Arca's Time Attack Build Thread (13b-REW Swap)
03-11-2014, 03:15 PM
#101
Original Turbo 'd Auto !!
Wow, just read the entire thread and pretty awesome journey you've made from the "red rim" days. Cool to see you're still rocking the Rccaz vinyl.
03-15-2014, 11:24 AM
#102
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At this point it's just a plan in my head. I'm going to get everything back together and be using 91 pump gas for now, and after that if it's justified I will go to E85. I will be using Maxima 2-stroke oil for the SOHN and as a premix just in case I decide to convert, it is compatible with gas and E85 (almost all 2-stroke oil and premix gums up when you mix with E85). Having stuff gum up in the fuel system due to incompatible premix is one of the biggest issues, or if you have been premixing for a long time.
Plans would be:
Second OEM bucket/pump assembly in passenger side
In tank pumps feed into 1Gal surge tank in trunk, I can have one fabbed up for cheap.
All fuel lines converted to -06AN.
Surge tank feeds single external Bosch 044.
Fuelab or equivalent filter.
Modified fuel rail to use -06AN fittings, converted to return style system.
AUS Injection has 550cc injectors I could use in place of the yellows, then use two yellows in the primaries where the reds used to be.
Aeromotive adjustable fuel pressure regulator
GM Flex Fuel inline sensor in return line that feeds back into the surge tank.
Zeitronix ethanol gauge that reads off of the flex fuel sensor so I know what the mix is.
Cheap way would be to have 3 maps on the Cobb, one for 91, one for mixed, one for E85 and switch them manually.
Expensive way would be to get an Adaptronic plug and play and take advantage of their flex fuel adjustments so it would make adjustments for ethanol content on its own.
After talking with a couple different people I have decided to skip balancing it. It's more money I don't have to spend right this second and would delay the build even further...
My reasoning is that since I'm going to be re-using all of the parts from my factory original engine, I won't be balancing it. If I were mixing and matching rotating parts then I would probably have it balanced. At 104k miles the e-shaft, rotor bearings and stationary gear bearings look pretty decent, and the rotors weren't banging into anything, so the factory balancing is good enough for me. I suspect that something else in the motor will fail long before balance becomes an issue.
Plans would be:
Second OEM bucket/pump assembly in passenger side
In tank pumps feed into 1Gal surge tank in trunk, I can have one fabbed up for cheap.
All fuel lines converted to -06AN.
Surge tank feeds single external Bosch 044.
Fuelab or equivalent filter.
Modified fuel rail to use -06AN fittings, converted to return style system.
AUS Injection has 550cc injectors I could use in place of the yellows, then use two yellows in the primaries where the reds used to be.
Aeromotive adjustable fuel pressure regulator
GM Flex Fuel inline sensor in return line that feeds back into the surge tank.
Zeitronix ethanol gauge that reads off of the flex fuel sensor so I know what the mix is.
Cheap way would be to have 3 maps on the Cobb, one for 91, one for mixed, one for E85 and switch them manually.
Expensive way would be to get an Adaptronic plug and play and take advantage of their flex fuel adjustments so it would make adjustments for ethanol content on its own.
After talking with a couple different people I have decided to skip balancing it. It's more money I don't have to spend right this second and would delay the build even further...
My reasoning is that since I'm going to be re-using all of the parts from my factory original engine, I won't be balancing it. If I were mixing and matching rotating parts then I would probably have it balanced. At 104k miles the e-shaft, rotor bearings and stationary gear bearings look pretty decent, and the rotors weren't banging into anything, so the factory balancing is good enough for me. I suspect that something else in the motor will fail long before balance becomes an issue.
03-16-2014, 10:29 PM
#103
Pardon my ignorance, and maybe I'm misreading, but why run a parallel fuel system for the E85? Why not just switch maps depending on what's in the primary system? Also, what resources have you been reading on E85 for RX8's? I'm pretty interested in doing this, but it doesn't seem to be a road well traveled.
