Rexy84

Hey all... can anyone tell me if they have experience with the various thermostat options for our cars (2004 6spd) I understand the stock Tstat doesn’t open as early as the Mishimoto and or Remedy. However between the Mishimoto and the Remedy, how do they differ? I can get the Mishimoto for around $30 cheaper than the Remedy. It’s not about the cost however, it’s more I’m looking for a reason to get the Remedy over the Mishimoto. Any insight is appreciated.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

What is your logic for running a lower temp thermostat?

Rexy84

With all due respect, . I don’t see any “logic” in answering my question with a question. The benefits of a lower temp thermostat are obvious and rather self explanatory. If you have some insight in comparison of Mishimoto v Remedy I’d appreciate it.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

The reason I asked is that if there isn't a specific reason for doing it it doesn't accomplish anything except forcing the engine to run at a temp that is lower than designed for.

If you are looking for increased cooling capacity it doesn't do this.... if you want to do this.... go to a better larger capacity radiator

As for experience.... I have used both I had one of the original Remedy ones in a Renesis and currently have a Mishimoto in a REW

Rexy84

I didn’t mean to come off as a dick, I just assume everyone is going to be rude before helpful.

I totally understand what a lower temp thermostat will accomplish. I just want to know if you or anyone else has a actual opinion for or against Mishimoto or Remedy? Or do you find them identical?

My thermostat is bad. I have a new radiator already. New silicone coolant hoses. I’m replacing the Tstat with a better one and my only reasoning really is best to quote Paul from Mazmart.

”The purpose of this thermostat is primarily to change the range of the 'Gatekeeper'. That's basically what your thermostat does; when the set temperatures are achieved the gatekeeper re-directs the flow of water (Or whatever liquid heat transferring agent) from the by-pass (Where it keeps circulating in the block avoiding the radiator) to the radiator for exposure to air, where it is able to ditch some of it's unwanted heat.




I refer to it as the gatekeeper because: It doesn't matter how good our water pump is or how good your radiator is if this control mechanism keeps trying to achieve 200 plus degF . If the gatekeeper sees 184 deg it starts going "Whoa, hold up, things are getting to cool around here!" and starts to close the radiator passage while opening the bypass.




Our unit is intended to begin opening at 169 degF and be full open at least 10 deg lower than stock. Our unit has a better transition as well in terms of how much area is open when the bypass is completely closed. The stock version is less than optimal in this regard.




Ultimately, the thermostat cannot stop a catastrophic overheat nor can it make up for other deficiencies (Bad or in-efficient water pump, poorly sealing cap,wrong cap pressure, low fluid levels, improper ccolant to water ratios, in-sufficient radiator surface area exposure, inop cooling fan/s etc) but it's a very important piece in the puzzle of creating a better cooling environment. On a really hot day if there is the potential for your cooling capabilities to be maxed out, then a lower range thermostat will delay that possibility. Essentially it is helping to maximize the effectiveness of other positive things you may do or have done; like a better water pump, a better radiator, better airflow, modified fan temps etc.




It's all synergy folks .”

NotAPreppie

Answer a question with a question is a common sign that the responder is trying to figure out how to best help you out. In some cases, answering your question directly will not be in your best interests.

In this case, 99.999% of people will not be helped by a lower temp thermostat. So, Dan was trying to figure out what your actual needs are in order to give you the best advice.

That said, if you don't actually want useful advice, then by all means, buy either one because neither are likely to have any real-world benefits.

Edit: looks like we posted at the same time.
To reply to your post:
Well, of course they're going to say their product solves a problem; they want you to buy it.

The fact is that, while everything they say is true, the analysis is flawed.

There's nothing wrong with running 200F coolant temperature. Hell, there's nothing wrong with 210F temps. 220 is where you start to worry.


Once you get to within 80% of the cooling capacity of the system, it doesn't matter if your thermostat opens at 165, 175, or 180 (for the record, my OEM tstat opens at 175). Why? Because opening early doesn't magically cause it to flow more coolant after it's fully opened up.

To put it another way, if you were going to hit 200F with the OEM thermostat, you're going to hit 200F with one that opens earlier. Why? Because you're already putting out more heat than the radiator can reject at a given flow rate. This won't be changed by opening earlier.

The only way to improve this situation is upgrade the radiator's ability to reject heat (airflow and surface area) or increase the amount of flow through the radiator (upgraded water pump).

Incidentally, the Mazmart REmedy pump moves less water for a given RPM than the OEM pump.

Rexy84

You are just assuming I don’t already know what I’m doing or talking about. I asked a very specific question that isn’t even relative to any other talking point. My need or want to know a personal comparison on 2 products has no bearing on why the product will be used. The question is does Mishimoto or Remedy outperform or have any benefit over 1 another.

i can ask what you like, BMW or Mercedes without you needing to know why i want to drive a car

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

As far as I have seen they both work. I haven't had issues with either of them.

I personally would buy the Remedy one.... but it is because Paul is a stand up guy and giving him the business is worth it, more so than I have had an issue with the Mishimoto unit. The reason I currently have a Mishimoto is that it was given to me for free.... so kinda hard to beat the price

I tend to leave the dick out of my posts if I can. That's one of the problems being a Moderator. You have to hold yourself to a higher standard than before.

