MI_FamilyMan

I thought that was an S4 w/the 4.2 V-8? And not a RS6? If it isn't a S4, I'm sure that's what he meant to put up there...

VikingDJ

Will the srt-4 bashing ever stop? It's a good car for the money, and there's nothing wrong with sacrificing looks and refinement, for pure power and performance. Sure it's a Neon, but I I can just as easily say the mazda 3 is just a cheap rx8, so is mazda 6, ect ect. Hell I drove a mazda 6 and it looked way too similiar, and the first thing I said, is " it's an rx8 wanna be. Then I stopped myself and said "THAT"S JUST WRONG" I guess we have power envy because when you line up an rx8 vs srt-4, it will absolutely trounce us. Then the rx8 fanbois and owners talk about how ugly it is, and it's just a neon. Please people, give it a rest. If you wanna talk smack about the car, at least have the decency to challenge one with your rx8, and put your money where your mouth is. Sorry, I had to vent, this bashing is getting old, and is so unjustified. However, I'm sure on the other forums they are ripping the rx8 just as badly, so it's something that can't be stopped, because these forums are filled with young arrogant people. I have a great deal of respect for the srt, and even in my STI, I'll be very weery of one of them. They pack just as much whp as me, and I might even get beaten on a highway roll. I'm not going to mock a car that can potentially wipe me off the road, and eat me for lunch, and neither should you. If you dont like Neons, fine, but if you feel the need to bash it, just for your own insecurity about the rx8, then carry on, and make yourself feel better. Good day!!

bmcc49er

I have read alot on here that is not bashing. Its not ok to give your opinion on the car overall? Anyone that bought an 8 could afford the SRT. Its not like they're jealous of it when they could have bought it and saved some dough. Sounds like you have a problem with people not liking the overall package of the SRT. How can you have power envy when you could buy either one and chose the one that is by far the better car overall?

Riggs

VikingDJ, I agree with your comments on the SRT4 bashing and I respect it's price to performance ratio, and overall ability. Even though it's not my cup of tea.

But I have to argue this point. As a fellow 2005 STi owner, there is no way any stock SRT4 can match a stock STi?

I have put 2 to 3 car lengths on many a teenager challenging me (which is getting very annoying but I just can't back down, which is shameful as I am a 30 y.o. professional adult) in his new SRT4, both from a standstill and rolling start.

A 5.4 - 5.7 sec car is no match for a 4.6 - 4.8 sec car, stock for stock.

And an SRT4, as good a car as it is, is NO match for an STi - Unless the STi driver skips a gear.

VikingDJ

Well, the IT"S STILL A NEON" phrase says it all. I agree there is constructive criticism on these threads, but the JUST A NEON, and IT"S UGLY AND CHEAP is a pure bash plain and simple. I think those kinds of opinions need to be kept to yourself, but thats just my opinion. Believe me I've seen plenty of bashing on the RX8, and being an rx8 owner it kind of amuses me, but at same time I don't understand the lack of respect for other cars. Our car gets ripped just as hard if not harder then even an srt-4. I guess it's just me, but many times the criticism I see on this board is just stupid trash talking, rather then constructive criticism. It happens to every car, and every site is bias. Maybe if all the criticism was more intelligent and informative it wouldn't bother me. I'm very objective, and I personally would never buy a Neon because it lacks what I need out of a car, but I can't for the life of me criticize it, because you get what you pay for, and every car is built for different individuals.

VikingDJ

Well, you may be right, and I hope you are. I'm just going by dyno numbers and trap speeds. SRT is ligher, pushes out almost as much WHP, and on paper it has more power form rolling start. I'm not talking off the line. I'm talking lining up these cars evenly at 60mph on highway and letting them go. I believe the srt-4 will match the STI, and maybe even pull on it. Again, I am only going on dyno charts, and haven't raced an srt. Off the line of course the srt is no match, but form what I have read, that thing is a beast once you are moving, and having just as much whp and being a few hundred pounds lighter, tells me the STI has it's hands full. Maybe someone could clarify this for me, and disprove me. I'd love to be proven wrong on the WHP and trap speeds I have seen first hand.

Steiner

Yeah, it was supposed to be a shot of the AWD Audi S4 w/the new 4.2L V8. My sister in law has a convertible and that thing is amazing - overpriced, but amazing. Is the RS6 even sold in the USDM? The only shots I've seen of it were station wagons posted on a European car forum.

As far as STi vs. SRT-4...once you throw out traction issues it's pretty even in a straight line. That's throwing out one of the STi's biggest advantages of course though. Power to weight ratio is nearly identical as is displacment and power curve. The main differences are that the 2.5L turbo in the STi has a higher redline, but the 2.4L turbo in the SRT-4 has a bigger stroke and therefore slightly more torque. Stock for stock the STi should pull until about 80mph where the SRT-4 starts to catch up due to taller gearing and less parisitic drivetrain loss. Most of us will never see these kind of speeds, but it takes the STi about 50 seconds to see 150mph. It takes the SRT-4 about 45 seconds to see 150mph.

