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Category: Brakes Price: $1 Private or Vendor Listing: Private Listing Part Fits (you may select multiples): Others, Series I, Series II Location (US State/Canada/Int): CA Item Condition: Used
Looking for a used or new rear rotors from the TCE Performance kit. Specifically the rear rotor hats.
Last edited by speed7; 07-14-2022 at 04:16 PM.
Reason: Location
@TeamRX8 Thx for the offer.. Yeah the part for the top hat is actually discontinued. Even Todd at TCE can't get it anymore. This is why I'm looking for a used set. Willwood has been no help at all with this project. I've been bugging them for over 2 years and they won't budge. I didn't know about the TCE option till only a few days ago. I liked the lighter rotor with chance of a little more torque to help slow the rear disks. And the Wilwood kit for the Miata is a no go simply because you lose the parking brake.. it's there only for show. Regardless of what option I go with.. I want to ditch a few pounds of unsprung weight in the rear. The target is around 2-3lbs per rear corner if possible.
Searching around I found your fliying miata 1 off kit, some options from Project Mu, Racing Break (who've I've not reached out to yet), the Miata Willwood kit, and now the TCE kit.
And to be honest, the braking power of the OEM calipers is great.. so the TCE kit felt like the best of both worlds. OEM functionality, shed a few lbs, keep the parking brake, and a little bit more braking force thx to moving the caliper outwards a little bit.
I'm seriously behind on this project and wish I could go back in time and buy a kit new.
so you just want a 2-pc hat & disc for replacing the OE rotors? You can use an OE rotor for the dimensions then.
Pretty sure RacingBrake dropped the rear rotor kit. I have a pair of the original set, but they changed the disc later and no longer offer replacements. Their discs are unique and I’m stuck once they wear out because nobody offers them with the same mount configuration.
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Yeah pretty much.. that's goal #2 if I can't get the Wilwood top hat for the TCE kit. Your comment also brings up another worry.. I know the TCE kit also has a custom rotor. Ideally I'd like to have this kit use readily available parts. So I don't get into a situation where the rotors are no longer available.
And in all seriousness, if Wilwood would just make a kit for our car, this wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately the demand for this isn't high enough to warrant their attention.
well when you decide to have a more reasonable expectation then you can usually just start with a 12 OD x 0.750 thick disc and have it milled/ground to 11.92 OD (0.040 radius cut) x 0.720 thick (0.015 per side). Assuming you have to meet the OE dimensions minimum for class rules. Then you just need the hats.
If youre lucky there will be something close to that which might only need to be milled some for the correct centerline placement and center hole dimension. Which pretty much anybody can do in a suitably sized lathe. Then some Ti hardware and youre set, but it wont likely be a floating type though. Try to remember that 5x114.3 = 5x4.5 which is fairly common. I can take a look at it for you if you like.
otherwise Coleman Racing Products can most likely custom make a pair for you as well.
If you can't find any used kit available, I think you'd be better off getting ahold of an aftermarket BB Kit company (Ceika, R-Sport, Roloface, etc) to see what is the best they can do for you. They have the machinery all setup for any variation of a top hat. You'd likely be paying a price for it obviously though if it seems worth it to you.
pretty sure Ceika used to have the rear 2-pc rotors listed as standard, but no more
read enough bad reviews and horror stories to steer clear from them though.
the obvious solution to the custom rotor situation is to order a spare pair for the shelf, then when they go on order a replacement pair to restock the shelf. Thats just Maintenance 101 for anything; racing or otherwise.
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Agreed, not too keen on Ceika.. and with a braking system I need to really trust that product.
@TeamRX8 This is for a daily driver not a class specific thing. At most a spirited HPDE event. My track car I'm fine with OE calipers and rotors, and that fits within NASA rules. This project is about improving the Rx8 as if it were and OEM option from Mazda itself. That's why I was looking at the TCE kit.. fit within my criteria for this project.. I was told about Coleman Racing.. and I'll probably reach out to them next.
Last edited by speed7; 07-19-2022 at 01:38 PM.
Reason: grammar
Agreed, not too keen on Ceika.. and with a braking system I need to really trust that product.
