Highest redlining car!
04-29-2005, 10:20 AM
#76
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Funny, because it's not often that I compare the WRX to the RX-8 unless someone else brings it up. So I'm not sure why you would make assumptions.
I'm sorry Stew but your butt dyno must be broken. The RX-8 is gutless below 4k RPMs, and to say that is pulls "insanely" or "VERY hard" all the way to redline makes me think that you really need to experience what a really fast car is. Again, not comparing it to a stock WRX since they're about the same when it comes to just mashing on the gas. There's nothing insane about the way the RX-8 pulls at any RPM.
I'm sorry Stew but your butt dyno must be broken. The RX-8 is gutless below 4k RPMs, and to say that is pulls "insanely" or "VERY hard" all the way to redline makes me think that you really need to experience what a really fast car is. Again, not comparing it to a stock WRX since they're about the same when it comes to just mashing on the gas. There's nothing insane about the way the RX-8 pulls at any RPM.
First of all, I've had more high-performance cars under my butt than I can count on all hands and feet. In my short 42 years of life, I have driven on the track:
911 and 930 Turbos
2 generations of BMW M3s
2 Generations of M5s
a race-prepped showroom-stock class 944 Turbo
a turbocharged 13A powered Formula Ford
a 650 HP SCCA TransAm-class Mustang
a 760 Horsepower NASCAR Winston Cup car
a 150CC Shifter Cart
three generations of RX-7s in various states of race prep
my '85 RX-7
my 2004 RX-8
my 1995 Acura Integra GSR that had been heavily modded
a 2004 WRX
a 2004 Evo
In addition to those fun track experiences, in the last six months, I've had the pleasure of driving in a spirited fashion:
the latest M5 (the V10 powered one! Whee ha!)
two C6 Corvettes
two Ferrari's
a Viper
a Panoz
So, I think I know fast cars. And the -8 begins pulling nicely at 3000, comes on "full boil" at 4000 and doens't suffer any flat spots in the power curve and pulls like a high-powered electric motor all the way to 9400 RPM, while sounding like God's own chain saw on steroids. That's pretty insane. And I love it.
04-29-2005, 10:23 AM
#77
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if you screw up a shift, the rpm can jump way past the limiter...it might not be getting fuel injected until it drops below that point, but it will still go past that point.
04-29-2005, 10:23 AM
#78
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You know the power band might not start until 3k or even 4k but when the rotary spins like a motorcycle engine then you get to whatever rpm you want in a hurry and I love that about the engine. Also, peak hp/tq means nothing, it is the area under the curves that really matter.
04-29-2005, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by StewC625
Spoken like a guy who has driven one that wasn't broken in yet, and doesn't own it.
First of all, I've had more high-performance cars under my butt than I can count on all hands and feet. In my short 42 years of life, I have driven on the track:
911 and 930 Turbos
2 generations of BMW M3s
2 Generations of M5s
a race-prepped showroom-stock class 944 Turbo
a turbocharged 13A powered Formula Ford
a 650 HP SCCA TransAm-class Mustang
a 760 Horsepower NASCAR Winston Cup car
a 150CC Shifter Cart
three generations of RX-7s in various states of race prep
my '85 RX-7
my 2004 RX-8
my 1995 Acura Integra GSR that had been heavily modded
a 2004 WRX
a 2004 Evo
In addition to those fun track experiences, in the last six months, I've had the pleasure of driving in a spirited fashion:
the latest M5 (the V10 powered one! Whee ha!)
two C6 Corvettes
two Ferrari's
a Viper
a Panoz
So, I think I know fast cars. And the -8 begins pulling nicely at 3000, comes on "full boil" at 4000 and doens't suffer any flat spots in the power curve and pulls like a high-powered electric motor all the way to 9400 RPM, while sounding like God's own chain saw on steroids. That's pretty insane. And I love it.
First of all, I've had more high-performance cars under my butt than I can count on all hands and feet. In my short 42 years of life, I have driven on the track:
911 and 930 Turbos
2 generations of BMW M3s
2 Generations of M5s
a race-prepped showroom-stock class 944 Turbo
a turbocharged 13A powered Formula Ford
a 650 HP SCCA TransAm-class Mustang
a 760 Horsepower NASCAR Winston Cup car
a 150CC Shifter Cart
three generations of RX-7s in various states of race prep
my '85 RX-7
my 2004 RX-8
my 1995 Acura Integra GSR that had been heavily modded
a 2004 WRX
a 2004 Evo
In addition to those fun track experiences, in the last six months, I've had the pleasure of driving in a spirited fashion:
the latest M5 (the V10 powered one! Whee ha!)
two C6 Corvettes
two Ferrari's
a Viper
a Panoz
So, I think I know fast cars. And the -8 begins pulling nicely at 3000, comes on "full boil" at 4000 and doens't suffer any flat spots in the power curve and pulls like a high-powered electric motor all the way to 9400 RPM, while sounding like God's own chain saw on steroids. That's pretty insane. And I love it.
