JSH198

Hi everyone,

I will apologize up front for the length of this post but I have a lot to say and a lot of questions to ask. First, let me explain my situation. I have been lurking around this forum for well over a year now. I know exactly which model and features I want: 6-sp MT Winning Blue with grand touring package and navigation system. I would like to add a rear wing spoiler, wheel locks, 6-Cd changer, rotary accents, and cargo tray. However, these options are immaterial because I can add them easily after buying the car.

I've been watching the forum lately about deals on the 2004 models. I searched the inventory page on Mazda's site (before they pulled the 2004s) and found a dealership with two of the exact same cars on the lot: 2004 Winning Blue 6-sp with grand touring, navigation, spare tire, and wheel locks. MSRP on the car is $33,595. I e-mailed the internet manager and he quoted me $27,711. I would definitely not buy the car for that price because the dealer is only dropping about $1800 off of the sticker price (and the rest is coming from rebates from Mazda). I truly believe that I could talk the guy down to somewhere between 25,000 and 26,000 but I haven't tried so far. I just sent the e-mail for the Gerber rebate today and am eligible for the graduation rebate, so there is another $1,000 knocked off (assuming I can get the Gerber rebate without the snail mail flyer).

Although I would love to have an RX-8 now and can afford one, it would make more sense for me to wait until next year to buy. (I currently live in an apartment and can ride the bus to work, but am buying a house in the suburbs next summer and will have to drive then). Nonetheless, I don't want to pass up a chance to get an RX-8 at such a low price. My question to all of you is: should I but an '04 now if I can get it for around $25,000 or should I wait until next year at this time and try to do this with an '05? Also, do you think there will be a good chance that the rebates will be this good next year? I understand that I may save a little bit of money by getting an '04 because of the price increase for the '05s, but I don't think it's that significant of a number to make me buy now. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, one more question, is anyone aware of a Mazda loyalty rebate? I just purchased a Mazda 3 last August and would love to get any extra money from Mazda for coming back to them. Thanks in advance for the replies.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Hmm, where to begin...

You and I find ourselves in a similar situation in that we both have been waiting a while for this car and now that the time has come, I sense a bit of "trigger shyness" <---if that's even a word.

My advice to you is to not wait. Go ahead and buy one now. My reasoning behind that is because EVEN if you were to wait until next year, what will you have truly gained? You will be purchasing a vehicle for a few thousand under sticker which is what you have an opportunity to do now.
Ask yourself: How important is it to me to have an '05? Do you really want the cool flip out key? Are you worried about resale value on the 04 vs 05?

If you can answer "no" to those questions then I believe that you should reward yourself by taking advantage of being able to buy an RX for approx $25,000.

I say lowball that internet manager for $25K... what have you got to lose?

As for the mazda loyalty rebate, I have not heard of one. It would be nice though considering I'm currently driving a Mazda 626.

Hope this helped a bit...

buweet

I had the exact same dilema 10 days ago. I'm now driving a loaded '04 six speed. Go buy it now and enjoy the ride. Offer him 25k flat, no more than 25.5k to close the deal

buweet

One other thing, I would not buy if the serial number is an early build date. Some of the leftover '04's have really early build dates and I would avoid those. I think the latest N flash software corrections are for models with the last 6 digits of the serial number earlier than about 135,000. Check out the technical service bulletins on the rosenthal mazda website.

JSH198

Hi everyone,

I just found out from the dealer that the car in question has 48 miles on it and was built in July of 2003. I'm concerned about buying a car that has been sitting on the dealer's lot for over a year. I think I will just wait and try to find a 2005 next year at this time. Thanks for all the advice.

dwynne

The invoice on that car is about $30,900 . So less $4,000 in dealer money is $26,900. Hold back on that car is about $548, it looks like. So $26,352 is about true dealer cost - baring any other dealer money we don't know about.

Anything less and they are losing money, which is something they don't like to do.

Sure, sometimes dealers will over stuff where it appears they are losing money - but that usually means they are making it back else where - doc fees, jacking up the loan/lease rate (you should always bring your own financing in), or hosing you on the trade. Either that, or there is some other money someplace not published.

You can just "offer him $25,000" for the car. The numbers just don't support it - and I think you will be turned down and he will wait for a more serious offer. If you want it, then try to get it at dead dealer cost including the hold back. That is a pretty low number for a new car.

I personally would not worry about the build date, but I would point out to the dealer the TSB on the battery and get them to warranty you the new, larger battery before you take the car. Get them to give you the latest flash, and you should be fine.

