RX-8 vs. S2K
01-02-2006, 07:45 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by Freakazoid
Alright as a disclaimer, I tried doing a search for this, didn't come up with anything. Whether through the search function or scanning through the forums. So I'm sorry if there are previous threads out there that cover this, I'm not used to this board system so I haven't learned all the intricacies (like doing an advanced search type thing?). So that's my disclaimer, please don't flame on that .
Through my searches I did come up with some basics, some ideas, but not quite specific for what I'm looking at/for.
Anyways to the title to start off with.
I've limited my selection down to 2 cars. A RX-8 or a S2K. This car would be my summer/fun car while I would keep my beater for winters/bad weather. As a preface, I'm tall (6'6" with extremely long legs ). I fit in a s2k rather snugly, but courtesy of the sensitive steering/steering wheel I don't have to make revolutions with the steering wheel so it doesn't hamper my driving (taken 3 test drives so far, eventually going to try to pay someone to let me test drive it for a longer period of time to make sure). Have yet to get into a rx-8 but I'd imagine it's probably nearly the same length. But I dont' want that to completely affect my decision, I want a car that's fun, etc.
I'm looking at probably getting either used, but that laguna blue is looking DAMN nice, as is the Shinka RX-8.
Both are pretty high revving engines, both have pretty low torque numbers. Both are aimed more for tracks and turns rather than straight line drag strip performance. Both are light RWD cars that cost relatively the same. (Surprised I haven't been able to find this comparison anywhere else).
The first big difference is the whole convertible/coupe comparison. Which, I guess, is the reason why nobody really compares these 2. Obviously the convertible thing automatically gives the S2K an advantage for me (love the convertibles). But as for the rest of the differences. Big thing I've noticed is the RX-8 has alot more amenities (be it good or bad). Heated seats, navigation system, better sound system etc etc. Be that a good thing or a bad thing, it depends on how you look at it.
Rotary engine could be a kicker for me, because I'd ideally want to be keeping whatever car I get for a 100k miles, hopefully over that . I know finding people to do work on Rotary engines can be a massive pain, so that's a drawback. Both seem to have random quirks, none really defining for either one.
Thoughts on this comparison?
Also anything I should particularly know from model year to model year of the 8? Any year in particular I should try to avoid/ should favor?
Thanks guys!
Through my searches I did come up with some basics, some ideas, but not quite specific for what I'm looking at/for.
Anyways to the title to start off with.
I've limited my selection down to 2 cars. A RX-8 or a S2K. This car would be my summer/fun car while I would keep my beater for winters/bad weather. As a preface, I'm tall (6'6" with extremely long legs ). I fit in a s2k rather snugly, but courtesy of the sensitive steering/steering wheel I don't have to make revolutions with the steering wheel so it doesn't hamper my driving (taken 3 test drives so far, eventually going to try to pay someone to let me test drive it for a longer period of time to make sure). Have yet to get into a rx-8 but I'd imagine it's probably nearly the same length. But I dont' want that to completely affect my decision, I want a car that's fun, etc.
I'm looking at probably getting either used, but that laguna blue is looking DAMN nice, as is the Shinka RX-8.
Both are pretty high revving engines, both have pretty low torque numbers. Both are aimed more for tracks and turns rather than straight line drag strip performance. Both are light RWD cars that cost relatively the same. (Surprised I haven't been able to find this comparison anywhere else).
The first big difference is the whole convertible/coupe comparison. Which, I guess, is the reason why nobody really compares these 2. Obviously the convertible thing automatically gives the S2K an advantage for me (love the convertibles). But as for the rest of the differences. Big thing I've noticed is the RX-8 has alot more amenities (be it good or bad). Heated seats, navigation system, better sound system etc etc. Be that a good thing or a bad thing, it depends on how you look at it.
Rotary engine could be a kicker for me, because I'd ideally want to be keeping whatever car I get for a 100k miles, hopefully over that . I know finding people to do work on Rotary engines can be a massive pain, so that's a drawback. Both seem to have random quirks, none really defining for either one.
Thoughts on this comparison?
Also anything I should particularly know from model year to model year of the 8? Any year in particular I should try to avoid/ should favor?
Thanks guys!
When I did my car search, I was down to:
1) RX8
2) S2000
3) MiniCooper S "John Cooper Edition"
4) BMW Z4
In doing the final "cut down" at the end of the day while I could afford it, I couldn't justify the nearly $40K for the BMW although it was the car I liked the best, cost aside.
I thought the most entertaining performer of the bunch was the Mini Cooper, but it just is too damn cartoonish. I think I will indulge my enjoyment of one of those when my oldest son turns 16 in 3 years and the used market it flooded with Coopers.
