raphy3

Well, you're alive because probably you know how to drive.
I think the point me and some people are making is that DSC is good to have for sticky situations. It does not prevent you from fubarring your car if you drive like a maniac. No one's saying it's the end all be all ***-saver. You need to know how to drive first! Heck this is my first car with DSC, but also only my first RWD.

I would be so scared to be in an RX8 with someone who actually sucked at driving. This thing can turn into a lethal weapon when wielded by the sufficiently unintelligent.

DSC may blunt some of that effect, it's not a cure-all. Can't hurt to have it though right? I also agree that people shouldn't feel overconfident just because they have all these safety features.

Bri3L6

i was in an accident with my 8 not too long ago ...give it some time, the car gets fixed up fine and youll be able to put it behind you

maybe you should practice in a parking lot next time it snows ??

jeffe19007

It doesn't count if your car doesn't have limited slip. You always have one wheel that isn't spinning.

scremn8

i must have missed something about dsc. i've been driving since 1977, we had no dsc. so i learned how to drive properly, i don't knock dsc i know what it's there for.
but when you say you can't drive without, then everyone needs to get in the old 67 cougar i use to drive, you learn how to drive real quick. when you have a car like this and you drive it fast yeah have it on for safety.
but then what about all the other cars and drivers that don't have dsc, should they
be on the road at all???

laythor

I've never been hit by lightning.. I guess that means I'll never be hit by lightning.

rotary.enthusiast

Here's what I think: you never had a problem because the Eclipse is a FWD understeering pig, and if you drove one old enough to not have ABS it didn't make any power either. I never had any problems losing control on my 85 Civic either

Anyway, the Dunlops I got on my 8 stock were flat out scary when they got wet. They didn't hydroplane, they just completely let go of the road... even slightly damp pavement, or rolling through a small puddle they would break loose. With good all weather tires the 8 isn't that hard to handle in the rain. I still drive with DSC on though.

PerSmitt

Seriously if you get in a slide and the DSC kicks in it will prevent the slide much faster than you ever could. See it as counter-steering, catching the tail end and aligning the car in one fast fluid motion that is much quicker than an ordinary human could do it.

Yes the DSC would hamper you from drifting or doing any other extravagant move to avoid a danger. It will keep the car aligned in the direction the steering wheel is pointed, and the care will act very predictably except for gas response. In a panic situation i think personally full throttle is the last thing you need.

Of course you can drive without DSC though but you don't have a safety net then. And if you have a safety net then why cut a hole in it by turning off the DSC? And yes you have practiced driving and controlled skidding, good for you. And no in a bad enough panic situation you will still fail and crash just like anyone else. Why? Because it is a panic situation and thus we make mistakes. The computer doesn't make that mistake.

Our main gripe is not all the RX-8s without DSC. They are that way and so be it. What we gripe about are the idiots having DSC and turning it off thinking they are godlike behind the wheel. Learn some maturity and humility please.

laythor

my statement was just another way of stating what you have already said... so you see what i did there?


Turning off a device that can increase the handling of your car in a panic situation makes as much sense as assuming you'll do the right thing in an abnormal situation when by it's very definition it's not a situation you expected to find yourself in.

PerSmitt

I think he is a lost cause though. He think he is godlike behind the wheel and those people can never be reached with common sense. I mean even Michael Schumacher hit a pedestrian recently. He made a mistake, which is human. And as such I think casedogg can make a mistake too, or are you a better driver than Schumi, casedogg?

Yes I know no sliding was involved in the accident that I am referring to but that is beside the point. The point is in a quick panic situation anyone can make a mistake.

neXib

I think everyone of us have at some point in time done something stupid in traffic, where either quick reaction or luck have saved our ***. DSC is another safety net to add to that. It's stupid to turn it off for normal driving.

My driving teacher instructed me to don't get into the panic mode if something unpredictable happens, as in just pushing the brake pedal. He thought that if you are young, pay attention and react quick it's often better to think for half a second than braking immediately.

He proved his point by someone he drove with that accelerated onto the freeway, but another car was standing still on the end of the ramp and a semi was to his left and another car behind him. He panicked and stepped on the brake pedal, but the driving teacher immediately floored it and got on the freeway before the semi and the stationary car in front. He'd probably get the car behind him in his back otherwise.