We have no way of knowing what will happen next year, sales could go up or Mazda could cut production so there will be no left over 05s with so much off of invoice. Of, they could bring a turbo 8 this fall and everyone would jump on that and there will be tons of left overs to pick from, not to mention all the trades.

I can tell you this, it is a lot harder to get a house loan than it is to get a car loan. So if you are planning on going from living at home/renting to owning it is probably a lot safer to get the house first - since with a pulse and no late bills or bankruptcy on your record you CAN always get a car loan.

Dennis

PaulieWalnuts

Hard to say but I don't think the incentives next year will be as deep as this year. IMO I think they now have a better handle on projected sales so production will be more closely matched. They may offer low APR or some cash but I don't think it'll be $4K. If the incentives are important to you, I'd buy now.

JSH198

Hey Dwynne,

How did you figure out what the dealer hold-back is on that car? Is there a website that you could direct me to? Thanks.

The reason I was going to offer somewhere around $25,000 is because I get the graduate rebate and the Gerber rebate (hopefully). That would bring the invoice - rebates number down to $25,900. When you subtract the hold-back from this, you end up around $25,350.

Aseras

i'd say the exact opposite is true. Mortgages might be a lot of paperwork but anyone can get a mortgage no matter how bad their credit is.

Aseras

If you have trouble with the gerber rebate I have the contact person in mazda I got to push mine through the dealer here. I can give you the number.

dwynne

It is posted on Edmunds and other places - 2% of base MSRP (base = car w/o the options). Some are x% of total MSRP (car and factory options). So it is not 2% of MSRP, but 2% of the cost of the base care + the destination (I think that is included).

Hope all you want, but most dealers do need to not lose money on transactions. Sometimes they do, but like I said there would be a trade or some secret deal that actually let them make a profit or break even.

Dennis

dwynne

How many have you qualified for? Sure it is a SAFER loan than a car - but they look at amount you owe VS income, etc . Most of the time with a car they just don't care. In fact, the dealer can (for a high enough rate) get about anyone financed. When I have been involved in selling some houses it was a LOT harder to get folks qualified for the home loan.

Dennis

Aseras

maybe for a conventional mortgage but in the last 5 years now it's so easy they are almost giving mortgages away like candy. There's plenty of loans and mortgatges that if you shop around you can get anything. It nmight be a interest only balloon note from hell but you could do it.

JSH198

While we are on the topics of mortgages, do you think it would be stupid for me to buy an 8 before I try to qualify for a mortgage? As far as I can tell from all of the mortgage qualification calculators on real estate websites, I will qualify for a much larger mortgage than I need even with the RX-8 payments included in my monthly bills. Just wondering whether it looks bad to buy a $30,000 dollar car a few months before trying to get a mortgage.

dwynne

That is what I was saying. On a car loan it is "does it look like he can pay for it?" with a house it is "how much does he take home?, how much are all his bills?, how much does he owe?". You payment (including the new mortage) to income ratio can't be above a certain percent or you don't get the loan. For the car, they usually don't care nearly as much - and not on a $27-30k car if you make good money.

Only you know your financial situation - if you have a long history of good credit and don't owe any money and make good money then you could probably qualify the mortgage you want with or without the car note. If it is iffy - too many other bills, too little extra income, not a long credit history, etc then I would get the mortgage first - then the car.

Dennis

Aseras

in general recent opening of tradelines( new credit accounts ) and inquiries will hurt your credit, but not enough to hurt you for a mortgage. It might limit your options as to what kind of mortgage you qualify for ( you might need a large down or pmi or maybe a certain amount in escrow or higher interest.) but if you have any income you can get a mortgage on anything. mortgages are easy to get they are just an obstacle course and tit for tat form fillings.

i say do whatever you want, but if you REALLY want a particular home, get it first, then pick up a car. carts grow on trees.. homes are unique and it's always location location location. you know.

dwynne

That is my point.

The mortage banks have strict income rules:

Your house expense (mortgage and escrow) should not exceed 25-28% of your gross monthly income. Buying the 8 now will not change this.

Your total long term debt (anything that will no be paid of in 6-10 months) should not exceed 33-36% of your gross income. Even if you have no other debt, adding the RX-8 before getting the mortgage just limited how much they will lend you. Now given enough income and little other debt, you still might get the level and price of home you desire - but for a lot of folks it would prevent them from doing so.

No car loan bank has EVER been this strict in granting a car loan. So get the house you want - no long-term debt means max house, then get the car.

Dennis