As far as 1/4 mile times...VikingGJ you're correct in comparing traps speeds in order to get the best gauge of engine power. The numbers are a little tricky though depending where you live. In CA on crappy 91 octane the '04 and '05 STi barely crack 100mph in the 1320. The SRT-4 still sees 102mph though on the same gas. However in the other 49 states using 93 octane the STi ('04 and '05) have no trouble seeing 101-102mph trap speeds...usually pulling of 13.2-13.5 times slips...while the SRT-4 still runs the same trap speeds on 93 octane at it does on 91 octane. It doesn't make sense at first glance, but Dodge engineered their ECU a little differently than Subura engineered theirs. Ask any CA Subaru owner what their biggest performance complaints are and the schizophrenic ECU will always be near the top. On the same token the ECU in the SRT-4 has a torque target as opposed to a horsepower target...which has far less to do with high RPM's and therefore the inevitable high rev knock on low octane gas.

At least this is my understanding of it after 2 years of SRT-4 research and STi research. Ironically I'm probably buying an Evo 8 next week. Somebody decided to buy my SRT-4 from me.

Steiner

Oh it's a killer car alright, but it's not a compact. If I was gonna open it up to all shapes and sizes of car we'd be here posting pictures until Christmas...of '07, :D

khtm

Give me a break. Your argument has a huge flaw...if RX-8 owners were all about speed (which most of us obviously aren't), why the heck would we spend twice as much $ as an SRT-4 for a car that's not nearly as powerful? For the same $ we could have gotten a mustang and been like every other ******* on the road. Looks go a long, long way ya know

Ike

Whoops, I think you're right. My statement still stands though.

Ike

By most accounts on the WRX boards the STi pulls slightly on the SRT-4, the trap speeds on ideal runs are nearly identical with 93 octane, but from a slow to med speed roll to 120 or so it seems the STi still has an edge, but it's very minimal. I'm guessing the stories on the SRT boards are very different though

Pkskull77

I think this is perhaps the most insightful post in the whole lot. Every single 8 owner could have purchased an SRT-4. I could go down to the local Dodge dealership right now and trade my 8 for and SRT-4, and probably end up with cash in my pocket. The fact of the matter is that all of us made a decision to not buy the SRT-4. This can’t be said of every SRT-4 owner; many of them may have desired an 8 but just couldn’t afford the price tag. There in lies the fundamental problem with any argument that an “8 owner is jealous or afraid of the SRT-4.”

The SRT-4 is a great car in its own right, but the car does have some fundamental problems that can’t be overcome. For the most part the car is at the limits of its platform. If you add much more power, the car starts to become un-drivable. Upgrading the suspension would add some grip, but no substantial gains are to be had. Any attempts to further improve the SRT-4 would come at such great expense that the value gained would not justify the sacrifices made. Essentially the SRT-4 stretches the Neon platform to its limits.

Perhaps the biggest issues people have with the SRT-4 are its looks and reputation (AKA “It’s a Neon”). The SRT-4 can never change its lineage, and the fact remains that car was originally built for and marketed towards women. No matter how much power you add the car will be a hard sell on men. Furthermore, the Neon comes with the “RICER” reputation, which is an image reserved for a select few. Therefore the SRT-4 is relegated to young kids, and people who want a lot of bang at the sacrifice of refinement.

My girlfriend used to own a Neon, and to be honest with you it was a great car. But I must admit I felt like an idiot driving the thing around. Add a couple years to my age, and a lot more horses to the NEON and things remain the same. I’m an attorney, and I can’t drive an SRT-4 to work. I can’t pick up a client in a Neon. If I was single I couldn’t pick up a chick in the SRT-4. The car is what it is, and beyond the power there is not a whole lot there.

At the same time the RX-8 is not as fast as the SRT-4, but the potential for the 8 to be ridiculously fast exist. The platform that the 8 is built on has not even begun to scratch the surface of its potential. So if your focus is in a strait line the 8 will become an exceedingly good choice in the near future.

Off the line performance aside, the RX-8 is a better car than the SRT-4. It handles better (only slightly, but it does), looks better, and comes outfitted with a better interior. The 8 also carries a better reputation, so I don’t feel like a fool driving the darn thing. For me that is the beginning and end of the story!

