What was the outcome on your problem? I have the SAME PROBLEM EXACTLY with my 8. I have a high-flow cat and RACING BEAT muffler as well and the problem with no throttle response started occurring on my 8 right after I put on the High-cat.. Like you, if I drove 70-85 mph for any period of time on cruise control, when I needed to do an increase of speed I'd mash on the throttle and nothing happened ( i actually lost 1 mph).... When you would go to a about 6,000 RPM it would make a sound sorta like if you top out on a gear and it just makes a harsh rumble.... What should I do?
Mateo
Originally Posted by VARX8
Update 3/31
Car put CEL on over weekend. Took it to mazda today as it was the first appointment they could get for me. Problem continued to recur w/ long spaces and no apparent cause other than extended 6th gear travel. Here is the current development:
CEL code is P2070 (stuck secondary shutter valve). Same as previous. Service manager stated the problem as "intake is intermittently leaking" and so must be replaced. I spoke w/ the mechanic when I dropped off the rental car today (they dont have the part so I am to drive the RX until it arrives). He was able to provide a better explanation and one that seems more likely.
-stuck shutter valve is the symptom.
-warped(?)manifold is cause. As manifold(aluminum) heats up it is pinching the shutter valve and not letting it open/close to suit +/- throttle inputs.
-this is causing the inability to gain revs (as zoom44 suspected it is an airflow problem)at highway speed
-also the cause of the rough idling when leaving the highway and inability to rev w/out breaking up (only occurred once after an hour highway ride)
-this is also the reason the problem seemed to be self-clearing: when I shut off the car and it would sit for an hour the intake would cool, retake its proper shape and release the shutter valve.
-Manifold is to be replaced
-requires engine removal. expected to take 2 days of work once part is received
A question I have for the group is: can extended periods of improperly burning (excess fuel in rotor chamber due to lack of o2) cause damage to the rotors. Would the excess fuel create an increased compression ratio and/or heat problem on the rotor walls. My understanding of the rotary's shortcomings has been the difficulty to create a lasting seal on the engine wall....could there be long term problems from a malfunction of this sort.
Any thoughts?
Car put CEL on over weekend. Took it to mazda today as it was the first appointment they could get for me. Problem continued to recur w/ long spaces and no apparent cause other than extended 6th gear travel. Here is the current development:
CEL code is P2070 (stuck secondary shutter valve). Same as previous. Service manager stated the problem as "intake is intermittently leaking" and so must be replaced. I spoke w/ the mechanic when I dropped off the rental car today (they dont have the part so I am to drive the RX until it arrives). He was able to provide a better explanation and one that seems more likely.
-stuck shutter valve is the symptom.
-warped(?)manifold is cause. As manifold(aluminum) heats up it is pinching the shutter valve and not letting it open/close to suit +/- throttle inputs.
-this is causing the inability to gain revs (as zoom44 suspected it is an airflow problem)at highway speed
-also the cause of the rough idling when leaving the highway and inability to rev w/out breaking up (only occurred once after an hour highway ride)
-this is also the reason the problem seemed to be self-clearing: when I shut off the car and it would sit for an hour the intake would cool, retake its proper shape and release the shutter valve.
-Manifold is to be replaced
-requires engine removal. expected to take 2 days of work once part is received
A question I have for the group is: can extended periods of improperly burning (excess fuel in rotor chamber due to lack of o2) cause damage to the rotors. Would the excess fuel create an increased compression ratio and/or heat problem on the rotor walls. My understanding of the rotary's shortcomings has been the difficulty to create a lasting seal on the engine wall....could there be long term problems from a malfunction of this sort.
Any thoughts?
10-31-2007, 01:13 PM
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I know this is an old thread, but my 2004 MT just threw a P2070 CEL. It has 25800 miles on it (bought it at 19K in June 2007). I have had the same problems with ignored throttle input at about 70 mph intermittently. Originally it happened on VERY hot days (97 degrees) so I thought it was the anti-knock sensor kicking in. Now it started happening on cold days (40) and the CEL finally came on. Still under warranty (for another month). I'll keep you posted.
11-01-2007, 03:17 PM
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Talked to the dealer today. He said the appropriate valve was a carbon'ed up. I asked him how I can prevent that from happening -- his response was, and I quote: "Just drive it like you stole it once a week". Sweeeet.
I told that to my office manager. She said "just tell that to the policeman. My father got out of a ticket once by telling the cop that he was cleaning the gunk out of his engine." Double sweeeet. It will help that I'm 45+ and look it....
I told that to my office manager. She said "just tell that to the policeman. My father got out of a ticket once by telling the cop that he was cleaning the gunk out of his engine." Double sweeeet. It will help that I'm 45+ and look it....
11-02-2007, 02:27 PM
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Got my car back. I haven't driven it too hard yet, but it appears to me that cleaning the SSV had the following effects:
- I had noticed breakup when accelerating hard in low gear before. Doesn't seem to happen now.
