Mazda admits power deficiency!
08-24-2003, 01:20 PM
#301
Love to rev!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mississauga - Ontario
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by msrecant
I already have the car I paid all that money for!
I already have the car I paid all that money for!
Since I have a vested personal interest (possible spring purchase) I'd like Mazda to find the "missing hp" not offer a $500 rebate, etc..
Because if they don't then at least in the Canadian market the base RX-8 would only have the RWD vs FWD handling dynamics and subjective styling edge over similar performance competition. Which should be the RSX-S, Celica GTS, VR6, Accord V6 MT, etc.. since all those cars are capable of sub 15 1/4 mile times and come much better equipped than the base RX-8 $38,000 Cnd price while priced cheaper. Don't even mention the fuel economy.
So then potential buyers will have to ask themselves if the handling dynamics, unique rotatry engine, styling and design are worth the $3-6K premium price and much lower fuel economy.
08-24-2003, 02:40 PM
#302
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: TX
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
THIS JUST HIT ME< STARTED A NEW thread...
Anyone think that mazda did this for the people that got suckerd, and to teach the dealers who over priced a lesson?
if the 0 to 60 numbers did not change , just the HP, is that not strange??
sell back your car to the bad guys who took advantage of you int he "new car frenzy" and buy it from one of the good dealers....???
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9477
thats what I am thinking.....
if I am wrong.. it will still have the same effect... think about it.
if the 0 to 60 numbers did not change , just the HP, is that not strange??
sell back your car to the bad guys who took advantage of you int he "new car frenzy" and buy it from one of the good dealers....???
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9477
thats what I am thinking.....
if I am wrong.. it will still have the same effect... think about it.
08-24-2003, 02:54 PM
#303
I give up. I am sure you be happy to hear that.
Get your $1500 you played right into Mazda's hands.
Your right I do have other options. So do you find out how the Cobra guys convinced Ford to fix theirs.
All new cars are snapped off of lots as fast as they get there. I had to wait 6 weeks to get my Mini CooperS and another 6 weeks the get the JC Works Kit installed.
PT Cruisers flew off of lots too when they first came out. Didn't you hear the stories about people following the trucks to the dealerships and offering rediculous money for them right off of the truck?
I predicted this HP thing was real and was attacked. I am now predicting 2-4 years of the 8 and its gone.
Enjoy your RX-8's. Happy motoring.
Get your $1500 you played right into Mazda's hands.
Your right I do have other options. So do you find out how the Cobra guys convinced Ford to fix theirs.
All new cars are snapped off of lots as fast as they get there. I had to wait 6 weeks to get my Mini CooperS and another 6 weeks the get the JC Works Kit installed.
PT Cruisers flew off of lots too when they first came out. Didn't you hear the stories about people following the trucks to the dealerships and offering rediculous money for them right off of the truck?
I predicted this HP thing was real and was attacked. I am now predicting 2-4 years of the 8 and its gone.
Enjoy your RX-8's. Happy motoring.
08-24-2003, 03:14 PM
#304
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: CA
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster
The performance numbers haven't changed. People are getting 0-60 times in the low 6's, like before. The only things that has changed is the stated HP number and the perception of less power in peoples minds (placebo affect).
The performance numbers haven't changed. People are getting 0-60 times in the low 6's, like before. The only things that has changed is the stated HP number and the perception of less power in peoples minds (placebo affect).
Originally posted by Keeper
So far all we have are mag numbers from preproduction cars (which may or may not have been running with 247hp), a guy with g-tech numbers, a couple of people with stop watches timing themselves, and one guy who knows a guy who ran a 14.7 at the strip.
So far all we have are mag numbers from preproduction cars (which may or may not have been running with 247hp), a guy with g-tech numbers, a couple of people with stop watches timing themselves, and one guy who knows a guy who ran a 14.7 at the strip.
