cas2themoe

Exactly what I feel when I'm driving

RX8rider

When I started this thread I meant RX8 vs. other street cars. I'm not comparing our redline to an F1....let's not kid ourselves.

124Spider

Uninsulated engine bay does not equal "about to explode." To the initiated ear, that beautiful Honda engine is just singing loudly at high rpm, not complaining in the least.

If you ignore the noise, actually both engines seem quite happy to keep going. I installed a redline warning beeper in my Honda to tell me as I approach redline, since my S2000 hits maximum power at redline, just as it hits the rev limiter, and there's no indication that it's interested in being shifted until the rev limiter kicks in.

Both engines are great fun to use.

Ellar

No kidding ourselves? I wonder what that'll do to the overall post count. Maybe they'll have the extra bandwidth and disk space to open a forum for a topic less provocative than RX-8's, like politics.

DrKillJoY

For street rotaries the 8000-9000 redline is mostly related with drivetrain (clutch/pressureplate/rotating assemblies) lifespan rather than the actual motor assembly.

Aseras

yeah i tried to cover that earlier.. most of the blowm motors Ive' ever seen are from people redlining the crap out of their rx7 and slipping the clutch enough that the flywhell got hot and literally exploded ripping itself apart.. the motor was still fine.

PoorCollegeKid

F1s can hit north of 18,000rpm on a good day. I believe that the 2004 BMW-Williams engine was limited to 18,600 rpm, and the others were all in the same neighborhood. One of the neat thing about those engines is that, due to their configuration, rapid response, and high speed limiters, they can actually play a fairly wide range of distinct successive musical notes. One team (Asiatech, I believe) set up their engine to play "When the Saints Come Marching In" a few years back. Cool stuff

cas2themoe

How did you do that? Thats pretty neat! Was the RX8's designed the same?

termigni

you know i'm telling the truth about the 8. it isn't ONLY me that is saying the things i said, there are many people who complain and get out of rx8 ownership due to rx8's characteristics.

go drive a WRX, not even STi, just WRX. it may not have the highest RPMs around but it has more "usable" powerband than rx8 on the streets for sure.

by the way, not all people who talk **** about rx8 belongs in NEON forum.

StewC625

I've driven the WRX, and I don't like it at all. It's an ugly, unrefined car. This car is so much more than straight-line performance at a drag strip (which still is not bad, in my book) - it's immensely capable on the autocross and road courses, is fantastic on twisty public roads, yet is quiet and comfortable for a long distance road trip with THREE other people in the car.

Hey, nothing you're going to say is going to make me dislike this car. It's not some rice-boy car - it's a pure out and out sports car desiged for all-around enjoyment.

Ok, now go back to the WRX forum instead.

Deslock

I consider the "useable power band" (the RPMs at which the car makes decent power) to be ~3800-7000 for the WRX and ~6000-9500 for the RX8. While the RX8's band has slightly more RPMs, the WRX's is [1] wider proportionally: it's 46% of its total RPM range while the RX8's is 37% and [2] starts proportionally lower (3.8/7k vs 6/9.5k). As a result, if the WRX starts at the low end of its powerband at 30 MPH, it can go to 55 MPH before shifting while the RX8 would need to shift at 47 MPH. Now the cars aren't geared the same, so that exact situation may not be possible, but the point is that no matter how they're geared, you need to shift more in the RX8 in order to stay within the RPM range with decent power.

Even if (for the sake of argument) we assumed that the power bands are usable over the longer RPM ranges you mentioned, the WRX's would still be wider for the same reasons (i.e. proportionally, 2-6.9k is wider than 3-9.3k).

I've seen other people refer to useable powerband as the RPM range in which the torque curve is fairly flat... as far as acceleration goes, that's not meaningful beyond indicating how a car will behave within a certain gear (while the actual power band tells you what gear to be in).

If by useable you mean the RPM range for everyday driving, "normal traffic" acceleration at low speeds doesn't need a lot of power and you only need 10-20 hp to maintain highway speeds... so yes you can get away with driving at those low RPMs. But then again most econoboxes have enough power for those situations... merging/passing on the highway or spirited driving is where the difference is noticeble; there are times when you need to drop from 6th to 3rd on the RX8 while you only need to go from 5th to 4th in the WRX.

Doesn't bother me as that's how the car was designed to be driven, though there are track situations in which it can be disadvantageous.

MTLbroker

True, true. I'm not belittling the Honda engine. You kinda hit the nail on the head in that the subjective perception of both engines at redline are different (for me anyways). At redline, the Honda engine seems a little more "kinetic" (for lack of a better term).

The 8 seems to get smoother as the rpms rise. I hit the rev limiter often in the 8 simply because there is no clue sensation-wise that I'm at 8500 and not 6500. I gotta pay more attention........ I must be getting old.

Glyphon

just thought i'd share, "usable" power band starts at around 1750 for daily driving (a little north of 2000 for hills). And if i want to gun it and get past some one, thats not a problem after ~2500. And considering that it goes up to 9000, i'd consider that a very usable power band (7250 wide for daily driving, 6500 wide for passing).

most people seem to forget that peak horse power is just 1 number to describe a car, and 0-60 is just one aspect of its performance. too many people have been brainwashed by marketing to think that horsepower and 0-60 times are the only things too look at to determine the value of a car.

Personally, I'd rather have a car that may not be the fastest thing on the road but out handles and out brakes just about everything out there, especially considering its price.

NoCones

Huh? None of my gears top out at 47mph.

