DARKMAZ8

Why not go the Front mount route? That should free up more power along with an exhaust upgrade. Should run wayyy cooler after that.

crossbow

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps.shtml

Just for those interested, the recent topgear had a review of the MPS 6 (they praised it, and liked the car, except for its ugly appearance), in which the stig did a power lap.

http://www.finalgear.com/shows/topgear/8/6/

The rx8 beat the MPS 6 on the powerlap board...keep in mind this mps 6 was a bit lower in power then the US version, but its still a solid win to the rx8, for those owners who are constantly wondering how the two cars would do against each other in "track" conditions.

And yes, a front mount would solve alot of problems...only fitment is an issue as that giant gaping front hole actually isn't. Almost 30% of the open front is the foam crash bumper. That combined with a welded in place front bumper, has given the aftermarket some interesting fitment issues.

As for putting on all-seasons on the MPS 6...the standard car's skidpad scores are only what they are because of the low treadware tires...replace them, and you'll drop below a standard 6i with all-seasons. This is ignoring the fact that the car also severely undertired (the rx8 has more tread, and weighs almost 700 lbs less), so don't expect the same handling with all-season radials. Be very wary when specing the replacement all-seasons that you meet the load requirements for the car. Stock tire pressures are already high to just barely meet the load requirements from those 215/45/18's...mazda should be punched in the face for putting such skinny rubber on such a heavy sedan. The improvement from 235/45/17 RT-615's on 17x8's would be drastic.

dmp

instead of a FMIC, has anyone done a Scooby-style scoop?

Also:

Some of you guys need to take a break from life. Seriously. Ike is right-on with his assessments; it's as if some of you have egos too fragile to hear/read ANYTHING which isn't praising your car of choice. lmao...Crossbowned...haha

dmp

If you could help me find a non-torrent video of that run, I'd be in your debt.

crossbow

dmp,

I suggest using utorrent. It's a completely standalone torrent package. Single exe. When you're done downloading the torrent, just delete it.

Regardless of whether you use that info, here are some yourtube clips of the mps 6.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Uri...search=mps%206

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n_Ck...search=mps%206

BoxerGT2.5

There are absolutely no problems with a FMIC on the LGT even when run with the VF40. Only problem is getting rev'd by every ricer in a civic from here to kingdom come.

Japan8

^ no problems meaning the car still runs like OEM stock, or no problems meaning "yeah you can make it work without too much trouble". Only category 1 matters to me. Category 2 is for weekend/project/track cars.

crossbow

There are a variety of fundamental issues with FMIC's on the subaru platform (mainly wrx, sti, and legacy) that are often ignored by owners of the vehicles. There seems to be some sort of FMIC obsession, even when that obsession is often not the best solution to the problem.

Adding a FMIC to an STI...

1) Removes frontal crash protection* (except for the injen FMIC, which nobody likes)
2) Adds roughly 5-6 feet of piping between the turbocharger and the intake manifold inlet**.
3) Blocks airflow to the radiator, which was never designed to work in conjunction with a FMIC.
4) Requires tuning to function properly. (Can be bad news if you just swap and hope for the best without a protune.

*=Crash bumper is usually removed completely, and replaced with a "crash bar". Nearly all of the "good" (being defined by individuals who generally don't have any experience with charge cooling design) FMIC's replace the front bumper.
**=See photo...its really obscene. Smart owners will flip the intake manifold (cutting out about 2 feet of piping), or run a V mount radiator/intercooler.

Most of the FMIC's for the sti have poor endtank design as well, resulting in only a portion of the internal passages being utilized. In some cases, only 40% of the intercooler is actually being utilized!

This is actually a really big pet peeve of mine. The more I research into turbochargers, the more appauled I get. It's no wonder owners start DIY'ing when even the aftermarket company's can't follow basic charge cooling concepts.

This photo illustrates the obscene amount of piping needed to run an FMIC, and the removal of the front bumper. In this particular example, the endtank design of the intercooler is actually decent.

Japan8

That was it... thanks crossbow. It had to do with all addtional piping and effects on boost/response. I'm no turbo pro... just repeating something I had read sometime ago.

Ike

And you're both repeating just for the sake of doing so. If doing an FMIC on an STI with a big turbo wasn't beneficial people wouldn't do it... There are plenty of larger TMIC options for the Subarus on the market, if they worked better than some of the FMICs on the market then the only people with FMICs would be ricers. That's clearly not the case.

Japan8

Ike...

I even clearly stated that I'm only repeating.

Unless you've tried it yourself... you're just giving second hand knowledge too, you know...

Ike

I've heard the Renesis has to be rebuilt every 60k miles. I'm only repeating...

Get my point?

Japan8

touche! Point made... it does work both ways though (not to outright say you're wrong... ).

crossbow

Agreed..but that still doesn't mean there isn't room for massive improvement with the design and implementation of charge cooling on the sti.

Most of the time it seems that owners care more about how large an intercooler is, and far less about if its actually flowing properly, or sized well for the vehicle. It's gigantic...so it's gotta be awesome right? Everyone is doing it!!!

In terms of actual efficency, the only decent intercoolers I've seen for the car are V mount style...but those carry quite the price tag. There has been some experimentation with water based TMIC's, which if executed correctly, could give you the best charge cooling possible for the car, while still allowing the removal of the top scoop.

It's interesting to note that subaru actually used to run water/air TMIC's awhile back.



The Vmount style not only allows for a FMIC (properly sized, with decent (still not optimal) endtank design), but replaces the radiator as well, to address other cooling issues. Still think it requires removal of the front bumper though .

Just because everyone does something, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do...it just means everyone is very good at copying everyone else.

BoxerGT2.5

Yes, within reason. Obviously if someone is going to add a FMIC they are likely doing so because of a bigger turbo. So running like OEM stock is relative. Your obviously adding power and in some cases lag. But there have been no issues with the cars when properly tuned. A TD06-18G can easily be run with a larger TMIC, some people go one step above that and add water injection. A 20G will likely warrant a FMIC. All of the aftermarket FMIC's for the LGT do not require you to remove the bumper beam, some require you to notch it, but not completely remove it.

In terms of the LGT you have the following options:

1. 18G or 20G in a VF40 housing
2. Any turbo you want with the use of a FMIC
3. Swap over the STI intake manifold/TGV's and you can run any STI turbo with a TMIC.

Japan8

Option 3 sounds like a sweet cost effective option...

Ike

That's what a lot of guys are doing, but the VF39 is still pretty small. If you're looking for big power it's FMIC or bust (for now at least)...

AdRoCK3217

Wait, your post just SERIOUSLY confused me.


A v-mount does not allow for a front-mount intercooler...as a V-mount is not FRONT MOUNTED! It's mounted well back, in the engine bay, with a V design, allowing equal air to enter both the radiator and intercooler. With proper ducting, this is hands down the BEST way to setup an intercooler and radiator. Charge pipes a tad longer then top-mount, but much shorter then front-mount. Air getting to both the radiator, and the intercooler.


It is costly to do correctly (IE: ducting), but..as you said, you do have to remove the front bumper. But not for any reason other than to do ducting!

crossbow

Sorry...I guess I miscommunicated my statement. You are correct, and thats what I was trying to get across. The v-mount basically allows for frontal airflow to the intercooler (front mount, but not mounted in the front of the car), while providing for the other cooling systems of the vehicle. Quite possibly the best solution (especially with a rotated turbo setup as shown in the image), but also one of the most expensive. I'm actually confused as to how expensive it is. It's as if you are being charged multi-thousands for the bracket design.