08-24-2003, 03:49 PM
#305
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Qatar
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Keeper
And 238 - (238 * 17% [expected losses on a roller dyno]) should translate crank hp to whp, which would be 198. Which is still about 20hp off what people are getting to the wheels. Estiminating aside, when all is said and done what matters isn't the rated crank hp -- it's what gets put to the pavement, and the 8 is currently falling REALLY short in that department.
It remains to be seen if there is a certain mileage point where the engine will loosen up a bit more and produce more power down the road. If this doesn't happen before 10k miles I won't be holding my breath for it ever to happen.
Mazda claims the performance numbers haven't changed from what they advertised. Which of course begs the question, did they do their testing with the reduced power model or the Jspec model? If the numbers were real, then they intentially lied about the power output of the car from the get-go. If they didn't intentionally list the wrong power output because it was a 'recent' development, then their performance numbers will now be different and they are deceiving people now when they claim the numbers haven't changed. The only thing I can conclude is that there is some level of deception occuring, hence the lack of trust.
So far all we have are mag numbers from preproduction cars (which may or may not have been running with 247hp), a guy with g-tech numbers, a couple of people with stop watches timing themselves, and one guy who knows a guy who ran a 14.7 at the strip. Results from a passenger using a stopwatch aren't going to be accurate to 0.1s resolution; I don't trust g-tech numbers (a g-tech is good for comparative purposes, but is not a subsitute for a real run at a track); and I'd like to see more than just one person make a pass at the strip to determine if the numbers really are attainable (and post relevent information about the conditions, altitude, their "skill" level, etc).
And other can feel differently if they want, but it's incredibly ignorant to flame people for having a different opinion on the matter. And for what it's worth, if I had to buy a car today the 8 would not be on my list because of this situation -- I might change my opinion as the car gets older and more is known about it, but right now that's the way *I* feel about it. Taking an elitist attitude to someone with a different opinion than yourself isn't going to help anyone.
And 238 - (238 * 17% [expected losses on a roller dyno]) should translate crank hp to whp, which would be 198. Which is still about 20hp off what people are getting to the wheels. Estiminating aside, when all is said and done what matters isn't the rated crank hp -- it's what gets put to the pavement, and the 8 is currently falling REALLY short in that department.
It remains to be seen if there is a certain mileage point where the engine will loosen up a bit more and produce more power down the road. If this doesn't happen before 10k miles I won't be holding my breath for it ever to happen.
Mazda claims the performance numbers haven't changed from what they advertised. Which of course begs the question, did they do their testing with the reduced power model or the Jspec model? If the numbers were real, then they intentially lied about the power output of the car from the get-go. If they didn't intentionally list the wrong power output because it was a 'recent' development, then their performance numbers will now be different and they are deceiving people now when they claim the numbers haven't changed. The only thing I can conclude is that there is some level of deception occuring, hence the lack of trust.
So far all we have are mag numbers from preproduction cars (which may or may not have been running with 247hp), a guy with g-tech numbers, a couple of people with stop watches timing themselves, and one guy who knows a guy who ran a 14.7 at the strip. Results from a passenger using a stopwatch aren't going to be accurate to 0.1s resolution; I don't trust g-tech numbers (a g-tech is good for comparative purposes, but is not a subsitute for a real run at a track); and I'd like to see more than just one person make a pass at the strip to determine if the numbers really are attainable (and post relevent information about the conditions, altitude, their "skill" level, etc).
And other can feel differently if they want, but it's incredibly ignorant to flame people for having a different opinion on the matter. And for what it's worth, if I had to buy a car today the 8 would not be on my list because of this situation -- I might change my opinion as the car gets older and more is known about it, but right now that's the way *I* feel about it. Taking an elitist attitude to someone with a different opinion than yourself isn't going to help anyone.
Also, if you read my entire post, I didn't flame you one bit for feeling like you do. I made a comment that I and others feel much differently - hardly a flame.
Last edited by RX-8 Zoomster; 08-24-2003 at 04:09 PM.