And yes it's not a very well traveled road but I know some local people that have messed with it just to test it out and the results are encouraging. It's not very viable for a street car because of availability, and also requires fuel system upgrades and tuning, which all contribute to its lack of popularity.
03-20-2014, 10:17 AM
#105
Looks like this thread is about to get interesting...
After looking at the numbers and with some recent happenings I've decided to abandon the current build, I'll do more explaining later but the main point is I can't justify dumping money into rebuilding the Renesis platform since it's such a dead end in terms of power. Part out thread will be coming soon for anyone interested in this huge stockpile of stuff I have.
New Plan: REW swap.
After looking at the numbers and with some recent happenings I've decided to abandon the current build, I'll do more explaining later but the main point is I can't justify dumping money into rebuilding the Renesis platform since it's such a dead end in terms of power. Part out thread will be coming soon for anyone interested in this huge stockpile of stuff I have.
New Plan: REW swap.
03-20-2014, 12:01 PM
#107
I was hoping you were going to say 20b...
03-20-2014, 12:10 PM
#108
After running some numbers on build cost my pockets aren't that deep. Not to mention how much more fab work it is and the overall difficulty of the swap. The REW setup will make more power than a NA 20b, and it pretty much drops right in and has good support, it's relatively well documented, and easy to get parts. Just makes more sense right now.
You have to remember that I'm only 23 and three years ago I didn't even know what a rotary was, and the most work I'd ever done on a car was change the oil and brakes... I don't think my mechanical level of skill would allow me to complete a 20b swap at this time without some serious help.
You have to remember that I'm only 23 and three years ago I didn't even know what a rotary was, and the most work I'd ever done on a car was change the oil and brakes... I don't think my mechanical level of skill would allow me to complete a 20b swap at this time without some serious help.
03-20-2014, 12:48 PM
#109
hmmm...I need more of a list to pick from.
will you be reusing the oil filter adapter thingy? I need a way to supply oil to my turbo
will you be reusing the oil filter adapter thingy? I need a way to supply oil to my turbo
03-20-2014, 04:14 PM
#111
I'm planning on doing a custom vertical dual row, dual pass radiator and V mounting the intercooler with a vent for the intercooler out the hood. Also will be upgrading the oil coolers and adding in one additional oil cooler just to be safe.
03-20-2014, 05:47 PM
#112
Looks like this thread is about to get interesting...
After looking at the numbers and with some recent happenings I've decided to abandon the current build, I'll do more explaining later but the main point is I can't justify dumping money into rebuilding the Renesis platform since it's such a dead end in terms of power. Part out thread will be coming soon for anyone interested in this huge stockpile of stuff I have.
New Plan: REW swap.
After looking at the numbers and with some recent happenings I've decided to abandon the current build, I'll do more explaining later but the main point is I can't justify dumping money into rebuilding the Renesis platform since it's such a dead end in terms of power. Part out thread will be coming soon for anyone interested in this huge stockpile of stuff I have.
New Plan: REW swap.
Yes! Win. Subscribed.
03-21-2014, 09:12 AM
#115
I'mma firin' mah lazor!!!
Been following this one for a while. Dibs on the motor mounts if you part out rene goodies :p Looking forward to seeing where this one goes.
03-21-2014, 09:48 AM
#116
Sending you a PM.
03-22-2014, 02:25 AM
#118
RX8 Performance mount.
I was looking at the KMR mounts but I don't like solid mounts. Also the RX8 Performance mount connects the subframe mount points together like the stock cross bar there. Don't want to sacrifice any rigidity if I don't have to.
I was looking at the KMR mounts but I don't like solid mounts. Also the RX8 Performance mount connects the subframe mount points together like the stock cross bar there. Don't want to sacrifice any rigidity if I don't have to.