StewC625

I don't know about anyone else, but my car pulls VERY strong from 4000 RPM on up, and pulls decently from as low as 2800 RPM - on an autocross track recently, I was much faster pulling second gear through a corner where the revs dropped below 3000 RPM, than trying to downshift to first into that corner and come out at 6000 RPM, and have to shift immediately again.

I don't know the top speed in first, but if memory serves it's about 40 mph, and my car will pull 67 mph in second, which means that my very wide powerband on the autocross track is a significant advantage - guys with other cars (WRXs, S2000s, etc.) all were shifting on the straightway up to 3rd or were bouncing off their rev limiters while I was able to pull all the way to the braking point without needing to shift, then all over the brakes and leave it in second through the next turns. In fact, on this course, once out of first, that was it ...

bmcc49er

For as much as the S2K costs it doesn't come with a redline warning beeper?? :D

StewC625

Not a beeper. More like a spark knocker ... or a piston slapper

Actually, I refuse to knock the S2K. If it weren't a 2-seater, I'd be driving that versus the RX-8 but it's due to the relationship I have with the dealer over anything else.

bmcc49er

I like it too. It was all in fun...

Ike

Great Stew, now would you like to show me where I said the RX-8 lacks usable power powerband compared to a WRX? I simply made a statement, I never compared it to the WRX. In fact when I made the statement I was thinking of the 04+ S2K which redlines lower but has more usable powerband. There are other cars that come to mind as well but I wasn't trying to make a specific comparison, just saying that a high redline is pointless if you're rarely using the lower end of the range.

Ike

Want to remind me how many national titles the RX-8 has won, because the WRX has won some. To say the WRX is just a "straight-line performance" car is totally ignorant. I'll never understand why you and so many others feel the need to constantly bash other cars and make up nonsense about them.

StewC625

Sorry Ike, but with WRX in your name, I automatically presume you ARE comparing it to the WRX. Just a silly assumption of mine.

I do agree, the 04 S2K has a sweet engine. But it doesn't give you that rotary buzz in the seat of your pants, does it? JAFPE baby. (Just Another ******* Piston Engine).

Seroiusly though, I really don't understand why anyone who has driven an RX-8 for any length of time, or owns one would refute that the car has an immensely broad powerband. Yes, it doesn't really start until 3000 RPM, a point where most cars are already halfway to redline (and I will give you the S2K on that one - that car is decidely not "most cars"), and pulls seamlessly and insanely all the way past the redline and into the rev limiter. That's 6300 RPMs of pure, out and out fun.

This car is like a hot bouncy blonde with a big rack, legs up to there, a shaved -----, and a morally casual attitude. What's not to like? :D

Ike

Funny, because it's not often that I compare the WRX to the RX-8 unless someone else brings it up. So I'm not sure why you would make assumptions.

I'm sorry Stew but your butt dyno must be broken. The RX-8 is gutless below 4k RPMs, and to say that is pulls "insanely" or "VERY hard" all the way to redline makes me think that you really need to experience what a really fast car is. Again, not comparing it to a stock WRX since they're about the same when it comes to just mashing on the gas. There's nothing insane about the way the RX-8 pulls at any RPM.

StewC625

Ok, got me there bro ... and you're right, the WRX is immesely capable on the autocross track. I've driven one on it. But I think the guy that was doing the bitching was a drag-strip type.

Now, to your point about the need to constantly "bash other cars and make up nonsense about them"?

Come on ... dude, you're the king of bashing the RX-8. You're on an RX-8 forum, yet you seem to live here to point out that:

1) It's low on torque
2) It's lower on HP than other cars of comparable price
3) It doens't win national titles or whatever (Hmm ... C&D 10 Best List? Ward's "Best Engine" title two years in a row?, oh never mind)
4) It just doesn't compare to (pick one) the WRX, the EVO, etc.

Dude, you're the king of RX-8 bashing. I've never heard one positive thing from you about the car - or at least completely positive. You always say "well, I've driven the RX-8, and yeah it's (something positive) but, it's also (something more negative than your positive).

Yet, you always get honked off when someone says they don't like the WRX. And I don't. The only think I can say positively about it, is that yes, it is a good device for getting decent times on an autocross course. Doesn't mean I like it though, and I will never say I do like it. Just not a car for me.

However, the RX-8 IS the car for me and I will continue to enjoyably defend it's reputation against comparable cars of price and performance.

And lest anyone have any doubts, I do strongly believe that the S2000 is a higher-performing car than the RX-8. But I don't have one. I have the RX-8 ... because I like it better.

So there.

Happy Friday y'all. You've been a great audience. Try the veal.

Wurmfist

I think it is the apex and other seals. That and the belts and stuff tend to fly off when you get really high. I think when I started getting interested in the 8 well over 2 years ago I heard someone say that with the proper equipment, seals, belts, and what not. The renesis could go to 20k rpms. I don't know if that is true or not, someone else probably has a better idea than me. I think we have to keep in mind that it's the center shaft that's running at 9000rpms and not the rotars themselves. The rotars are what? 1/3 slower than the RPM's on the tach, somthing like that. It probably dosen't really matter though.

Rx8bydocabe

"The tach pinged as far to the right as it would go. I had no idea what RPM's it was, but it was a heck of a lot higher than 10k. I thought sure I blew something up, but nope, it's been running fine still and it has been about 8 months since I screwed up."

i thought fuel cut off occurs somewhere around 9200 or so. what happened iin your situation? no cut off?