There are a lot of days that is extremely difficult....as there can be a lot of "stupid" going on 🙄

NotAPreppie

See above for my comments (edited while you posted).

Neither will work better or worse than each other (or OEM). Pick one and run with it safe in the knowledge that the placebo affect is alive and well.

Rexy84

thank you very much.

UnknownJinX

RIWWP's newbie thread is a good place to start, but do keep in mind that some info can be outdated(it was written quite a while ago) and some info isn't exactly correct anymore.

I have read somewhere that one benefit of the Remedy thermostat is that if it fails, it defaults to open rather than defaults to closed like the OEM. Maybe someone can confirm this?

NotAPreppie

It will depend on the failure mode.

At their hearts, all RX-8 thermostats are just wax motors. The wax has a large thermal expansion coefficient so, as it heats up, it expands. This effectively actuates a valve that diverts the coolant through a different path. If the failure mode is that the wax somehow leaks out instead of pushing the cylinder out, the thermostat will fail closed. On the other hand, if the spring that helps shepherd the cylinder back in as the wax contracts fails, it may fail open.

There are other failure modes that may give different results (gasket failure may leave it partially open or partially closed all the time, etc).

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I admire your restraint!

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

LOL.... I try. Sometimes it leaks out and I have to go back and edit after.

dafish

My sincere apologies gentlemen, for being "that guy". My only excuse is this thread, and the question asked by the OP, is of some interest to me.

So, now that some time has passed, what say you about the Mishimoto T-stat and it's reliability? I ask as I've a need for it and because Amazon shows a 25% failure rate. Granted it's the internet, but 25%?

OP:
Should you still be around, allow me to suggest you look hard at using a surfactant. My research took me to Rislone' Hy-per Cool, but you may prefer another brand. I'd probably avoid Water Wetter, but ymmv. It won't show any coolant actual temperature change (that's not possible via a surfactant), but it will drop cylinder head temps and temps in the radiator tank, so you receive a bit more cooling head-room and some reduced knock Not that you need either, but perhaps.

Those that may elect to help:
I get it. No value on a stock engine. On the other hand I also know that in a dyno room doing custom tuning the anti-knock benefits that tend to come as a result of lower coolant temps are beneficial in allowing more more timing, less fueling, and if one is using FI, more boost. Let me also disclose I'm not working on a RX-8, but it happens the RX-8 thermostat happens to be what fits the application. Ergo here I am, bothering you guys.

None of that is to say I have even a passing clue, but the thread suggests an explanation is in order as to why I'm asking, so I've played ball.

This may be of some interest as well.
https://www.sae.org/publications/tec.../2010-01-0802/

Back on point:
Anybody with experience on the Mishimoto T-stat? Any reliability comments?

My sincere thanks for anybody that helps!

-d

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

the thread that just keeps on giving …

dafish

Anybody with any experience with these thermostats care to comment on their reliability?

Or perhaps know where a remedy thermostat is to be found?

TIA,

-d

dafish

Short of Teams non-answer, I'm hearing crickets. For the next guy:

Thread searching on this forum and Amazon's feedback are negative re: Mishimoto's stat. A discussion w/Mishimoto's customer service team show 880 orders to date and 8 warranty claims. Order size unknown, but presumable not all are gty 1 order. Net: Something like a 1% or lower failure rate being reported. Assuming 1 in 7 file a warranty claim suggests we're seeing roughly double the typical 3% mfg failure rate. Where lies the truth? Dunno.

Mazmart is on back order, but the RX-8 unit is non RX-8 OEM unit custom modified. My sense is this is a more reliable unit, although it's bottom bypass and basket aren't quite identical to the factory RX-8. Seems to work for the RX-8 in any event. This would be choice personally.

Tangentially, Motorad 2028-170 appears close. It does seem to be 2mm wider at the top flange, so may or may not fit.

Best of luck to others looking.

-d

Rattlehead

Oem t-stat + cooling fan kit👍
keeps my car under 200°F

tr1ple

I use a Mishimot thermostat + a reflashed ecu to lower the main fans turn on temp
it works as expected nothink specal aboult it just a lower opening temp

my reason for using it is mazda has worked hard to get better emmissions and lower fuel usage but i feel this was at the cost of long term engine life, also premix for the same reason

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

my previous response is only a non-answer for the people who didn’t bother to read all the previous replies. I don’t need to repeat what already was said correctly by other members here.

slipshoddon

I would tend to agree with you as this forum has a high number of rude and condecending comments. Can't ever seem to get a straight answer

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

you’re likely too sensitive to handle a straight answer but if you’re feeling especially froggy about taking a chance, then try sending me a pm.

apex1

I have a 170 stat from mazmart and it works fine. However it does nothing for excess cooling. Car still runs around 190-210 most of the time. On crisp days going down hill it will drop to 170, but there is no benefit.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

^^because pretty much nobody on here truly understands what the real issues are and addresses them accordingly. They just throw parts/software changes at it addressing the symptoms rather than curing the actual causes that then still manifests with the new parts as well. Just as stated about the t-stat in the post above.
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