VikingDJ

So Ike, you are saying the dyno numbers and weight advantage SRT has doesn't play a role. that's all I based it on. average 230-235whp for srt and 235-240 max for STI. Of course I got this info from non bias racing website that showed dynos before and after their mods. If you add the 350+lbs STI is giving up, it's a very subjective argument. I can't wait to put this to the test. I guess each owner will claim the other is faster on highway, but I'll stay neutral and call it even. I won't agree or disagree at this point, but looking at that SRT dyno chart, it's awfully scary for us STI owners if you come across one on highway. That chart shows some serious power range in the higher speeds. We shall see.

VikingDJ

Well, if what you just said was true, then there wouldn't be any bashing on the srt now would there. No need to start an argument and get defensive man. I love my Rx8, and if I had to chose between getting rid of my rx8 or STI, the STI would be GONE. Fortunately I don't have to make that decision. I think deep down we all want more performance out of RX8, and hopefully we will soon get it. My only argument is to appreciate what you have, and respect other cars that were built for a different purpose. Yes looks do go a long long way. However, those speed guys have a name for people like us that care more about looks more then power. They call us ricers. We also seem to have a name for them as well. Why not respect each other? I'm damn proud to be a ricer, and I'm damn proud to be a speed guy as well.

Overport

Who really cares what they say?

They drive a Neon for christs sake.

BlueEyes

That's the attitude that starts these threads.
Don't worry though, no one with a nicer car than you cares what you have too say either, after all, you're just driving a mazda

Steiner

That's consistent with my experiences too. My brother has a good friend with an '04 STi. Before the STi got wrecked (it was parked, not his fault obviously) we use to race each other frequently to measure real world gains from modifications we had done. Back when the "War Stories" section of SRT forums was actually about racing I posted a couple accounts. Unfortunately I never did get a chance to race him after I installed stage 2 though...so all I can do is guess how I would have done.

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55647

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65718

DISCLAIMER: I in no way condone street racing nor the subculture it has spawned. Racing other cars with nobody around is fun though. :D

Overport

Exactly!

Riggs

I'm not going to argue with your guys' technical knowledge.

I was just speaking from my experiences when confronted by SRT4 owners.
Not one of them has even stayed near me? And my STi is stock?

I know a number of factors could play a part in this. Maybe these drivers were inexperienced or down right poor?

Or maybe I'm just the next Schumacher

Ike

Fact of the matter is there are a lot of SRT-4 drivers that are young and probably aren't very good drivers. The 03s are also a little slower than the 04+ models and an STi should have a bit more of an edge. Plus if you're talking from a dig an SRT-4 isn't going to hang with you.

VikingDJ

I think many people don't look at all angles of racing. When you compare 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times in STi and srt-4, naturally it's not all that close. However when you are rolling at high speeds all bets are off, and those numbers mean very little. Certain cars simply shine at higher speed rolls, and just aren't all that great in 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile. It reminds me of my 87 Starion. That car was never very fast in 1/4 mile and 0 to 60, but on highway, it was a force to be reckoned with, and can take out cars that in a 1/4 mile race would beat it without too much trouble. It's something to keep in mind when comparing various cars, because some cars are just tuned differently, and can shine in other aspects besides 1/4 mile. This is why I never look at 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile as a tell tale sign. One car can be falling off, while another is just getting warmed up, and in that case, you can be beaten, even though road tests show you have a slower 1/4 mile car.

Aoshi Shinomori

The quarter mile tests do usually give a lot of insight as far as how a car will move on the highway. The trap speed itself tells us just about all we need to know about a highway race. I don't know the times off of my head but I think the STI is a tad faster as far as the trap goes, but I could be wrong.

VikingDJ

Oh no doubt it plays a role, but you can't look at the times and know for sure if you can take it on highway. I'm talking crazy speeds like up to 130mph, in which I don't recommend by any means. Remember you are starting out at a higher speed, not 0 to 130, so things do change. Some cars keep on going while others simply begin to fall off. It may only be a couple of car lengths, but i have experienced first hand how a car that performs less in 1/4 mile can edge you out from those high speed rolls. Trap speeds to give us a good sign on highway race, but once you get into those numbers above a normal trap speed, things can change very fast trust me.

Aoshi Shinomori

I'm not saying that there aren't any exceptions, there are a lot of cars with high traps that just don't have a lot of top end power. I.e. the C5. I'm just saying that the traps can give a good estimate of who might pull away.

Pkskull77

Are people insane? As far as I am concerned anything over 100 mph is unusable. There are no roads in the US where you can legally achieve speeds over 100. I don’t care if no one is around, I don’t care if you are careful as hell, traveling at those speeds is ludicrous. If anything goes wrong, someone is going to die, and if you are unlucky enough to live your going to jail.

With that in mind, 0-60 is far more important than speeds above 100. Most roads with two lanes and a stoplight are 50mph zones, so hitting 60 is not that big a deal. So if you own an SRT-4 and call me out on speeds above 100 I would laugh in your face. It frightens me that people drive this fast on the street.