RX-8 vs. S2K
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1
From: University of Maryland
i dont think theres really a big power discrepency between the 2 cars like some of you guys believe. I dont think the s2k engine is underated or anything. They are what they are... The s2k has better power to weight ratio thus should be faster. I think if mazda ever do a rx7 even with the same renesis engine as in the rx8, but with agressive sports suspension tune, it would then be pretty even with the s2k.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 759
Likes: 0
From: PNW
Originally Posted by playdoh43
I realize that, how much more though? i have a feeling its not a significant amount, like 30whp.
maybe 5-10 at most. just a guess.
maybe 5-10 at most. just a guess.
Music and Cars!!! :)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by 124Spider
Well, dmp organized a dyno day a year ago in these parts. A bunch of RX-8s came, and I brought my S2000 (our RX-8 was too new). All but one of the RX-8s put down between 180 and 185 rwhp, corrected, on the dynojet. My entirely stock 2004 S2000 put down 209.5. These are all pretty standard numbers. So there certainly is a 25 rwhp difference in the two cars. That's a lot, even if they weighed the same.
Last edited by VikingDJ; Jan 5, 2006 at 12:21 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1
From: University of Maryland
hmm, honda underating an engine? yeah right LOL :p honda only overates engines!
neways, thats quite a big difference... im pretty suprised the difference is this big.
On BMI i was miffed when the RX8 seems to get slightly out accerleated by the Integra Type R and Civic type R on the straight section of Tsukuba. I guess its not really that big of a suprise.
neways, thats quite a big difference... im pretty suprised the difference is this big.
On BMI i was miffed when the RX8 seems to get slightly out accerleated by the Integra Type R and Civic type R on the straight section of Tsukuba. I guess its not really that big of a suprise.
fair play~
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
did you know Best Motoring Int. are said to be often biased.. they are sponsored by Honda after all 
Originally Posted by Detrich
I'm sure u guys have seen it already, but there is a dvd video made by one of the magazines (japanese with english subtitles) that compares the rx8 to the skyline, s2k, z, rsx type-s, miata, wrx, bmw 3-series, rx7 fd etc.- all driven on a track (& other tests) by professional race car drivers.
Overall, the s2k performed exceptionally well- almost the best, if i recall correctly. (I have the DVD at work and will look up the title.)
Unfortunately, the video was very painful to watch- namely because every car- even the rsx beat the 8 like it was a yugo next to a pack of ferraris. Sadly, the only car in the bunch that the 8 could out-pace on the track was the miata.
However, the 8 performed really well on the slip differential & cone tests. And, the drivers said ovearll the 8 was one of the funnest cars of the bunch to drive- despite it's lacking in the torque area.
Still, I think most of us who own 8's are still very much in love w/ are cars, as said many times again- speed isn't all a car is about.
Overall, the s2k performed exceptionally well- almost the best, if i recall correctly. (I have the DVD at work and will look up the title.)
Unfortunately, the video was very painful to watch- namely because every car- even the rsx beat the 8 like it was a yugo next to a pack of ferraris. Sadly, the only car in the bunch that the 8 could out-pace on the track was the miata.
However, the 8 performed really well on the slip differential & cone tests. And, the drivers said ovearll the 8 was one of the funnest cars of the bunch to drive- despite it's lacking in the torque area.
Still, I think most of us who own 8's are still very much in love w/ are cars, as said many times again- speed isn't all a car is about.
Music and Cars!!! :)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by playdoh43
hmm, honda underating an engine? yeah right LOL :p honda only overates engines!
Well if they do overrate engines, then I don't even know what to call the rating of Mazda's vehicles.
Dynos are almost always in the 200-210whp range on S2KS, and I have seen many of them. The S2K is rated at 240, the RX8 238hp. Personally I think the S2K is right on cue with it's rating, and the RX8 is just way off. 200lbs less weight and 15-20 more whp makes sense why the S2K is faster, even though it's rated the same. If the numbers were accurate on both ends, the 200lbs would only make the S2K very slightly faster, and the difference would not be this much. This stuff is confusing, because the RX8 should be almost as fast as the S2K, and it's not. I never felt like I ever bought a 238hp car, now that I own an S2K, but it never bothered me. That car was about so much more. 
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1
From: University of Maryland
i dont think they are honda baised, of all the races ive seen, the s2000 seemed to always loose to the 350z coupe, except for the most recent one where it beat the 350z convertable. Ive seen the RX-7 win a couple of races also. Tsuchia especially is a big RX-7 fan. Even though the RX8 havnt been winning, the RX7 has represented Mazda quite well. They also did couple of episodes themed on rotary cars.