08-24-2003, 04:27 PM
#306
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Qatar
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Racer X-8
You are a troll. I went to that sorry excuse of a website to read what our fellow rotary comunity members had to say. I will never subscribe to that forum. I will just make one thing perfectly clear (if a person who would be ranked in category 2 can make anything perfectly clear). Go back from whence you came, take your ilk with you and don't bother coming back.
And that goes for the rest of you trolls out there. If we lived in a perfect world, there would be a way to keep trolls out of forums.
You are a troll. I went to that sorry excuse of a website to read what our fellow rotary comunity members had to say. I will never subscribe to that forum. I will just make one thing perfectly clear (if a person who would be ranked in category 2 can make anything perfectly clear). Go back from whence you came, take your ilk with you and don't bother coming back.
And that goes for the rest of you trolls out there. If we lived in a perfect world, there would be a way to keep trolls out of forums.
I agree. I have no respect when someone (and I'll leave their name off this) makes comments like this on another board, (see quote below), degrading every member here. And then all of a sudden appears and their first post is nothing but a flame. That is a troll. It's those types of comments and the one below, that makes owners that are happy with this car, defensive.
I just read a ton of threads on the RX-8 Forum. Firstly it is obvious that it is related to the RX7Club there are 3 kinds of people in there. Those who truly know their **** but think their **** doesnt stink. Those who dont know **** but can bullshit well and create an aura of knowing ****. Those who dont know **** and admit it but are being mislead by the bullshitters.
I agree with Racer X-8, "Go back from whence you came, take your ilk with you and don't bother coming back". You trolls are providing no meaninful opinions or insightful points of view here.
Last edited by RX-8 Zoomster; 08-24-2003 at 04:33 PM.
08-24-2003, 04:34 PM
#307
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by graphicguy
Whoever did the 15.3 1/4 must be terrible at the track if that's all he could muster with the RX8.
Whoever did the 15.3 1/4 must be terrible at the track if that's all he could muster with the RX8.
08-24-2003, 04:44 PM
#308
I REALLY LOVE THIS CAR!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SE Coast
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I really want...
is a fix for the problem, not a cash credit and free service. I wish Mazda would take the estimated (by someone) $2M this will cost and spend it on a fix, particularly the apparent top end power deficit. I'll enjoy my car regardless of the action by Mazda, but my pride in ownership of the car will be somewhat diminished by the actions of Mazda.
08-24-2003, 04:49 PM
#309
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love the 8. I followed the car for 2 years knowing it was coming out, and bought it. I brought it home on 8/3. And disregarding all this loss of power and what not, I'm keeping my 8. I think the 8 as sufficient power for the norm, and if people are seriously not happy with the power, then I'd hope they would return it so they would stop bitching in here. The car is beautiful. I get looks everywhere I go, people asking me "what kind of car is that?" Those kind of questions and attention is what I love about it. Sure it may not have the power as rated, but it has the ability. I'm going to accept the offer from Mazda in a heartbeat. Free servicing is the best point overall, and the 500 is a good bonus as well.
08-24-2003, 05:19 PM
#311
Coming thru in waves...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Somewhere between Yesterday and Tomorrow.
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: What I really want...
Originally posted by TybeeRX-8
(What I want) is a fix for the problem, not a cash credit and free service. I wish Mazda would take the estimated (by someone) $2M this will cost and spend it on a fix, particularly the apparent top end power deficit. I'll enjoy my car regardless of the action by Mazda, but my pride in ownership of the car will be somewhat diminished by the actions of Mazda.
(What I want) is a fix for the problem, not a cash credit and free service. I wish Mazda would take the estimated (by someone) $2M this will cost and spend it on a fix, particularly the apparent top end power deficit. I'll enjoy my car regardless of the action by Mazda, but my pride in ownership of the car will be somewhat diminished by the actions of Mazda.
The poor mpg and sooty tailpipes has got to be an effect of the main problem, whatever that may be. I can't believe that a fix for epa reg's. would be to change the controller to make it run pig-rich, with hc's spewing out the exhaust. That's just so unbelievable.