@TeamRX8 This is for a daily driver not a class specific thing. At most a spirited HPDE event. My track car I'm fine with OE calipers and rotors, and that fits within NASA rules. This project is about improving the Rx8 as if it were and OEM option from Mazda itself. That's why I was looking at the TCE kit.. fit within my criteria for this project.. I was told about Coleman Racing.. and I'll probably reach out to them next.
I've reached out to roloface and their customer service is super easy going. May give them a shot. As well as R-concepts.
I know there is a company that makes more affordable 350z and 370z 2 piece rotors. I think they might be a great option to contact as well. Z1 Motorsports is the name I think.
Hey it sounds to me like you're trying to do what I did with my Speed3 by using a caliper bracket 'exender' along with a rotor + pad upgrade for a bit more performance. Lucky for Speed3's, the mazda5 shares the same rear caliper + pads so it turns out that all you needed were the new rotors and that mazda5 caliper bracket. I'm feeling like this is similar to what was offered in the 'TCE' kit you're searching for. Surprising there isn't something more readily available, or at least the access to parts to make your own. Bummer to hear it's been such a hassle.
I'd imagine you should be more than able to find a competent shop in your area to help you complete your goal. Otherwise I suppose you're stuck with the usual jdm options, etc but I will say that they aren't typically a weight reduction. Even still, for a build as you describe, a nice 2-piece is well worth it imo.
Willwood sells a 12.88" rear kit with a separate mechanical ebrake (pn:140-15034) available through a few vendors like Goodwin.
For the DIY route:
I've done a little digging for off the shelf components that would work since I'm in the process of making a front and rear bbk using OEM parts for my RX8.
I've just started on the rear, but the plan is to use the stock RX8 caliper and 13-14 Mustang GT500 350x19 rear rotors. The stock RX8 rear rotor is 301x18.2 so the stock caliper should have enough width to fit over the GT500 rotor.
Sake Bomb uses a 20mm thick rotor on the S2000 rear BBK which uses the Stock RX8 rear caliper, and in a thread on the S2k forums SBG stated that the RX8 rear caliper will accept a 20mm thick rotor. I haven't confirmed it myself, but I'd say up to 20mm are likely to fit
The rotor height of the GT500 is 35mm and the RX8 is 44.2mm which offsets the the rotor face centerline ~9.2mm outboard which allows room for a simple caliper adapter using 3/8"(9.53mm) flat plate. This solution would be limited by wheel to caliper clearance.
For the front I'm using 17-21 Honda CTR calipers with 07-14 Mustang GT 355x32 rotors. I've finished the engineering and done the test fit with 3D printed adapters, just need to send the files off to get them cut out of steel.
For my configuration the brake bias is shifted ~.5% rearward
If 350mm is too big for you, the 17-20 Tesla Model 3 rear 335x20 could work but will require a bit more effort as the rotor height is 46.8mm and a more complicated bracket would be needed to get the right spacing.
If a .81" (20.5mm) rotor will fit the RX8 caliper that opens a lot of options to make a two piece rotor from Wilwood components.
If you want to go further down the rabbit hole, there are other OEM calipers with cable ebrakes that will work with a custom adapter. There are several options that will take 24mm thick rotors and many of those are aluminum body instead of cast iron if you want to offset the weight of the larger rotor. You could run a front RX8 323x24 rotor in the rear using either a cheaper single piece or two piece for a little less weight.
Hey it sounds to me like you're trying to do what I did with my Speed3 by using a caliper bracket 'exender' along with a rotor + pad upgrade for a bit more performance. Lucky for Speed3's, the mazda5 shares the same rear caliper + pads so it turns out that all you needed were the new rotors and that mazda5 caliper bracket. I'm feeling like this is similar to what was offered in the 'TCE' kit you're searching for. Surprising there isn't something more readily available, or at least the access to parts to make your own. Bummer to hear it's been such a hassle.
I'd imagine you should be more than able to find a competent shop in your area to help you complete your goal. Otherwise I suppose you're stuck with the usual jdm options, etc but I will say that they aren't typically a weight reduction. Even still, for a build as you describe, a nice 2-piece is well worth it imo.
Hope this was helpful
(extended bracket pic for reference only)
Yeah you've hit it on the head exactly what I'm attempting to do. Yeah if I go the complete custom route.. I know there are a few shops in the San Diego area that could do it.. it's just a matter if I have the time or not is also the problem.