IMO just because they are sponsored by Honda dosnt mean their races results are fixed.
IMO just because they are sponsored by Honda dosnt mean their races results are fixed.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 759
Likes: 0
From: PNW
Originally Posted by TODreamer
Does anybody know exactly WHY the RX8 loses power like that? it should dyno at like the stook
So you get a 25 rwhp difference in the cars.
RX8 and a Truk....
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,658
Likes: 7
From: OKC
Originally Posted by 124Spider
I don't think it's a question of "loses power." I think that Mazda simply is being optimistic about the power of the Renesis in the RX-8 (heck, they were caught with their hands in the cookie jar when the car first came out; my guess is that they now use the largest number they can without having legal liability). And the newer S2000 dynos at 10-15rwhp greater than the earlier ones, but Honda did not increase the nominal rating of the cars.
So you get a 25 rwhp difference in the cars.
So you get a 25 rwhp difference in the cars.
I think it happend like this:
Mazda dyno'd the Renesis at 247hp on an Engine Dyno. Mazda then Found trouble with the Cat-Converters. Rather than re-dyno, Mazda just f'd up the ECU enough to save the cat, and 'guesstimated' the losses. An Engineer probably sent a Memo saying they'd lose 4% of the engine's power...thus 238. I believe the re-flash could have equaled at 10-15% reduction in power, in the real world...as evidenced by RacingBeat's 216 HP number when they put the renesis on their engine dyno. At the risk of MORE HP controversy, Mazda decided NOT to re-issue a HP rating of about 220-225hp hoping most people wouldn't notice, or care enough to push the issue.
That's my guess.
Registered
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
A few things...
First, insurance. When I priced insurance on various cars, the S2000 was by far the most expensive. Compared to the RX-8 it would have cost me $400 more a year, $1400 vs. $1000. A large percentage difference.
People who own both or have gone from one to the other, have you seen a similar difference?
Second, dynos. Is the RPM peak on a dyno the same as in the engine spec. I vaguely recall noting that the peak is lower on a dyno. So even if two cars have same peak HP at the crank, if one has stronger midrange power it might come out better on the dyno. Just a hypothesis.
First, insurance. When I priced insurance on various cars, the S2000 was by far the most expensive. Compared to the RX-8 it would have cost me $400 more a year, $1400 vs. $1000. A large percentage difference.
People who own both or have gone from one to the other, have you seen a similar difference?
Second, dynos. Is the RPM peak on a dyno the same as in the engine spec. I vaguely recall noting that the peak is lower on a dyno. So even if two cars have same peak HP at the crank, if one has stronger midrange power it might come out better on the dyno. Just a hypothesis.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
From: rialto ca
will the reason why honda did not increase the number because if they clamed it around 260 and compare more to a z which the z going to will the power war plus s2kis marketed to compete with the bmw z4 use to be z3 no made to compete with the z even though i think its a better car then a z
fair play~
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Originally Posted by playdoh43
i dont think they are honda baised, of all the races ive seen, the s2000 seemed to always loose to the 350z coupe, except for the most recent one where it beat the 350z convertable. Ive seen the RX-7 win a couple of races also. Tsuchia especially is a big RX-7 fan. Even though the RX8 havnt been winning, the RX7 has represented Mazda quite well. They also did couple of episodes themed on rotary cars.
IMO just because they are sponsored by Honda dosnt mean their races results are fixed.
IMO just because they are sponsored by Honda dosnt mean their races results are fixed.
and sometimes, it does show favourbly.
Tsuchiya is also a big fan of Honda, Toyota, Nissan and what else~
and most of the time, he's the one driving non mazda cars in the show..
Last edited by playa78; Jan 10, 2006 at 12:51 AM.
Music and Cars!!! :)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by mkaresh
A few things...
First, insurance. When I priced insurance on various cars, the S2000 was by far the most expensive. Compared to the RX-8 it would have cost me $400 more a year, $1400 vs. $1000. A large percentage difference.
People who own both or have gone from one to the other, have you seen a similar difference?
First, insurance. When I priced insurance on various cars, the S2000 was by far the most expensive. Compared to the RX-8 it would have cost me $400 more a year, $1400 vs. $1000. A large percentage difference.
People who own both or have gone from one to the other, have you seen a similar difference?
