IIIseries

I went by a local dealer to check out another 8 since I recently put it back on my list. The salesman was all too eager for me to drive one, though I didnt even ask (I think it was because I showed up driving my wife's G35c).

He took it off the lot first and surprised me by taking it all the way to redline on the str8away in front of the dealership. When we switched places down the road, I looked down and saw that this car had 4 miles on it! 4 miles and this dude hit redline more than once in just two minutes behind the wheel.

Stuff like this is why I will always always order every car I buy. You never know what some goofball has done to it before you pick it up.

RX22

That's one of the main reasons I ordered mine. I've already told the sales manager it isn't to be driven at all when it comes in. I've never had a salesman tell me to keep the revs low in a new car. They should really have one car for test drives only.

jtimbck2

What a horrible way to treat a car just off the truck! You should post the name of the dealer so at least no unfortunate soul here ends up buying that one.

BillK

Problem is you have no way of knowing if the service techs will do this during the required PDI or not. One would hope not, but there's of course nothing saying the tech didn't feel like winding one out that day...

RobDickinson

Dont know about in the US but I think it'll be the same there.

All cars sold in Europe since 2001(I think) have to have an ECU that logs a ton of stuff.

With Companies like Lotus having restrictive running in procedures for the first 1000miles (and possibly refusing warrenty issues if these havnt been adhered too) customers are asking for ECU printouts that show peak rpm, time@rpm etc.

You could ask for this on a demo'd car to make sure it';d been treated as in the running in instructions and refuse the car or bargain for $ off price.

Worth a try.

RX8 Seller

Just my 2 cents, the manual does not state anywhere, nor have the Mazda reps told us to not redline the car. The only thing that has been told to us, is to let the water temp warm up first? The car is designed to run with higher rpm's so use em. The only thing that is stated is do not run for extended periods of time over 7k rpm. Having said that, we do have a demo car at my dealership, but it runs every bit as good as a "babied" car will. The car runs as perfect today as it did on the first test drive. Once again, just my thoughts not disagreing with anyone.

Stu C

Got to agree with this. Nowhere does it say it is critical to keep the revs low. It is just suggested that the 1st 1000km be kept at lower revs, probably Mazda playing it real safe more than anything.


STU

Spin9k

That statement above about sums up your advice, me thinks.

All I can say vaughnc is that your an annal kinda guy (no offense intended) when it comes to cars if you honestly believe this BS you write.

IOW you gota be shi**ing me! Is this an antique car your talking about or a modern sports car?? Mazda doesn't recommend, advise, or agree with anything you say to the best of my knowledge.

zoom44

the manual also says not to take it to full throttle during the break in. and vaughn the break in procedure you describe is not in the manual for the rx-8. while your way may be more prudent it is not necessary for the rx-8 according to mazda.

Elevation8

Vaughn's word with Rotarys has long been respected.

Just because this is a new car, and a new rotary makes you think that following his procedures aren't worthwhile?

Why don't you talk to some people like Marcus Fitzhugh, who has logged over 250,000 miles on his original rotary engine. And still runs it from what I know.

You're basically saying, that by not babying a car, won't effect it's overall life?

Are you crazy or what?

The truth of the matter is, Rotary engines, whether they be Renesis or a 12A, have "strict" guidelines when it comes to breaking them in. Talk to any bigtime, well known tuner and they will tell you what the "proper" break-in procedures are.

Mazda's sales support is crappy. Mazda mechanics historically have not had any knowledge when it comes to tuning a rotary.

A common problem with rotarys is Mazda's lack of, and hinderance of foresight when it comes to proper care of the rotary. This should be evidenced in this thread.

In all honesty, how much experience do you have with Rotarys?

Just because you bought a new car, with a new engine, doesn't mean anything about how much different the car should be cared for.

Follow Vaughn's examples with your car, and you might be shocked as to the lifespan that will increase with your engine.

Disregard them, and be prepared to fork out $5000 for a new motor in the future.

Any Rotary engine, needs to be "properly" broken in. Do you have any clue of what Apex seals are? They need to be properly seated. This is part of the break-in process, and a critical one at that.

Spin9k

Originally, my point was that vaugh was going a little overboard on some of his care recommendation for a normal driver for breakin and care, and that what he said was not supported by Mazda's advice. He moderated that in his reply, and given that, he seems like he is a knowledgeable guy who has read and taked to lots of rotary owners, as he says, and there is much to be learned that way.

However, your statements are a little outrgeous, don't you think? I have not heard of you or vaughn before, but I'm glad he is respected in your circles. I also hadn't heard either that Mazda, their mechanics, and service personnel don't know much about proper care and maintenance of rotary engines, as you indicate.