04-29-2005, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cas2themoe
How did you do that? Thats pretty neat! Was the RX8's designed the same?
My S2000 peaks power at redline, so, when on the track, you want to redline it as you shift; shifting earlier slows you down. The problem, of course, is that right after redline comes the rev limiter, and you don't want to hit the rev limiter at 130 in turn 1.
Also, you don't want to be watching the tach rather than the track (this is true in autocross, also). So Modifry made a little thing which plugs into the tach wire; you set it where you want it to beep; my car redlines at 8000, so I have it beep once at 7300, 7500 and 7700, and then stay on at 7900. It's a really useful mod. When you're ripping through it in first, second and even third, you just shift when you hear anything. It goes through fourth slower, so you can wait until after the 7700 beep before starting your shift. In fifth, you can wait until the 7900 beep. And the beep is so loud it's easy to hear with helmet on, top down, going 125 mph.The other Modifry mods I have increase and decrease the volume on the radio automatically with speed (really useful in a car as noisy as the S2000); a speedometer calibrator, and a glove box organizer. All inexpensive and very useful.
I assume the RX-8 beeper works the same way.
04-29-2005, 10:27 AM
#81
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Originally Posted by Rx8bydocabe
"The tach pinged as far to the right as it would go. I had no idea what RPM's it was, but it was a heck of a lot higher than 10k. I thought sure I blew something up, but nope, it's been running fine still and it has been about 8 months since I screwed up."
i thought fuel cut off occurs somewhere around 9200 or so. what happened iin your situation? no cut off?
i thought fuel cut off occurs somewhere around 9200 or so. what happened iin your situation? no cut off?
I'm sure the fuel did cut off to the engine but it was the tranny that pulled the RPM's up from me switching into 2nd gear at about 65mph. So the tranny pulled the engine so hard that it was going up weather the fuel was there or not. I thought sure I blew it up...but nope, took it to the dealer since then and it still has a clean bill of health.
04-29-2005, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by StewC625
Ok, got me there bro ... and you're right, the WRX is immesely capable on the autocross track. I've driven one on it. But I think the guy that was doing the bitching was a drag-strip type.
Now, to your point about the need to constantly "bash other cars and make up nonsense about them"?
Come on ... dude, you're the king of bashing the RX-8. You're on an RX-8 forum, yet you seem to live here to point out that:
1) It's low on torque
2) It's lower on HP than other cars of comparable price
3) It doens't win national titles or whatever (Hmm ... C&D 10 Best List? Ward's "Best Engine" title two years in a row?, oh never mind)
4) It just doesn't compare to (pick one) the WRX, the EVO, etc.
Dude, you're the king of RX-8 bashing. I've never heard one positive thing from you about the car - or at least completely positive. You always say "well, I've driven the RX-8, and yeah it's (something positive) but, it's also (something more negative than your positive).
Yet, you always get honked off when someone says they don't like the WRX. And I don't. The only think I can say positively about it, is that yes, it is a good device for getting decent times on an autocross course. Doesn't mean I like it though, and I will never say I do like it. Just not a car for me.
However, the RX-8 IS the car for me and I will continue to enjoyably defend it's reputation against comparable cars of price and performance.
And lest anyone have any doubts, I do strongly believe that the S2000 is a higher-performing car than the RX-8. But I don't have one. I have the RX-8 ... because I like it better.
So there.
Happy Friday y'all. You've been a great audience. Try the veal.
Now, to your point about the need to constantly "bash other cars and make up nonsense about them"?
Come on ... dude, you're the king of bashing the RX-8. You're on an RX-8 forum, yet you seem to live here to point out that:
1) It's low on torque
2) It's lower on HP than other cars of comparable price
3) It doens't win national titles or whatever (Hmm ... C&D 10 Best List? Ward's "Best Engine" title two years in a row?, oh never mind)
4) It just doesn't compare to (pick one) the WRX, the EVO, etc.
Dude, you're the king of RX-8 bashing. I've never heard one positive thing from you about the car - or at least completely positive. You always say "well, I've driven the RX-8, and yeah it's (something positive) but, it's also (something more negative than your positive).