That left the S2000 and the RX8. I was coming out of a string of large Japanese luxury sedans (two Acura TLs in a row, plus an Acura Legend Coupe), so I wanted that close-coupled "rocket powered roller skate" feel, and I wanted to be able to autocross it if I had the time, which I've only found time to do twice, damnit!
The S2000 had the advantage going in honestly - I'm very predisposed to Hondas and will likely go back to an Acura when I'm done with the lease on this car, if I don't have to return the Mercedes I've currently also got (a C-Class AMG on loan from my client, that I'm trying to barter to keep). I loved the idea of the rag top, loved the way it drove - fantastic engine, that Honda "whee!" revving engine, snick-snick gearbox, etc. In fact, I had an order down on the car.
What was going against the RX-8 at the time was mainly cost. I didn't feel like the RX-8 felt as refined or solid, although, I am addicted to Rotary engine noise and hadn't had one since I sold my 1985 RX-7. That tug was the strongest of all. So, I didn't feel like I wanted to pay the juice my dealer was asking for on the RX-8 - about $1200 off sticker for a red GT loaded with all but Navi and the appearance package.
Then, one day about a month before my TL lease was up, and my S2000 was due to come in, I was driving through Evanston IL and saw a Lightning Yellow RX-8 in the front row of the dealership - gorgeous color, appearance package. Awesome looking! I pulled up to a stop, hopped out and started looking at it. One of the sales managers came out and started talking with me, and said "You really like this color and this car?" I said, "Yes, it's fantastic!" He said "Well you're about the first guy ever that has said that. I will make you a deal of a lifetime on this car. We got it in a dealer trade from South Carolina 4 months ago, and haven't been able to sell it. My owner says "Move it! I don't care how little we get - no one in Evanston is going to buy it (Evanston is a rather "tony" suburb of Chicago)" "
So we went in and he offered me an outrageous lease deal on it - $363 a month for 48 months, no money down at all - sign and drive, AND they gave me a $1000 check to boot. They wrote the lease capitolization at $25,650 to achieve this - on a car with a $32,000 sticker!
So, I signed it, got it, etc.
I do ocasionally wish I'd gotten the S2K - on sunny days. But on all other days I love the RX-8.
Stew
01-02-2006, 04:13 PM
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i don't know if i would get an s2k myself if I weren't in SoCal. If I lived where it snowed for a few months out of the year, I don't know how i'd stand it without driving something i loved...
01-02-2006, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GyroFX
i don't know if i would get an s2k myself if I weren't in SoCal. If I lived where it snowed for a few months out of the year, I don't know how i'd stand it without driving something i loved...
Nothing could be farther from the truth, of course. It's just a RWD car; put proper tires on it, don't drive like a moron, and it'll go through anything. Kind of like an RX-8.
Now, try putting the top down on the RX-8.
01-02-2006, 06:59 PM
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Say it ain't so, damn Rx-8 is passed by everything except the Miata which was gaining ground. I thought the Rx-8 could out handle the G35? As always a good driver makes a big difference.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0711702&q=rx-8
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0711702&q=rx-8
01-02-2006, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hotsauce
Say it ain't so, damn Rx-8 is passed by everything except the Miata which was gaining ground. I thought the Rx-8 could out handle the G35? As always a good driver makes a big difference.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0711702&q=rx-8
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0711702&q=rx-8
01-02-2006, 07:44 PM
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That vdeo has been around for almost two years. The RX-8 sounds as if it's being shifted as if it's out on a Sunday drive. The RX-8 jumped out in the lead, and was running ahead for almost two laps and then all of a sudden it falls behind.
The video proves nothing.
In the 1960's Ralph Nader had a film made of how the Chevrolet Corvair was a handling disaster waiting to happen. The film showed a Corvair going out of control and flipping. Fifteen or so years later the driver of that Corvair admitted he was paid to help it lose control.
The video proves nothing.
In the 1960's Ralph Nader had a film made of how the Chevrolet Corvair was a handling disaster waiting to happen. The film showed a Corvair going out of control and flipping. Fifteen or so years later the driver of that Corvair admitted he was paid to help it lose control.
01-02-2006, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 6speed8
That vdeo has been around for almost two years. The RX-8 sounds as if it's being shifted as if it's out on a Sunday drive. The RX-8 jumped out in the lead, and was running ahead for almost two laps and then all of a sudden it falls behind.
The video proves nothing.