What's the problem? I dunno, but I think there's still going to be an answer. When it comes out, we'll get our 250 hp and our mpg. I don't think the problem is doing the engine any good in terms of longevity, so Mazda can't simply be content with simply handing out $500 and 12 free oil changes, 1 set of spark plugs, 1 air filter, 2 brake fluid, rear differential & tranny oil changes. That pig-rich burn is gonna come back & bite them bad one day.
I'm being optomistic here, thinking that Mazda is really saying "Yeah, we have a problem with the engine. We're working feverishly on the correct fix and that may take some time. If you want out of this bad situation, you may get out of it now. We'll buy your car back with full reimbursement. If you want to say in (and we sincerely hope you do), here's $500 & free maintenance throughout the warrany period for your troubles. We are truly sorry for this mess & will correct it ASAP!
Of course, this is what I'm hoping the letter will read like. I guess until then, we're back to the old presumptive speculation game again...
ps, Thanks for backing me up, RX-8 Zoomster & others, on our latest troll attack. It goes on and we need to stick together. It's refreshing to come across familiar names in this thread!
08-24-2003, 05:28 PM
#312
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Evidently you guys are all over the board/room/place on this one. Instead of bickering over what to do, try a diplomatic approach.
First, get all the data you desire from Mazda on this issue. [Why the drop in PS/HP; delay at Port Authority; ECU re-mapping/Emissions adjustment; etc.] Remove your impulse to speculate the cause of the problem.
Second, break off into your respective groups -- Compensation and Maintenances; Buy Backs; Re-instatement of original HP/PS. Those for the Comp. and Maint. will seek just that, the Buy Backs will be justified, and the Re-instaters can lobby, arbitrate, or sue Mazda if they have a case.
At least you will have accomplished more than the speculating and venting you have done here.
Peace
marcus
First, get all the data you desire from Mazda on this issue. [Why the drop in PS/HP; delay at Port Authority; ECU re-mapping/Emissions adjustment; etc.] Remove your impulse to speculate the cause of the problem.
Second, break off into your respective groups -- Compensation and Maintenances; Buy Backs; Re-instatement of original HP/PS. Those for the Comp. and Maint. will seek just that, the Buy Backs will be justified, and the Re-instaters can lobby, arbitrate, or sue Mazda if they have a case.
At least you will have accomplished more than the speculating and venting you have done here.
Peace
marcus
08-24-2003, 05:31 PM
#313
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Qatar
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by CarEnthusiast
GTechs? Stopwatches? a guy who knows a guy? Oh my...
GTechs? Stopwatches? a guy who knows a guy? Oh my...
I'm not saying that the dyno results aren't "gospel", but with so few engines dynoed, and not knowing all the facts, it may be too early to make a conclusion on the final rwhp. You can't make a conclusion with only a few engines tested and assume that it is widespread to every engine. For we know, has anyone even isolated whether these first dyno results were on 1st shipment cars or every car.
GTechs, from what I read, seem to be fairly accurate. If some people are getting in similiar performance numbers close to pre-production engines, then this car does not seem to be suffering that much in the performance department, just stated HP number.
Last edited by RX-8 Zoomster; 08-24-2003 at 05:44 PM.
08-24-2003, 05:35 PM
#314
Coming thru in waves...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Somewhere between Yesterday and Tomorrow.
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by kidmarc
Evidently you guys are all over the board/room/place on this one. Instead of bickering over what to do, try a diplomatic approach.
First, get all the data you desire from Mazda on this issue. [Why the drop in PS/HP; delay at Port Authority; ECU re-mapping/Emissions adjustment; etc.] Remove your impulse to speculate the cause of the problem.
Second, break off into your respective groups -- Compensation and Maintenances; Buy Backs; Re-instatement of original HP/PS. Those for the Comp. and Maint. will seek just that, the Buy Backs will be justified, and the Re-instaters can lobby, arbitrate, or sue Mazda if they have a case.