Yet, you always get honked off when someone says they don't like the WRX. And I don't. The only think I can say positively about it, is that yes, it is a good device for getting decent times on an autocross course. Doesn't mean I like it though, and I will never say I do like it. Just not a car for me.
However, the RX-8 IS the car for me and I will continue to enjoyably defend it's reputation against comparable cars of price and performance.
And lest anyone have any doubts, I do strongly believe that the S2000 is a higher-performing car than the RX-8. But I don't have one. I have the RX-8 ... because I like it better.
So there.
Happy Friday y'all. You've been a great audience. Try the veal.
2.) Again fact, not bashing
3.) I've said several times in this forum that I think the RX-8 is the car to have for BS and have been cheering on the guys in competition racing on.
4.) All I've ever really done is defend those cars from people like you, not much of saying they're superior cars to the RX-8.
I don't get "honked" off when people don't like the WRX, I have no problem with people not liking the car. It's when they make false statements about it that I have a problem or needlessly bash it by discounting it as an econobox pos like so many people on this forum do.
04-29-2005, 10:30 AM
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The other Modifry mods I have increase and decrease the volume on the radio automatically with speed (really useful in a car as noisy as the S2000
As much as the S2K cost and it doesn't come with the ALC to adjust the stereo volume?? :D
As much as the S2K cost and it doesn't come with the ALC to adjust the stereo volume?? :D
04-29-2005, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MTLbroker
True, true. I'm not belittling the Honda engine. You kinda hit the nail on the head in that the subjective perception of both engines at redline are different (for me anyways). At redline, the Honda engine seems a little more "kinetic" (for lack of a better term).
The 8 seems to get smoother as the rpms rise. I hit the rev limiter often in the 8 simply because there is no clue sensation-wise that I'm at 8500 and not 6500. I gotta pay more attention........ I must be getting old.
The 8 seems to get smoother as the rpms rise. I hit the rev limiter often in the 8 simply because there is no clue sensation-wise that I'm at 8500 and not 6500. I gotta pay more attention........ I must be getting old.
It is interesting how the noise difference gives such a different message. I had been driving my S2000 for 8 months when we test drove cars for my wife (who thought, for some reason, that it was not entirely fair that I got to drive the S2000 while she was driving the minivan). She quickly narrowed her choices down to the Mini Cooper S and the RX-8. We drove them back to back; no contest. But what was so interesting to me was that I hit 80 in our test drive getting on the highway, because I was so used to the noise and bump feedback from the S2000 that I didn't realize how fast I was going in the RX-8.
We bought the RX-8. :D
Both engines rev very willingly, but you get really different feedback from them!
04-29-2005, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bmcc49er
For as much as the S2K costs it doesn't come with a redline warning beeper?? :D
I put in a redline beeper for a bit less than you can put in a drop top.
04-29-2005, 10:41 AM
#86
Insanely Yellow
Originally Posted by IkeWRX
1.) That's fact, not bashing
2.) Again fact, not bashing
3.) I've said several times in this forum that I think the RX-8 is the car to have for BS and have been cheering on the guys in competition racing on.
4.) All I've ever really done is defend those cars from people like you, not much of saying they're superior cars to the RX-8.
I don't get "honked" off when people don't like the WRX, I have no problem with people not liking the car. It's when they make false statements about it that I have a problem or needlessly bash it by discounting it as an econobox pos like so many people on this forum do.
2.) Again fact, not bashing
3.) I've said several times in this forum that I think the RX-8 is the car to have for BS and have been cheering on the guys in competition racing on.
4.) All I've ever really done is defend those cars from people like you, not much of saying they're superior cars to the RX-8.
I don't get "honked" off when people don't like the WRX, I have no problem with people not liking the car. It's when they make false statements about it that I have a problem or needlessly bash it by discounting it as an econobox pos like so many people on this forum do.
1) A fact? No, it's subjective. Yes, it doesn't have as much torque as other cars, but I don't feel it's low on torque. Your insessant pointing out of this "fact" is offensive to many of us.
2) Ok, so it's lower. So what. Again, you constantly waving this in our faces as evidence that we bought a substandard car is bashing in my mind.
3) Yes, you're right here. Thanks.
4) Um ... ok, if that makes you feel better.
Actually, you do get mad. But, hey, whatever. You can slap a big engine into it, and it's still a Subaru Impreza. That's a fact. Now opinion: It still looks like a train station car with plastic wings from JC Whitney, than a serious performance car. And the doors still do make Subaru "whong" noise when you slam them (seriously, when the hell is Subaru going to listen to their doors slamming and realize how crappy that sounds?), and the interior is weird and unrefined, and the fit and finish is spotty at best. But, hey, It's a great car.
