Dealer says Ignition Coils F&**C
07-16-2008, 01:23 AM
#27
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Please elaborate .
There is a thread on here where everyone raves about them - but there are stories around from few who don't . I for one would like to get to the bottom of this ....
With regard to the other 2 options - I guess you are right in that they are as yet untested . Mazsport however has 100s of them out there with only a few detractors.
BTW - I do have them and they have been fine for me (apart from a cel due to JDM ECU differences)
There is a thread on here where everyone raves about them - but there are stories around from few who don't . I for one would like to get to the bottom of this ....
With regard to the other 2 options - I guess you are right in that they are as yet untested . Mazsport however has 100s of them out there with only a few detractors.
BTW - I do have them and they have been fine for me (apart from a cel due to JDM ECU differences)
The mazsport product is nice, well put together and complete. The problem is you can't beat the physics and the physics of the coils provided by Mazsport require a longer charge time than what the RX8 PCM is designed for.
If you're interested in the subject, google "dwell" to see what I'm talking about. The coil creates a magnetic field until it's fully charged and when that field is destoryed it creates a spark.
The coils do create a better spark but in the lower and mid-ranges where the coil has ample time to charge. Since the rotor turns slower at lower RPMS, the coil has a larger window to charge. As much as 20ms at low RPMS.
However, at higher RPM's the coil has less time to charge and thus produces less spark. This is why some are seeing a power fall off where they would normally maintain or gain power.
While Mazsport has said these coils can be tuned so the dwell operates properly with the RX8, I would prefer a setup which is designed to work right out of the box and do so in all RPM ranges.
As for the upcoming BHR kit, initial parts of the kit have been ran on MazdaManaic's RX8 for several months including a time attack and HPDE event with much success. Easy_E is currently testing the yukon coil set on his RX8 and I know I'm looking forward to the finished product.
Sorry to threadjack! I just wanted to drop some information in here for everyone.
07-16-2008, 01:58 AM
#30
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I believe it has more to do with the coils not matching up with all of the car's needs than anything else. The coils that Mazsport provide work within the range of the PCM but taper off in the upper RPM range.
I've been told that tuning can account for the difference in dwell but I have no idea how much success people have had with that.
07-16-2008, 02:06 AM
#31
well the explanation given by Scott was that the existing dwell settings were fine for N/A use but needed tuning for high hp turbo applications .
With this knowledge there should be no reason not to go with the Mazsport coils either way .
N/A - ok as is
Turbo - you are going to have the capability of tweaking the dwell with your engine management system.
Lets not forget that the highest hp turbo systems yet seen on the Renesis are using these coils .
With this knowledge there should be no reason not to go with the Mazsport coils either way .
N/A - ok as is
Turbo - you are going to have the capability of tweaking the dwell with your engine management system.
Lets not forget that the highest hp turbo systems yet seen on the Renesis are using these coils .
07-16-2008, 09:54 AM
#32
Finally Boosted!!!!!!!
I have the Mazsport ignition solution and I have a turbo car. MazdaManiac tuned the Dwell settings for the coils using the Interceptor-X. When we started tuning my car we were getting a stumble from about 4500rpm all the way through about 7500rpm on just 7psi. This makes sense because that is where the torque peak is and the car is injesting the highest air and fuel. we gradually increased the Dwell from the OEM 2ms setting all the way up to 3.5ms. Now there is no stumble and the car pulls hard all the way through to 8500rpm.
I know some people say the Mazsport ignition solution caused problems. However, I don't think their issue is as much about the ignition solution as it is about the realease of the ignition solution without all the information. When the ignition solution was released no one was told that they would have to tune the Dwell. I don't think people are complaining about the product as much as they are complaining about the problems that were caused by the lack of information. When it comes to tuning high horsepower cars information is key and without it there is an increased risk of catastrophic failure.
I know some people say the Mazsport ignition solution caused problems. However, I don't think their issue is as much about the ignition solution as it is about the realease of the ignition solution without all the information. When the ignition solution was released no one was told that they would have to tune the Dwell. I don't think people are complaining about the product as much as they are complaining about the problems that were caused by the lack of information. When it comes to tuning high horsepower cars information is key and without it there is an increased risk of catastrophic failure.
07-16-2008, 02:45 PM
#35
I have the Mazsport ignition solution and I have a turbo car. MazdaManiac tuned the Dwell settings for the coils using the Interceptor-X. When we started tuning my car we were getting a stumble from about 4500rpm all the way through about 7500rpm on just 7psi. This makes sense because that is where the torque peak is and the car is injesting the highest air and fuel. we gradually increased the Dwell from the OEM 2ms setting all the way up to 3.5ms. Now there is no stumble and the car pulls hard all the way through to 8500rpm.