I have never actually had ABS engage on my cars except on a day with icey asphalt and summer tires (that was hell). Because I always think slightly, then feel the brakes to brake more effective. Seems to work. I am not superhuman though, DSC could save my *** if I lost the car in a corner, I could only save my *** if I only begin to feel it drift, not if it goes completely wrong. And on rain, the car IS a bit twitchy on original tires.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

If all the DSC haters were really as good as they claim to be, they should not have to worry about deactivating the DSC because on a public road it should never activate at all, under any circumstance, because their gifted abilities should catch the car in a slide before it gets the >20 degree yaw rate needed to activate the system....

this should be a moot point folks... the fact it isn't leads me to believe some of the "haters" are either not as good as they claim or not driving as safe as they should be on public roads... or both

raphy3

Man my ABS on my old Tiburon would engage immediately if while braking I hit a bump in the road. It was so annoying. I always thought, stupid car I'm alright nothing's happening. But I was glad it was there.

It didn't have DSC. Big surprise: It's a FWD. All those people posting about "I survived the onslaught without DSC for 40 years w00t!" Gimme a break. If the car was FWD it's completely different. I once drove the car 70 miles in the middle of a blizzard, cars were crashed on the side of the road all over the place (counted 22 total). I would never want to have to do that trip in my 8, especially without DSC.

Deathcraft

Here's what I think: You're MISSING my point. If you're going to quote me, quote the whole comment. Don't just take a small portion that just doesn't mean anything....or you just deleted the rest cuz you couldn't handle the truth?

Eclipse is just a random example cuz thats what I had. I was not saying I was alive because I had an eclipse.

And what's up with "eclipse not making any power?" Anyone can get in accident whether they drive a 70hp smart car or 500hp lamboghini... You think me not getting in an accident was because I drove an eclipse?? ...ah...ok? lol

My whole point is we didn't have all these high-tech safety features on our cars back in the days. On both FWD cars and RWD cars (Mustangs, Cameros, etc,..) Most people survived thru the whole driving without DSC or/and ABS.
I was just saying young people these days became so dependent on the technology that they thought they could drive like a maniac and safety feature(s) on their cars would prevent them from ever getting in accident... that's not how it works .....
These safety features would not help, if you drove like a maniac or stupidly drunk and drove.... that's the point I was making...so quote that!

O ..and...I don't hate DSC...... that's just ridiculous....! I have it on my 8 and it's ALWAYS on!

But maybe you're an eclipse hater?

mikesol

Just to clarify in case anyone is confused or is still bothering to call me a dumbass:

1. I admitted in the thread title that I am a dumbass and that what I did was stupid.

2. Traction control WOULD have probably saved my ***, because with it on the oversteer is far less rampant. I wouldn't have panicked.

3. I did panic and I did do exactly the wrong thing. I should have tried to mediate my way out of it with gentle steering and a bit of gas.
Instead, I slammed on the brakes and cranked the wheel. I think my instinct was to assume that I was going to plow off of the embankment because that was in front of me, when in reality I was going sideways and not actually moving towards the embankment at all.

Years of FWD driving gave me the exact opposite reflex from what I needed. The car ended up slingshotting around and putting all the force into the lane divider.

Look, of course people safely drove cars with no ABS and DSC and everything else for years and years. There's nothing inherently dangerous about driving without all these electronic aids if you know what you're doing. It's the situation where you don't know what you're doing, or even worse when you THINK you do but you don't really, that driving a car with no helpers becomes more dangerous.
I don't think the DSC / ABS / airbags / condoms make me invincible, but I do think they would help me to not slip out as far as I did. Every little bit helps to cover for a bad decision.

Oh, and I'm not American, we do have some driver training up here in Canada, but they don't ever do anything like put you into a rough situation and see how you'd come out of it. Might be a good idea, but if they did, 90% of people who are on our roads now wouldn't be.

Next time, well, there won't be a next time because I'm going to drive like I'm sitting on a bed of nails for quite some time. I may go out for some autocross eventually but I think in the meantime I'm going to focus on just getting around safely.

Deathcraft

^^Dude...nobody was calling you a dumbass. Atleast I know I wasn't. So calm down! lol

And we're all sorry that it happened to you. We all make mistakes in our lives from time to time... I know I do. And sometimes things just happen.... We pick up the pieces and move on...

All I was doing is ...just making a general point.... not really trying to target anyone in particular. or rain on your parade.. ......

I never said those safety features were useless.... NEVER! lol....

So everyone....just chill....!

raphy3

Well put. Driver education is definitely something we need more of here in America I think.
In France they have a whole industry built around the whole thing. Everyone is required to take driving classes before getting a license.

But well said about DSC. The problem with some people here is they're saying "I don't need help, I know exactly what's happening at all times, I survived without DSC in my FWD for 20 years, I never make bad decisions."

Darn whippersnappers. We just don't know how it is. ...Even though pretty much every single person on this forum has driven a car without DSC at some point. We're still all alive, hmm. I guess that's not the point, is it. We have DSC now. So there's no point telling people "don't use it".