04-29-2005, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 124Spider
For as much as the RX-8 costs, it doesn't come with a drop-top? :D
I put in a redline beeper for a bit less than you can put in a drop top.
I put in a redline beeper for a bit less than you can put in a drop top.
The drop top would take away from the beautiful lines and you wouldn't be able to hear the redline warning or the stereo adjustment
Just playing. I would buy a S2K if I wanted a twoseater. But, now with the big jump in price from the 8 to the Honda I see Honda left out a few niceties also... :p
04-29-2005, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by khtm
I think Ike got just a little bit 0wned on that post
04-29-2005, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bmcc49er
The other Modifry mods I have increase and decrease the volume on the radio automatically with speed (really useful in a car as noisy as the S2000
As much as the S2K cost and it doesn't come with the ALC to adjust the stereo volume?? :D
As much as the S2K cost and it doesn't come with the ALC to adjust the stereo volume?? :D
That actually is the biggest knock on what otherwise is a spectacular car--why put a radio in it that's so bad you simply have to replace it? Why not either put a radio which actually is usable, or just wire it so the buyer can choose the radio?
04-29-2005, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by spork
sheesh, this thread has officially been hijacked.
04-29-2005, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bmcc49er
The drop top would take away from the beautiful lines and you wouldn't be able to hear the redline warning or the stereo adjustment
Just playing. I would buy a S2K if I wanted a twoseater. But, now with the big jump in price from the 8 to the Honda I see Honda left out a few niceties also... :p
Just playing. I would buy a S2K if I wanted a twoseater. But, now with the big jump in price from the 8 to the Honda I see Honda left out a few niceties also... :p
But that engine is worth all the loss of refinement! Driving the Honda on the track or in autocross is spectacular!
I know you're just playing, as am I. They're both great cars (which is why I have one of each
).
04-29-2005, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 124Spider
As Car & Driver said about the S2000, the engine alone is worth $33,000. I guess Honda agreed, and the car is lacking in much else in the way of refinement. :p
But that engine is worth all the loss of refinement! Driving the Honda on the track or in autocross is spectacular!
I know you're just playing, as am I. They're both great cars (which is why I have one of each ).
But that engine is worth all the loss of refinement! Driving the Honda on the track or in autocross is spectacular!
I know you're just playing, as am I. They're both great cars (which is why I have one of each
).I know and I would take both in a heartbeat. To have those two to chose to drive whenever must be great. I have it decent with the RX8 and my wife's 6 but not quite the same.
04-29-2005, 11:13 AM
#94
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Originally Posted by 124Spider
My S2000 peaks power at redline, so, when on the track, you want to redline it as you shift; shifting earlier slows you down. The problem, of course, is that right after redline comes the rev limiter, and you don't want to hit the rev limiter at 130 in turn 1. Also, you don't want to be watching the tach rather than the track (this is true in autocross, also). So Modifry made a little thing which plugs into the tach wire; you set it where you want it to beep; my car redlines at 8000, so I have it beep once at 7300, 7500 and 7700, and then stay on at 7900. It's a really useful mod. When you're ripping through it in first, second and even third, you just shift when you hear anything. It goes through fourth slower, so you can wait until after the 7700 beep before starting your shift. In fifth, you can wait until the 7900 beep. And the beep is so loud it's easy to hear with helmet on, top down, going 125 mph.
Also, you don't want to be watching the tach rather than the track (this is true in autocross, also). So Modifry made a little thing which plugs into the tach wire; you set it where you want it to beep; my car redlines at 8000, so I have it beep once at 7300, 7500 and 7700, and then stay on at 7900. It's a really useful mod. When you're ripping through it in first, second and even third, you just shift when you hear anything. It goes through fourth slower, so you can wait until after the 7700 beep before starting your shift. In fifth, you can wait until the 7900 beep. And the beep is so loud it's easy to hear with helmet on, top down, going 125 mph.
04-29-2005, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Glyphon
hmm...i wonder if said beeper would work on the 8? I can't see any reason why it wouldn't. and since you have an 8 also, you know how inaudible the beep can be. i can imagine in an autocross setting, with helmet on and windows down, that i'd never hear the buzzer.
It's a perfect mod for people who track or autocross the car, so you never have to take your eyes off the course.
04-29-2005, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NoCones
Huh? None of my gears top out at 47mph.