Originally Posted by Stubbs
Willwood sells a 12.88" rear kit with a separate mechanical ebrake (pn:140-15034) available through a few vendors like Goodwin.
For the DIY route:
I've done a little digging for off the shelf components that would work since I'm in the process of making a front and rear bbk using OEM parts for my RX8.
I've just started on the rear, but the plan is to use the stock RX8 caliper and 13-14 Mustang GT500 350x19 rear rotors. The stock RX8 rear rotor is 301x18.2 so the stock caliper should have enough width to fit over the GT500 rotor.
Sake Bomb uses a 20mm thick rotor on the S2000 rear BBK which uses the Stock RX8 rear caliper, and in a thread on the S2k forums SBG stated that the RX8 rear caliper will accept a 20mm thick rotor. I haven't confirmed it myself, but I'd say up to 20mm are likely to fit
The rotor height of the GT500 is 35mm and the RX8 is 44.2mm which offsets the the rotor face centerline ~9.2mm outboard which allows room for a simple caliper adapter using 3/8"(9.53mm) flat plate. This solution would be limited by wheel to caliper clearance.
For the front I'm using 17-21 Honda CTR calipers with 07-14 Mustang GT 355x32 rotors. I've finished the engineering and done the test fit with 3D printed adapters, just need to send the files off to get them cut out of steel.
For my configuration the brake bias is shifted ~.5% rearward
If 350mm is too big for you, the 17-20 Tesla Model 3 rear 335x20 could work but will require a bit more effort as the rotor height is 46.8mm and a more complicated bracket would be needed to get the right spacing.
If a .81" (20.5mm) rotor will fit the RX8 caliper that opens a lot of options to make a two piece rotor from Wilwood components.
If you want to go further down the rabbit hole, there are other OEM calipers with cable ebrakes that will work with a custom adapter. There are several options that will take 24mm thick rotors and many of those are aluminum body instead of cast iron if you want to offset the weight of the larger rotor. You could run a front RX8 323x24 rotor in the rear using either a cheaper single piece or two piece for a little less weight.
The problem with the Miata Wilwood kit is the ebrake solution they have seems to barely hold a Miata on a slight grade. For a daily use parking brake.. that will not suffice. Thanks for the other points of info.. that's making me think of a few other options.. or at least got me thinking about it in another way.
From my understanding the complaints about the parking brake being too weak comes from the lever style parking brake used in the Flyin' Miata kit:
The kit sold by Goodwin uses an auxiliary mechanical parking brake that should be more effective:
Probably worth it to reach out to Goodwin to get their opinion on how effective it is. If it is effective it'll save you the time and effort of creating a one-off solution.
it goes against what hes trying to accomplish though, because that Wilwood kit adds weight rather than reducing it. No big deal when you have a 450+ ft-lbs and 550+ whp V8 engine.
There are aluminum calipers with e-brake capability, mostly from EU sources. I spent way too many hours researching all that.
The Flyin Miata rear brake kit also has less piston area than OE, but I addressed this on my setup by converting my RacingBrake front kit from the Sport Suspension 323mm disc diameter to the Standard Suspension 303mm diameter. With the reduced weight of my RX8 in DSP trim, the thought process was that there is braking capacity to sacrifice for the combined weight and inertial mass reduction gains. The goal is to get it to 2600 lbs less driver; probably cant quite get there, but possibly within 20 lbs or so of that.
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From what I was reading the Wilwood kit has the issue with the parking brake. The kit is lighter than OEM and would accomplish my goal.. in fact this was the original kit I was considering. That was until I read reviews on the parking break not actually doing much when in use. This is why I was in favor of the TCE option.. best of both worlds. Slightly lighter rotor, no change to the rear caliper, and slightly increased braking torque since it's moved outwards.
I'm going to figure this out eventually.. but it will probably be a custom 1 off kit I design with the help of a machine shop. I'll reach out to TCE next week and see how they are getting along with the different top hat he sourced. He didn't sound super confident he could recreate the rear caliper kit again.
Thx for the info everyone.. there was some new things I learned.. much of it I had gathered doing my own research. When I do have a solution, I'll be sure to share it with everyone.