At least you will have accomplished more than the speculating and venting you have done here.
Peace
marcus
Evidently you guys are all over the board/room/place on this one. Instead of bickering over what to do, try a diplomatic approach.
First, get all the data you desire from Mazda on this issue. [Why the drop in PS/HP; delay at Port Authority; ECU re-mapping/Emissions adjustment; etc.] Remove your impulse to speculate the cause of the problem.
Second, break off into your respective groups -- Compensation and Maintenances; Buy Backs; Re-instatement of original HP/PS. Those for the Comp. and Maint. will seek just that, the Buy Backs will be justified, and the Re-instaters can lobby, arbitrate, or sue Mazda if they have a case.
At least you will have accomplished more than the speculating and venting you have done here.
Peace
marcus
08-24-2003, 05:46 PM
#315
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: CA
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster
I'm not saying that the dyno results aren't "gospel", but with so few engines dynoed, and not knowing all the facts, it may be too early to make a conclusion on the final rwhp. You can't make a conclusion with only a few engines tested and assume that it is widespread to every engine.
I'm not saying that the dyno results aren't "gospel", but with so few engines dynoed, and not knowing all the facts, it may be too early to make a conclusion on the final rwhp. You can't make a conclusion with only a few engines tested and assume that it is widespread to every engine.
Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster
The performance numbers haven't changed. People are getting 0-60 times in the low 6's, like before. The only things that has changed is the stated HP number and the perception of less power in peoples minds (placebo affect).
The performance numbers haven't changed. People are getting 0-60 times in the low 6's, like before. The only things that has changed is the stated HP number and the perception of less power in peoples minds (placebo affect).
You are telling me that I shouldnt make a conclusion about engine performance when you go out and blatantly claim something based on a few gtech, stopwatch times?
Please, if you base more trust on gtechs and personal stopwatches over dyno's (dynojets for that matter) done at car shops then more power to you I guess. But keep in mind that most car tech afficionados will regard your thinking with a big :o
08-24-2003, 05:57 PM
#316
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Qatar
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Racer X-8
Thanks. Really. But, unless you've read the letter, you are speculating. The engine is not healthy & nobody knows that more than Mazda, and nobody stands to loose more than Mazda. Let's wait till we read the letter...
Thanks. Really. But, unless you've read the letter, you are speculating. The engine is not healthy & nobody knows that more than Mazda, and nobody stands to loose more than Mazda. Let's wait till we read the letter...
However, I must add that I won't make the generalization that every engine is not healthy. Obviously there seems to be some. But from our experience with our car, we do not think we are suffering a MPG problem, nor a lack of high RPM power. My wife says the car moves like a "bat out of hell", all through the RPM range. Others that have driven my car says the same thing. Of course neither of us nor them, including 99.9% of us here, have driven a pre-production car to compare it with our production models. All I can go on is the results of some owner's performance testing, and it does not appear to be severe lack of power (on the majority of the vehicles). When I get back, I'll definately "butt-dyno" the thing, but then again I have no pre-production model to "butt-dyno" it with. No one has that opportunity.
08-24-2003, 06:04 PM
#317
Coming thru in waves...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Somewhere between Yesterday and Tomorrow.
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't feel a thing wrong with mine either. Dunno. But, I do have considerable black deposits at the tailpipes. (?) I'm not used to all that power. Might be 250, might be 220. I don't know. I'm still midway in the breakin period too, keeping it under 4,500 rpms until 600 miles...trying to anyway...:D
I got 17.4 mpg for my 1st tank & I'm about 1/2 thru my 2nd...
I got 17.4 mpg for my 1st tank & I'm about 1/2 thru my 2nd...