.
.
Are the Mazsport coils weaker than stock at the OEM 2ms setting ? If that were the case all the N/A cars with the coils should be altering their dwell as well and as most people that are N/A don't have the ability to do this ........ Not good !
The other thing that occurred to me : when these first came out they were touted as the "solution" to getting high hp (over 330whp) from the renesis. The 360whp dyno that was posted seemed to prove this . To get there they were running at 12-14 PSI I believe . If tdiddy was having blowout at 7 PSI then that car at 12-14psi would surley be having that issue as well . So - Scott must have altered the dwell to get that 360hp car running ..... What conclusion do we draw from that ?
Last edited by Brettus; 07-16-2008 at 02:59 PM.
07-16-2008, 03:28 PM
#36
it is not stated that you have to tune the dwell settings for n/a applications. i am n/a and i did not have any success with them. with the money that i sold mine i bought a cobb accessport, now i have the ability to change the dwell settings but it doesnt matter. my money is limited. but yeah, i have read a lot of the stuff thats been posted about dwell settings.
i would have preferred a solution that worked as stated. right out of the box.
i would have preferred a solution that worked as stated. right out of the box.
07-16-2008, 03:36 PM
#37
Finally Boosted!!!!!!!
The differences are in the tune. I was running below 10:1 AFR when we started experiencing the stumble. As we brought the AFR closer to 11.5:1 the stumble was not as noticible. Eventually, we could only feel a slight stumble between 6000rpm and 7000rpm. Thats when we started to adjust the dwell and everything just sorta came together. My car is somewhere in the 270-280whp range on 7psi. With AFR's below 10:1 I dont' think the OEM coils would ignite the mixture.
07-16-2008, 06:30 PM
#42
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Thread is still on topic. Whats the best solution for a set of bad coils. BHR has a kit in the works. Mazport has a kit, and there are OEM coils too. Discussing the merits, pros and cons of each system is completely on topic.
Keep the hard data and personal experiences coming.
Keep the hard data and personal experiences coming.
07-16-2008, 06:46 PM
#43
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I had some dyno runs done with the factory ignition back in May, and I'm going back on the dynojet this saturday with the mazsport coils-wires-NGK plugs
I'll add my results this weekend
I'll add my results this weekend
07-16-2008, 07:40 PM
#44
Finally Boosted!!!!!!!
My comments are on topic. The OEM coils can begin to experinece "spark blowout" on a stock car when the AFR is 12:1 or richer. I know because I had this problem when I dyno'd my car before I installed my turbo kit. I was running the OEM tune and the OEM coils.
After I installed the turbo kit and the Mazsport Ignition Solution, my car would run well with AFRs richer than 11.5:1 on 7psi with the exception or the 6000-7000rpm range. That tells me that the Mazsport Ignition solution is better than the OEM coils on a N/A car because it could ignite a mixture with the same dwell setting that the OEM coils could not.
Had we brought the AFRs up to 12:1 or leaner while tuning I am very confident that the Mazsport Ignition Solution would have ignited the mixture at all rpm ranges with the OEM dwell settings. IMO there is nothing a properly functioning N/A car can throw at the Mazsport Ignition Solution that it could not ignite. I was running about 100 more horsepower before the OEM dwell settings began to affect the Mazsport Coils ability to ignite the mixture.
After I installed the turbo kit and the Mazsport Ignition Solution, my car would run well with AFRs richer than 11.5:1 on 7psi with the exception or the 6000-7000rpm range. That tells me that the Mazsport Ignition solution is better than the OEM coils on a N/A car because it could ignite a mixture with the same dwell setting that the OEM coils could not.
Had we brought the AFRs up to 12:1 or leaner while tuning I am very confident that the Mazsport Ignition Solution would have ignited the mixture at all rpm ranges with the OEM dwell settings. IMO there is nothing a properly functioning N/A car can throw at the Mazsport Ignition Solution that it could not ignite. I was running about 100 more horsepower before the OEM dwell settings began to affect the Mazsport Coils ability to ignite the mixture.
08-07-2008, 10:29 PM
#46
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Are the coils the same for all 4? Or are they like the plugs, different for leading and trailing? Also, I've replaced all new plugs about 3 month ago, and my coils just went bad. Should I replace the plugs again? The dealership told me that bad coils can cause plug fauling in very short amount of time.
08-08-2008, 02:08 AM
#49
Are the coils the same for all 4? Or are they like the plugs, different for leading and trailing? Also, I've replaced all new plugs about 3 month ago, and my coils just went bad. Should I replace the plugs again? The dealership told me that bad coils can cause plug fauling in very short amount of time.
beers
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