I question the weight; the larger diameter and thicker brake disc alone is 10.2 lbs compared to 12.5 lbs for a Mazda OE all steel rotor disc and hub. By the time you add an alloy hat & hardware it will be close to the same weight; 12 lbs would be my estimate, but likely higher MOI than OE. The alloy center hub helps the sprung weight, but does little for MOI and now youre spinning a thicker, larger radius disc.
Though the kit changes to alloy calipers, it also has an additional caliper and brake pad set along with an extended mounting bracket for the separate parking brake. I always assumed the bracket is steel given the configuration, but could be wrong on this point. However, the mechanical parking brake with pads is listed as 3.3 lbs plus some bolts. The main caliper is listed as 3.6 lbs plus pads and everything else listed below. The OE rear caliper assembly with mount, pads, bolts etc are 9 lbs each.
If the Wilwood MX5 BBK is lighter it cant be by much. Ive never seen the detailed weight for this particular kit though. If Im wrong on claiming its heavier then any detailed info you can provide to correct my error is appreciated.
You can get a breakdown of weights on the wilwood site actually. And you're right.. I wasn't taking into consideration the top hat. All together it's 12 lbs exactly. Which is the same weight as the OEM rotor. I think I'm going to shelve this idea for now.
yes; ghat’s where I pulled all those various weights from. I’ve never seen an actual total weight for the kit though. The full OE rear brake assembly weight is 21.5 lbs total per side as I recall.
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If you are looking to save weight, then going with a larger two piece rotor and the stock caliper will send you in the wrong direction.
The factory rotor, caliper and pads end up being ~21.5lbs per side(btw all my weights listed are from data I tracked down online so assume an error of +/-1lb.)
The Goodwin kit ends up being about the same weight as the stock rotor and caliper at ~21.3lbs per side.
The Wilwood combo that the stock caliper will fit over is a 160-12469 12.88x.75" ring with a 170-6126 hat (the rest of the .75" rotors are too small in diameter.) The assembled rotor by itself ends up being ~.5lbs lighter, but if you add in the weight of the adapter, stock caliper, and pads you're around 21.9lbs per side. Cheaper than the Goodwin kit, but weight is marginally worse than stock.
There are some options with the .81" thick rotor that could save some weight. If the stock caliper won't fit over a .81" thick disc, you could remove the anti-squeal shims and/or shave each pad by ~.3mm any time you install new ones.
Biggest weight savings would be a 160-13373 11.75"x.81" ring and 170-10040 hat. That'd end up saving ~5.8lbs per side; a more standard ring like a 160-5841 will be ~2.7lbs saved per side. Downside would be you'll likely have ~1mm pad overhang on the top of the rotor. But if you're hunting weight first and foremost that'd be the the biggest bang for the buck.
All the part numbers above are derived from quick measurements so do your own measurement to confirm the needed dimensions.
with the reduced piston area and lower vehicle weight I was comfortable having the 12.19 dia x 0.81 thick rotor machined to 11.90 OD and ground on the sides to the OE 0.71 wide spec (minimum rules requirement). My kit deviates from the std Flyin Miata MX5 kit because they use a thinner solid rear rotor disc. So I have the calipers for the 0.81 rotor width, but as you noted used Ti brake pad shim plates to account for the thinner rotor difference.
Pretty much did the same thing with a 12.19 OD x 1.00 wide disc in the front down to the 11.90 OD x 24mm wide Standard suspension OE spec and modifying the RacingBrake front caliper adapter to match the smaller OD. The result in the end is 13 lbs per front corner drop and 9 lbs per rear corner drop, or 44 lbs total (from Mazda OE). All of which is unsprung weight and lower MOI, but the caveat being also lower braking capacity. Im only focusing on sub-90 mph speeds though with reduced chassis weight.
Prior to this there was way sufficient braking capacity unless I just waited too late with too much speed. So banking on there being enough capacity still even if it means eating up pads and rotors over the course of time. Thats what purpose they serve imo.
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07-14-2022, 03:59 PM
TCE Performance Rear Brake Kit
then you can usually just start with a 12 OD x 0.750 thick disc and have it milled/ground to 11.92 OD (0.040 radius cut) x 0.720 thick (0.015 per side). Assuming you have to meet the OE dimensions minimum for class rules. Then you just need the hats.