08-24-2003, 06:09 PM
#318
For those of you who want their hp power back, I would suggest you read this thread on the Rx7 forum. This product isn't finalized yet but, think of the possibilities on the Rx8. IMHO it would possibly solve the hp and fuel mileage issue plus maybe add some much needed torque.
http://rx7club.com/forum/showthread....hreadid=204042
http://rx7club.com/forum/showthread....hreadid=204042
08-24-2003, 06:20 PM
#319
Forum Vendor
spin doctor
Originally posted by loco4rx8
No, I don't believe I am, thank you. You are not the type of person I was referring to as Joe and Jane Schmo. You have been reading this site for a while. 99% of people are not reading this site.
As for "all the talk on the site," are you just selectively reading? There have been many positive posts from owners who are very happy with their cars. Unfortunately, on any owners forum, a lot of the posts are going to be focussing on problems. That's the nature of the beast. You'll find that at ANY car forum.
No, I don't believe I am, thank you. You are not the type of person I was referring to as Joe and Jane Schmo. You have been reading this site for a while. 99% of people are not reading this site.
As for "all the talk on the site," are you just selectively reading? There have been many positive posts from owners who are very happy with their cars. Unfortunately, on any owners forum, a lot of the posts are going to be focussing on problems. That's the nature of the beast. You'll find that at ANY car forum.
I too really like my 8.
That does not alter the fact that once again Mazda has ripped us off.
I went to a Mazda meet this weekend.
There were a few different Mazda cars there.
To put it simply, the RX-8 performs similarly to a 2.2l turbo MX-6 GT Turbo. That is a car with a 2.2l engine making a rated power level of 145 and torque of 180
Top speed and acceleration are almost identical to my RX-8.
The car I paid for and received is quite nice in most respects, other than the fact that I did not get the engine I paid for.
Kind of like ordering a 16 oz. T-Bone steak dinner in a restaurant and getting a 12 oz. steak.
It tastes good, it is a nice meal, it just is short a bit from what I ordered.
If that happened in a restaurant they would not get off by offering me a free drink.
08-24-2003, 06:34 PM
#320
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Qatar
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by CarEnthusiast
Therein lies where you contradict yourself. I have read most of your post and you obviously state...
How can you be so sure that it hasnt? Just because people are using GTECHS, stopwatches, and hearing from a guy who heard it from another guy?
You are telling me that I shouldnt make a conclusion about engine performance when you go out and blatantly claim something based on a few gtech, stopwatch times?
Please, if you base more trust on gtechs and personal stopwatches over dyno's (dynojets for that matter) done at car shops then more power to you I guess. But keep in mind that most car tech afficionados will regard your thinking with a big :o
Therein lies where you contradict yourself. I have read most of your post and you obviously state...
How can you be so sure that it hasnt? Just because people are using GTECHS, stopwatches, and hearing from a guy who heard it from another guy?
You are telling me that I shouldnt make a conclusion about engine performance when you go out and blatantly claim something based on a few gtech, stopwatch times?
Please, if you base more trust on gtechs and personal stopwatches over dyno's (dynojets for that matter) done at car shops then more power to you I guess. But keep in mind that most car tech afficionados will regard your thinking with a big :o
I don't feel I contradicted myself. I don't make a performance conclusion, based strictly on one variable alone. I have never seen a pre-production dyno showing what the rwhp was before this car came out. I've only seem a HP & torque chart showing what those curves based on a 250HP engine.
So what if the current dyno is "gospel" and is close to the pre-production? What if Mazda achieve these pre-production 0-60 times with a lowly 238 HP, and a ghastly inefficient drop of HP to the rear wheels, something like 25-30%. Is it inefficient and a shame to have that much drop from flywheel to rear wheel? Definately yes. But if the performance times didn't change, who cares.
Now this scenario is problably not true, and we may still see there is still a problem with something inhibiting the power of this engine. And maybe only on some of them. But bottom line, I didn't buy the car based on a HP number only how it performed. If this car still performed like it does on 150hp, it would be fine with me. I hope you get my point.
Also another point, the dyno numbers give HP & torque output sure, but it doesn't give 0-60 or 1/4 mile performance numbers.