Now vaughn may be a knowledgeable guy, but I doubt he is better able to advise owners about these things for all rotary engines past and present than Mazda. It just sounds like a stretch to me.

This may not be a surprise, but I'm just not convinced Elevation8. You think I should be listening to 'bigtime, well known tuner" guys more - I don't.

I'm sure you have good intentions to help, however let's agree to disagree. Enjoy your car any way you see fit. I may be wrong, or not. I take care, but not like you advise. That's my perogative.

"We can draw lessons from the past, but we cannot live in it."
Lyndon B. Johnson (1908 - 1973), December 13, 1963

rxeightr

That is the very reason I was there in the service area the whole time my RX-8 was going thru PDI.

I even rode with the tech during his test drive, ensuring the revs did not pass 4000.

BTW, with the exception of changing my oil at 500 miles (will do at 2000 miles), I have followed vaughnc's recommendations. I suggest everyone else does the same.

Boozehound

This is the kind of $hit that dealers put new cars through. Maybe you guys should think of it as something other than a commodity you're marketing - "hey buddy, it's just a car." How about an intricate system of highly complex mechanical and electrical systems using advanced technologies that have been scientifically developed to utilize a controlled combustion to produce useful work.

Do you realize how many HOURS of operation that engine has had on it at 4 miles when you take it to the red? Probably less than 1 hour!!!

So you expect that friction based seals made from engineered metallic compounds should seat properly by exposing them to the explicitly stated MAXIMUM interal velocity that's recommended before damage and failure of certain interal components. Now there's a good idea.

Do have any clue what's involved in metallurgy or what compounds make up those seals, and how they react to high temperatures? Maybe you've done a computational analysis of the friction forces present at the seal/housing interface, given the manufacturing tolerances of an as-built engine with less than 1 hour of operational time. You know what, it's probably even less than 20 minutes of operation.

And your Mazda rep - do you think he was involved with the development of the engine? No. He may have read some notes that were translated from japanese, written originally by a technical writer who works on the project that developed the renesis, but that guy wasn't really involved in seal development now was he? No. There was probably a team of engineers & scientists with tons of experience and education invovled in the development of just the seals. These guys probably ran simulations, design scenarios, calculations, and emperical tests until they got it right. When they were all done with the real work, they made some notes and handed it off to the aforementioned technical writer.

Long story short - Do I know exactly what's required for break-in of the Renesis? No. By and large, do the rest of us? No. So what do we have to go by - the manuals, Mazda's word, and conventional wisdom gained from people who have experience with the engine (long time tuners and real rotorheads). Should we go and redline our engines because the manual didn't say we couldn't? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me (and that's just with some basic materials science classes as a background); I know if I bought a hair dryer and it didn't have a big warning label on it, I probably still wouldn't take it into the shower with me. BTW - have you ever spilled hot coffee on yourself because there wasn't a warning on your cup?

And Seller, your demo that runs like a champ, probably won't be on the roads at 200K, when the babied car is still chugging along fine. And you probably wouldn't be very happy if you had to pay to replace the seals on a Renesis now would you (it costs just a shade more than a ring job ::sarcasm::. Just treat the car like you were making payments on it.

Boozehound

Wow, that was a pretty rough post. I guess I'm still bitter from my salesman trying to get me to take it to the redline on my test drive - "Oh, come on man - I'm pretty sure it would be alright on your test drive..." Mind you that the test drive was on MY car, not someone elses - who knows what went on before I showed up.

But I'm done with them now :D

Elevation8

Well, you do as you wish. No one can stop you.

But why do we study history in the first place, as the quote you mention above? History seems to repeat itself. Sometimes it take thousands of years for mankind to learn how to avoid costly mistakes.

You know, there is a big reason why people generally regard FD RX-7's as "unreliable cars"?

Well it is exactly the reason for why this thread was started.

Dealerships can pretty much do what they please when it comes to cars, sadly.

And so too, can irresponsible owners. I'm not neccesarily calling you an irresponsible owner, however, it is well documented that the first FD owners of RX-7's(the last RX-7's sold here in the U.S.) and the mounting suspicion and evidence these cars weren't properly cared for when broken in.


Do as you wish. Or be nice to the car.

Only in time, you will find out. But when that time comes, please don't complain, and don't spread the word that Mazda S*cks, and the Rotary is crap, when in the end the real answer is a few people didn't treat it right. Because then we'll be saying: "See, told you so..."

And no one enjoys hearing that...

What Vaughn was saying is true. I wish I still had my RX-7 but a few owners really neglected it.

My perogative to your perogative is, don't be cocky and naive about the rotary. Treat him well, and she will reward you.