The only bad decision would be getting DSC, turning it off, and then driving like an idiot. Driving like an idiot with it on is a pretty bad decision, too,
lol.

edit to add @ Deathcraft:
Oops just read your last post. Sorry to fan the flames if it seems some of us are flaming you. Not at all from my part. These are just general comments - there were others a few pages back who actually made claims that DSC was a hindrance to safety and others who said they'd drive with it off all the time!

rotary.enthusiast

Yup, you caught me. All that crap about snowboarding and your dad's corolla was the real meat of that post. The "truth" if you will.

That might not be what you were saying, but it's what I'm saying. If you're driving a FWD car that makes very little power, the chances of losing control of it in bad weather are pretty much nil. Even if you do lose traction you're not going to spin out of control, you're going to go straight (which could be bad too, but not nearly as often). Point being you can get away with driving like a moron in a car like that without DSC.

And yes, "lots of people" don't get in accidents in high performance RWD cars without DSC. Plenty of people do. I just saw a totaled Mustang on the highway a few weeks ago that spun out of control in the rain.

I believe the whole point of this thread has been that the DSC would have prevented mikesol's accident. More prudent driving would have also been good, but everybody makes mistakes occasionally.

bravo

The AWD turbo eclipses were OK... the rest were largely trash. Haven't driven one of the new ones.

There, I quoted your entire post. Happy?

Endor

Exactly. As a human being, you don't have 4 brake pedals that can independently control each wheel. The DSC system does. I guess I just don't understand the people who think the DSC system makes the car less predictable. I've driven my RX-8 in rainy, snowy, and icy conditions many times, and every time DSC kicks in it just points my car straight again, slows me down, and blinks some lights at me to tell me to stop driving like such an *******. It can't imagine how it could be more predictable.

Yes I'll turn it off in certain circumstances (low speed and snowy) when I know there won't be any other cars around, and the only person I could hurt is myself.

Driving "enthusiasts" have been making this claim since seat belts were invented. "Damn nanny engineers!! I never wear my seatbelt because it makes me drive more carefully. And I've never been in an accident in 20 years of driving so I don't need it!" That's great, but a personal anecdote is no replacement for a nation-wide safety study, and it won't prevent some ******* who's not paying attention from t-boning your car at 50 MPH. Safety features like seatbelts, airbags, crumple zones, ABS, and DSC save lives. Period. They might reduce your "fun" a little bit, but that's what track days are for.

JTK07

Hey man,

sorry about ur luck but on the bright side u seem smart enough to say hey i f'ed up here is what i learned and im willing to tell anyone that might think of this - hey stupid bad idea. i commend you! glad ur ok and so should you be. now remember any car u get from the insurance get the extra insurance!!! it may to save ur a$$!

- JT

Phoenix0326

WOW!!.. Not at ALL what I'm saying. All actions have consequences, yes... and part of his driving without the traction control on the wet surface is lack of 'experience' driving... most people would KNOW better. He's lucky there weren't worse consequences to what happen and he will know better next time. That does NOT mean that killing someone, accident or not, is okay....

elysium19

iTrader: (1)

I actually had a spin just like this just today.

Light rain outside and i was in a small road leading to a parking lot, and thought it'd be fun to pop DSC off and slide around the (visible) corner. Unfortunately, it was chilly (~45 degrees) and wet, and I still have my strictly summer tires on (potenza S-03 pole position) and the grip was both weak and really unpredictable.

The "drift" went overboard and i oversteered a whole 180. Thankfully I waited till I was completely reversed direction to begin to completeyl back off the throttle and counter the turn (picture a backwards J-turn) and managed to avoid hitting the curb. Still, I've done a fair amount of sideways play before but this caught me completely off guard. The moral of the story is that even if you think you have fairly good car control, different weather conditions or any other circumstances can make the car's behavior far less predictable.

BTW, I would never play around like this if there were any other cars/people around. I'm fine with people who like to play around depending on their comfort level and driving skill and willingness to take risks with their own car. But don't EVER be a douche and put other's lives at risk....

DarkLord7854

I kinda skipped over most of the posts (ok.. all of them except the first page...).

But wouldn't clicking DSC back on right the car up and prevent the wreck/accident?

I know you'd need some tremendous reaction time and precision to mash that button in time, but just wondering if it could have a positive effect..

newguy

^not possible imo more likely youd end up popping your trunk after you wreck and come to a stop. keep both hands on the wheel avoid brake pedal and counter steer like a madman

neXib

I heard that it works if you at the same time yell "Oh my God I'm a dumbass, SAVE ME COMPUTER!"