Some people have posted GTechs and stopwatch times very close to the Road and Track times. If R & T did a 0-60mpg 5.9 with a 8000 RPM clutch drop, then 6.0-6.1 with 7000-7500 is very close in my eyes. Do I trust them? Yes, so far. But I agree we still must have more tests.
Frankly it's still early to tell if there is a performance (not strictly HP number) drop until we have more dynos, more owner's performance tests, more magazine reviews and performance tests of the production cars and be able to compare them to the pre-production models.
Last edited by RX-8 Zoomster; 08-24-2003 at 06:49 PM.
08-24-2003, 06:46 PM
#321
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Algonquin, Il....west of Chicago
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Love the RX 8....still I think
I have yet to test drive the RX 8 but anything over 130hp is good enough for me. (I have a 2002 Mazda Protege 5)I will enjoy the handling, the fun, the amenities, the beauty of this car in and out. I don't know anything about engines, but I know how to have fun in a car and I am still looking forward to my AUTOMATIC sunlight silver baby due in October. I am thinking I can use this to negotiate more off the price! I am saddened about all these crummy remarks at fellow forum members....where is the love?? We just have different opinions...Yes, Mazda should make this right though! Let's just respect our differences, hope Mazda makes things right and improves the RX 8 for future owners!!
08-24-2003, 07:15 PM
#322
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Racer X-8
Thanks. Really. But, unless you've read the letter, you are speculating. The engine is not healthy & nobody knows that more than Mazda, and nobody stands to loose more than Mazda. Let's wait till we read the letter...
Thanks. Really. But, unless you've read the letter, you are speculating. The engine is not healthy & nobody knows that more than Mazda, and nobody stands to loose more than Mazda. Let's wait till we read the letter...
Peace
marcus
08-24-2003, 07:16 PM
#323
Drive it like U stole it!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Woodbridge, Ontario
Posts: 859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Faster Canadian Cars?
I just checked the MazCan web site and it is still showing the origial HP numbers. Maybe the Canadian cars are not affected by the lower HP numbers. :D
08-24-2003, 07:51 PM
#324
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Morristown Tennessee
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Drove by the Mazda dealer this afternoon. They have two RX-8 sitting out front that to my eyes look like buy-backs due to the black soot in tail pipe, tires broke in, window stickers ripped and put back up again. I hope whoever at mazda was responcible for this gets a swipt pink slip. And I know money is money, but all of you people considering a buyback, please don't even try and complain if the next RX-7 never happens.
On the plus side, these two RX-8s were the only ones on the lot besides the red one in the showroom. I can only hope that when the letters make it to the owners, they wisely choose the free service and $500 over a buyback. Not to scare anybody about reliability, but if you do the buy-back thing and then buy a used RX-8 to save some money, you do loose your lemon law rights in every state. You have to buy new to be covered under lemon law regulations. (not that you might need that, but it is something to consider an any vehicle- every single make and model (even Honda) has lemons)
I hope whoever at mazda was responcible for this gets a swipt pink slip. And I know money is money, but all of you people considering a buyback, please don't even try and complain if the next RX-7 never happens. On the plus side, these two RX-8s were the only ones on the lot besides the red one in the showroom. I can only hope that when the letters make it to the owners, they wisely
choose the free service and $500 over a buyback. Not to scare anybody about reliability, but if you do the buy-back thing and then buy a used RX-8 to save some money, you do loose your lemon law rights in every state. You have to buy new to be covered under lemon law regulations. (not that you might need that, but it is something to consider an any vehicle- every single make and model (even Honda) has lemons)
08-24-2003, 08:42 PM
#325
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: jims
Originally posted by graphicguy
IF you haven't bought an RX8 yet and this is a big issue for you, the other choice is to spend about $3K more and get a similarly performing 350Z, that's not nearly as refined as the RX8.
IF you haven't bought an RX8 yet and this is a big issue for you, the other choice is to spend about $3K more and get a similarly performing 350Z, that's not nearly as refined as the RX8.