03-23-2014, 08:09 PM
#119
Okay so I've kind of been planning out what needs to be done to make this swap happen and the one thing that I'm getting hung up on is the power steering.
Since this is a racecar and I am going to a standalone and rewiring the majority of the car to a switch panel, I will not need to retain any sort of creature comforts.
Things I will be removing or don't need:
The entire gauge cluster (will be using a Race Technologies Dash with GPS and datalogging)
ABS unit
Traction Control
Stability Control
Immobilizer?
I know that the Electric Power Steering Control Module needs two inputs to work, vehicle speed signal and engine speed signal. Unfortunately I believe these are not simple electrical inputs but a CAN based communication system between the EPS Control Module and the PCM.
What do I need to do if the only thing I want to retain in the car is power steering?
Can I just give it the two inputs the EPS module needs from my new ECU?
Can I literally remove every wire going into the PCM besides power, VSS, ESS, and EPS communication if I absolutely need the PCM for this to work?
Does it still work if the PCM is in limp mode?
Any help on this is appreciated. I've also attached a couple diagrams I found.
Since this is a racecar and I am going to a standalone and rewiring the majority of the car to a switch panel, I will not need to retain any sort of creature comforts.
Things I will be removing or don't need:
The entire gauge cluster (will be using a Race Technologies Dash with GPS and datalogging)
ABS unit
Traction Control
Stability Control
Immobilizer?
I know that the Electric Power Steering Control Module needs two inputs to work, vehicle speed signal and engine speed signal. Unfortunately I believe these are not simple electrical inputs but a CAN based communication system between the EPS Control Module and the PCM.
What do I need to do if the only thing I want to retain in the car is power steering?
Can I just give it the two inputs the EPS module needs from my new ECU?
Can I literally remove every wire going into the PCM besides power, VSS, ESS, and EPS communication if I absolutely need the PCM for this to work?
Does it still work if the PCM is in limp mode?
Any help on this is appreciated. I've also attached a couple diagrams I found.
03-23-2014, 08:33 PM
#121
I'm guessing oil pressure and coolant temp are for the dash so I won't be needing those.
Reverse switch for the lights, I'll leave that. I'll probably have the neutral switch going into the new ECU if it's required. Unless the RX-8 PCM needs it for some reason...
EDIT: Also thank you mods for moving the thread and changing the title for me. Much appreciated.
Last edited by Arca_ex; 03-23-2014 at 08:36 PM.
03-23-2014, 09:04 PM
#123
The starter is going to be wired to a momentary push button on the dash.
I'm going to try to snipe this NASCAR unit off eBay. Hopefully it doesn't go over 20 bucks.
I'll do ACC on red, IGN on green and electric water pump on yellow.
I'll also have other switches for fuel pumps, lights, some ecu stuff, dash control, etc. etc.
I'm probably going to end up deleting the stock fuse/relay box and making a harness myself to reduce weight and simplify everything.
03-23-2014, 10:49 PM
#124
Really looking forward to seeing this build come together! An REW or PP 13B (na) are the swaps I'm considering in the future for my race car so this will be interesting I'm sure.
Looking forward to your part-out as well....
Looking forward to your part-out as well....
03-24-2014, 09:18 AM
#125
Registered
Regarding the EPS controller, these guys have a solution for that:
RX8 Steering Controller - CANbusAuto - Home of Automotive CANbus Innovation
So yeah, it appears possible to utilise the existing EPS control module in a standalone manner simply by feeding it the right inputs over CAN bus.
I found about it as a result of a guy here in the UK who converted an RX-8 to electric power. He's using one of their units to retain the stock EPS and dash.
RX8 Steering Controller - CANbusAuto - Home of Automotive CANbus Innovation
So yeah, it appears possible to utilise the existing EPS control module in a standalone manner simply by feeding it the right inputs over CAN bus.
I found about it as a result of a guy here in the UK who converted an RX-8 to electric power. He's using one of their units to retain the stock EPS and dash.