Originally Posted by me
the point is that no matter how they're geared, you need to shift more in the RX8 in order to stay within the RPM range with decent power.
Originally Posted by StewC625
I don't know about anyone else, but my car pulls VERY strong from 4000 RPM on up, and pulls decently from as low as 2800 RPM - on an autocross track recently, I was much faster pulling second gear through a corner where the revs dropped below 3000 RPM, than trying to downshift to first into that corner and come out at 6000 RPM, and have to shift immediately again.
I don't know the top speed in first, but if memory serves it's about 40 mph, and my car will pull 67 mph in second, which means that my very wide powerband on the autocross track is a significant advantage - guys with other cars (WRXs, S2000s, etc.) all were shifting on the straightway up to 3rd or were bouncing off their rev limiters while I was able to pull all the way to the braking point without needing to shift, then all over the brakes and leave it in second through the next turns. In fact, on this course, once out of first, that was it ...
I don't know the top speed in first, but if memory serves it's about 40 mph, and my car will pull 67 mph in second, which means that my very wide powerband on the autocross track is a significant advantage - guys with other cars (WRXs, S2000s, etc.) all were shifting on the straightway up to 3rd or were bouncing off their rev limiters while I was able to pull all the way to the braking point without needing to shift, then all over the brakes and leave it in second through the next turns. In fact, on this course, once out of first, that was it ...
Originally Posted by me
I've seen other people refer to useable powerband as the RPM range in which the torque curve is fairly flat... as far as acceleration goes, that's not meaningful beyond indicating how a car will behave within a certain gear (while the actual power band tells you what gear to be in).
As far as your second paragraph goes, if I remember correctly (which maybe I'm not) both the WRX and S2k redline in 2nd around 65-67 MPH. There are always specific speeds/situations in which one car has an advantage over another because their redline speeds are different (and then other speeds in which the second car has an advantage over the first). You may have had an advantage because you were able to stay in 2nd gear and keep the RPMs up while some other cars had to upshift to 3rd. But had that section of track allowed for you all to go to, say, 75 MPH, you might've been the one at the disadvantage.
Getting back to the topic, the highest redlining production car I know of is the 9500 RPM Honda S600. It weighed 1500 pounds and had a 0.6L engine... Honda built about 1,300 of them in the mid 1960s. After that, there's the 9000 RPM RX8 and 8900 RPM Honda S2000 (2.0L version). There may be others, but those are the highest I know of.
04-29-2005, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by spork
sheesh, this thread has officially been hijacked.
It seems nobody can come up with a normal current production car that can actually redline higer than the RX-8. The old S2K comes very close, but the 8's rev limiter doesn't actually kick in until around 9300 rpm on my car. The current S2K is at 8200, not close and sorry no cigar.
So I guess the Renesis can claim the title as the Redline King.
04-29-2005, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Want to remind me how many national titles the RX-8 has won, because the WRX has won some.
1. the WRX has been around at least 2 more years than the RX-8...how many RX-8's have even shown up in Topeka so far?
2. the base Mini Cooper has won titles too...does that make it the shiznit as a sports car? No...it's all about classing...and let's not forget that the RX-8 is in a faster stock class than the WRX.
I think the WRX is a great car...I've autocrossed one a few times in DS (including a top PAX performance) and it's a hoot...just wanted to shoot the proper holes in your "national title" comment.
04-29-2005, 01:26 PM
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As for national titles, the SpeedSource RX-8 is the 2004 ST GrandAm Champion. The RX-8 won a major racing championship in its first year right out of the box! And that's in a racing category that allows for minimal (relatively speaking) changes to the stock car.
04-29-2005, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by NoCones
well, in the case of autocross, let's remember:
1. the WRX has been around at least 2 more years than the RX-8...how many RX-8's have even shown up in Topeka so far?
2. the base Mini Cooper has won titles too...does that make it the shiznit as a sports car? No...it's all about classing...and let's not forget that the RX-8 is in a faster stock class than the WRX.
I think the WRX is a great car...I've autocrossed one a few times in DS (including a top PAX performance) and it's a hoot...just wanted to shoot the proper holes in your "national title" comment.
1. the WRX has been around at least 2 more years than the RX-8...how many RX-8's have even shown up in Topeka so far?
2. the base Mini Cooper has won titles too...does that make it the shiznit as a sports car? No...it's all about classing...and let's not forget that the RX-8 is in a faster stock class than the WRX.
I think the WRX is a great car...I've autocrossed one a few times in DS (including a top PAX performance) and it's a hoot...just wanted to shoot the proper holes in your "national title" comment.