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Freakazoid
Alright as a disclaimer, I tried doing a search for this, didn't come up with anything. Whether through the search function or scanning through the forums. So I'm sorry if there are previous threads out there that cover this, I'm not used to this board system so I haven't learned all the intricacies (like doing an advanced search type thing?). So that's my disclaimer, please don't flame on that .
Through my searches I did come up with some basics, some ideas, but not quite specific for what I'm looking at/for.
Anyways to the title to start off with.
I've limited my selection down to 2 cars. A RX-8 or a S2K. This car would be my summer/fun car while I would keep my beater for winters/bad weather. As a preface, I'm tall (6'6" with extremely long legs ). I fit in a s2k rather snugly, but courtesy of the sensitive steering/steering wheel I don't have to make revolutions with the steering wheel so it doesn't hamper my driving (taken 3 test drives so far, eventually going to try to pay someone to let me test drive it for a longer period of time to make sure). Have yet to get into a rx-8 but I'd imagine it's probably nearly the same length. But I dont' want that to completely affect my decision, I want a car that's fun, etc.
I'm looking at probably getting either used, but that laguna blue is looking DAMN nice, as is the Shinka RX-8.
Both are pretty high revving engines, both have pretty low torque numbers. Both are aimed more for tracks and turns rather than straight line drag strip performance. Both are light RWD cars that cost relatively the same. (Surprised I haven't been able to find this comparison anywhere else).
The first big difference is the whole convertible/coupe comparison. Which, I guess, is the reason why nobody really compares these 2. Obviously the convertible thing automatically gives the S2K an advantage for me (love the convertibles). But as for the rest of the differences. Big thing I've noticed is the RX-8 has alot more amenities (be it good or bad). Heated seats, navigation system, better sound system etc etc. Be that a good thing or a bad thing, it depends on how you look at it.
Rotary engine could be a kicker for me, because I'd ideally want to be keeping whatever car I get for a 100k miles, hopefully over that . I know finding people to do work on Rotary engines can be a massive pain, so that's a drawback. Both seem to have random quirks, none really defining for either one.
Thoughts on this comparison?
Also anything I should particularly know from model year to model year of the 8? Any year in particular I should try to avoid/ should favor?
Thanks guys!
Through my searches I did come up with some basics, some ideas, but not quite specific for what I'm looking at/for.
Anyways to the title to start off with.
I've limited my selection down to 2 cars. A RX-8 or a S2K. This car would be my summer/fun car while I would keep my beater for winters/bad weather. As a preface, I'm tall (6'6" with extremely long legs ). I fit in a s2k rather snugly, but courtesy of the sensitive steering/steering wheel I don't have to make revolutions with the steering wheel so it doesn't hamper my driving (taken 3 test drives so far, eventually going to try to pay someone to let me test drive it for a longer period of time to make sure). Have yet to get into a rx-8 but I'd imagine it's probably nearly the same length. But I dont' want that to completely affect my decision, I want a car that's fun, etc.
I'm looking at probably getting either used, but that laguna blue is looking DAMN nice, as is the Shinka RX-8.
Both are pretty high revving engines, both have pretty low torque numbers. Both are aimed more for tracks and turns rather than straight line drag strip performance. Both are light RWD cars that cost relatively the same. (Surprised I haven't been able to find this comparison anywhere else).
The first big difference is the whole convertible/coupe comparison. Which, I guess, is the reason why nobody really compares these 2. Obviously the convertible thing automatically gives the S2K an advantage for me (love the convertibles). But as for the rest of the differences. Big thing I've noticed is the RX-8 has alot more amenities (be it good or bad). Heated seats, navigation system, better sound system etc etc. Be that a good thing or a bad thing, it depends on how you look at it.
Rotary engine could be a kicker for me, because I'd ideally want to be keeping whatever car I get for a 100k miles, hopefully over that . I know finding people to do work on Rotary engines can be a massive pain, so that's a drawback. Both seem to have random quirks, none really defining for either one.
Thoughts on this comparison?
Also anything I should particularly know from model year to model year of the 8? Any year in particular I should try to avoid/ should favor?
Thanks guys!
Dont get me wrong i love noise.... LOVE NOISE, but the s2000 was a little too noisy and plain. nothing is in it. NAV no, glove box, you barly fit your cell, radio/cd you wont hear well.
when i sat in rx8, i really missed the classenes, driving smooth and feel you actually own a car not a motrbike on four wheels. I would only recommend the s2k only when you have another car. That car is really REALLY FUN when you are in the mood of racing and having fun. But when its traffic, cold and 2 seater you will regret it BIG TIME.