- Throttle was responsive all the way during highway driving
- Generally smoother operation. Idles smoother.
If anyone is reading this thread, I'm going to search for another related thread because I have some questions about preventing carbon buildup in the intake.
- I had noticed breakup when accelerating hard in low gear before. Doesn't seem to happen now.
- Throttle was responsive all the way during highway driving
- Generally smoother operation. Idles smoother.
If anyone is reading this thread, I'm going to search for another related thread because I have some questions about preventing carbon buildup in the intake.
11-02-2007, 03:04 PM
#20
Got my car back. I haven't driven it too hard yet, but it appears to me that cleaning the SSV had the following effects:
- I had noticed breakup when accelerating hard in low gear before. Doesn't seem to happen now.
- Throttle was responsive all the way during highway driving
- Generally smoother operation. Idles smoother.
If anyone is reading this thread, I'm going to search for another related thread because I have some questions about preventing carbon buildup in the intake.
- I had noticed breakup when accelerating hard in low gear before. Doesn't seem to happen now.
- Throttle was responsive all the way during highway driving
- Generally smoother operation. Idles smoother.
If anyone is reading this thread, I'm going to search for another related thread because I have some questions about preventing carbon buildup in the intake.
Kiss my fuxking ***, I went outside the dealership, drove the **** out of it for 2 tanks no CEL for 8K miles. and guess what I just had a copy of my warranty printed out from another dealer, Full Warranty still here. Haha !
Good thing your dealership has someone who knows what they're talking about. Unlike mine. Never going back again. NEVER GO TO GREAT NECK MAZDA !!!
11-14-2007, 04:44 PM
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04-16-2008, 08:02 PM
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this link have procedure of cleaning the Manifold
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...14-08-1924.pdf
Today the cel turn on P2070 after fill it with gas weird!. Well lucky me that I work in Toyota of Puerto Rico and Clear the code. Well Tomorrow gonna drive it like there is no TOMORROW
I love my LEMON CAR
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...14-08-1924.pdf
Today the cel turn on P2070 after fill it with gas weird!. Well lucky me that I work in Toyota of Puerto Rico and Clear the code. Well Tomorrow gonna drive it like there is no TOMORROW
I love my LEMON CAR
04-17-2008, 08:38 PM
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Today drive it like there is no tomorrow. I Think pass the 2 cycle or 2 trip no cel on for now. Call me crazy
but the car fell more alive and respond in performace. tomorrow gonna buy a redline for the tank and in the weekend gonna fix the damn Engine Coolant ligth drive me crazy turn on like 2 or 3 time in 1 day. First was leaking in thermostat a little of gray silicon fix it then in the hose of the coolant tank and now one the hose of the thermostat.
Thank god I am Tech isn't easy to paid 400.00 month
for this car. Damn you 
Ex owner DAMN YOU
Sorry for my bad english
but the car fell more alive and respond in performace. tomorrow gonna buy a redline for the tank and in the weekend gonna fix the damn Engine Coolant ligth drive me crazy turn on like 2 or 3 time in 1 day. First was leaking in thermostat a little of gray silicon fix it then in the hose of the coolant tank and now one the hose of the thermostat. Thank god I am Tech isn't easy to paid 400.00 month
for this car. Damn you Ex owner DAMN YOUSorry for my bad english
06-15-2008, 10:43 PM
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well like 2 week ago turn the cel on again
. The thing is that a Rev up to 6k and drive like hell. Then in the 3 trip turn off again this continued to happen like 3 time from now. I just buy in autozone the fuel injector of Shell V- power the intruction said wait to nearly empty the fuel tank add the injector cleaner full your tank and then nearly empty your tank again and keep doing in every 3,000 oil change. Rigth now I just add the injector cleaner and drive it like hell to nearly empty the tank but this is like the 2 time that turn on the cel and turn off in 3 trip this week. If this don't work my next move would be take the upper plastic air intake and clean the lower and upper air intake with spray Sea foam or carburator/brake cleaner to clean it.
What do you think?
Another question where is the SSV
I think is the green circle right or I am wrong please help this poor man
. The thing is that a Rev up to 6k and drive like hell. Then in the 3 trip turn off again this continued to happen like 3 time from now. I just buy in autozone the fuel injector of Shell V- power the intruction said wait to nearly empty the fuel tank add the injector cleaner full your tank and then nearly empty your tank again and keep doing in every 3,000 oil change. Rigth now I just add the injector cleaner and drive it like hell to nearly empty the tank but this is like the 2 time that turn on the cel and turn off in 3 trip this week. If this don't work my next move would be take the upper plastic air intake and clean the lower and upper air intake with spray Sea foam or carburator/brake cleaner to clean it.What do you think?
Another question where is the SSV
I think is the green circle right or I am wrong please help this poor man