MAKE SURE YOU DRIVE THAT CAR TOP UP, SERIOUSELY you well notice what i am talking about.
Choose WISELY
Last edited by lov2bugu; Jan 11, 2006 at 12:46 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
From: Apalachin, NY
Originally Posted by VikingDJ
Now the STI on the other hand, that's the car that is really expensive compared to RX8 and S2K
My wife's RX-8 (6-speed w/GT package) = $740/year
Same policy, same coverage
CAW CAW
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
From: Toronto
Originally Posted by VikingDJ
When I sold my RX8, and bought an S2K, my insurance did not change one single bit with the same exact coverage. Some insurance companies clasify the S2000 as a higher risk, when others don't. Geico is one of those insurance companies that does not classify that car in a high range. State Farm does however, which is why I made the switch. If I still had State Farm, I'd be seeing about $3-400 a year increase. Now the STI on the other hand, that's the car that is really expensive compared to RX8 and S2K
I concur... I got a quote on both... Identical!!!
my jaw hit the floor
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 759
Likes: 0
From: PNW
Originally Posted by mkaresh
A few things...
First, insurance. When I priced insurance on various cars, the S2000 was by far the most expensive. Compared to the RX-8 it would have cost me $400 more a year, $1400 vs. $1000. A large percentage difference.
People who own both or have gone from one to the other, have you seen a similar difference?
First, insurance. When I priced insurance on various cars, the S2000 was by far the most expensive. Compared to the RX-8 it would have cost me $400 more a year, $1400 vs. $1000. A large percentage difference.
People who own both or have gone from one to the other, have you seen a similar difference?
Originally Posted by mkaresh
Second, dynos. Is the RPM peak on a dyno the same as in the engine spec. I vaguely recall noting that the peak is lower on a dyno. So even if two cars have same peak HP at the crank, if one has stronger midrange power it might come out better on the dyno. Just a hypothesis.
Music and Cars!!! :)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by sti_eric
My STi = $760/year
My wife's RX-8 (6-speed w/GT package) = $740/year
Same policy, same coverage
My wife's RX-8 (6-speed w/GT package) = $740/year
Same policy, same coverage
Yep, it all depends on the area. Some of us are just plain lucky, some of us are not. The STI is a high insurance risk car in NJ and parts of PA. Collision and Comp ahot up like mad when I made this purchase. I tried to fight it, but after getting quotes from 4 different companies, the same result took place. I pay $1020 a year on my STI and $560 a year on the S2000, same coverage. I even put the S2000 as my daily driver, and STi as fun car, and they didn't fall for it. I still pay about the same amount as you overall, but I have taken a nice hit since purchasing this car.
If you live in NJ, and eastern PA, you will know what I talking about. As soon as the STI is fully paid off, which will be in a about a year or so, I am dropping collision, which is where I am taking the big hit in this area.
Last edited by VikingDJ; Jan 17, 2006 at 01:09 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
i owned the 8 for more than a year, and drove the s2k for a weekend. The s2k is faster and handles corners better, no doubt about that. People have to learn to admit it.
But recently aquired GTO would spank both of them
But recently aquired GTO would spank both of them
Registered
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Philly
Originally Posted by Ike
Actually on different days the M3 and RX-8 did that, on the same day with the same driver the G35 was faster than the RX-8 in the C&D comparo. My only real point is that just because that RX-8 handles a little better than cars like the Z and G35 doesn't mean it will be able to overcome what it's giving up in the horsepower department.
Some people on this site seem to forget, don't realize, or choose to ignore the fact that there are plenty of other cars that are very capable handlers. Just because a car is faster than the RX-8 in a straight line doesn't mean it handles poorly. The way some people talk on here you'd think cars like the Evo, STi/WRX, Z/G35, GTO, SRT-4, etc. are freaking drag cars.
Some people on this site seem to forget, don't realize, or choose to ignore the fact that there are plenty of other cars that are very capable handlers. Just because a car is faster than the RX-8 in a straight line doesn't mean it handles poorly. The way some people talk on here you'd think cars like the Evo, STi/WRX, Z/G35, GTO, SRT-4, etc. are freaking drag cars.
The RX-8 suspension was tuned for ride/handling/feel/balance and very much on the conservative side. Add sway bars to the RX-8 and THERE WILL BE NO COMPETITION, no matter what suspension bits you add to the other cars.
Last edited by Slick8; Feb 2, 2006 at 01:44 AM.