In the 1960's Ralph Nader had a film made of how the Chevrolet Corvair was a handling disaster waiting to happen. The film showed a Corvair going out of control and flipping. Fifteen or so years later the driver of that Corvair admitted he was paid to help it lose control.
The video proves nothing.
In the 1960's Ralph Nader had a film made of how the Chevrolet Corvair was a handling disaster waiting to happen. The film showed a Corvair going out of control and flipping. Fifteen or so years later the driver of that Corvair admitted he was paid to help it lose control.
01-02-2006, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Hotsauce
Say it ain't so, damn Rx-8 is passed by everything except the Miata which was gaining ground. I thought the Rx-8 could out handle the G35? As always a good driver makes a big difference.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0711702&q=rx-8
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0711702&q=rx-8
Jeezus that was pathetic
01-02-2006, 09:10 PM
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There are too many factors to compare cars like that. The only way to compare chassis is to have the same tires, same alignment, and go to a skid pad.
Heck, I have turned times faster than Lambo's, race prepped 911's, and F40's at several tracks, in my lightly modded Evo. And, at different tracks, I have been handed my As5 by SpecMiatas, because the track was a handling track, more than horsepower.
Videos are like magazine racing, they both prove NOTHING. Put up your vids and let go of the magazine specs. Both are great cars, but it is up to the driver to decide what he/she wants.
Heck, I have turned times faster than Lambo's, race prepped 911's, and F40's at several tracks, in my lightly modded Evo. And, at different tracks, I have been handed my As5 by SpecMiatas, because the track was a handling track, more than horsepower.
Videos are like magazine racing, they both prove NOTHING. Put up your vids and let go of the magazine specs. Both are great cars, but it is up to the driver to decide what he/she wants.
01-02-2006, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Car and Driver turned a better lap with the G35 than it did the RX-8 as well, but I suppose that doesn't mean anything either.
No it doesn't, and you know that Ike. On Top Gear the RX-8 tied with the M3 and 350Z, so what does that mean? Absolutely nothing except on THAT particular day those cars did that.
01-02-2006, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 6speed8
No it doesn't, and you know that Ike. On Top Gear the RX-8 tied with the M3 and 350Z, so what does that mean? Absolutely nothing except on THAT particular day those cars did that.
Some people on this site seem to forget, don't realize, or choose to ignore the fact that there are plenty of other cars that are very capable handlers. Just because a car is faster than the RX-8 in a straight line doesn't mean it handles poorly. The way some people talk on here you'd think cars like the Evo, STi/WRX, Z/G35, GTO, SRT-4, etc. are freaking drag cars.
01-02-2006, 10:10 PM
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Well things have gotten infinitely more complicted since my original post (the whole day period of time). And I thank everyone for the responses, alot to think over and absorb. but i did go for a test drive today.
Didn't get nearly close to getting a good drive (behind a schoolbus for one lap and behind some old fart in a freakin buick goin 5under the speed limit for the other lap. But I was lookin at a shinka 2005, not the best deal, going to do some haggling to see if they can get it reduced. What's peoples thoughts on new vs used for the Rx-8? seems like depreciation is a major kick in the butt, should I stick with a used one? the shinka is a pretty sweet color though honestly i don't like the interior quite as much.. Overall it did feel different than the S2K, much more practical feeling, much more of a DD with some oomph. Oh and if anyone was curious I did fit MUCH better in the 8 than the S2K. I was completely and totally comfortable in the 8. At first I was loving the heated seats, then I'm not sure if my butt got used to it or what, but they didn't seem to be nearly as nice as I was expecting.. They basically were giving me a quote of a 33k for a demo, plus a tradein and stuff (realistically they were asking about 30k a little more before trade-in, personally I feel that's too much? for a 2.5k mileage demo?) Gotta say I liked the interior better too but the radio cluster did seem rather cluttered.
Oh and maybe you guys can say otherwise, but are the back seats even REMOTELY practical? With me and the SEMI tall salesman in the car, there was NO room int he back for anyones legs. Are they even remotely plausible back seats for anyone near 6 foot tall?
Oh and I found out as well, didnt' realize they haven't made an 06 yet, Im going to do a search now, but if anyone wants to chime in of where I could find some info about what's happening with it. I'd appreciate it. But I'm going to do a search anyways in the meantime
Didn't get nearly close to getting a good drive (behind a schoolbus for one lap and behind some old fart in a freakin buick goin 5under the speed limit for the other lap. But I was lookin at a shinka 2005, not the best deal, going to do some haggling to see if they can get it reduced. What's peoples thoughts on new vs used for the Rx-8? seems like depreciation is a major kick in the butt, should I stick with a used one? the shinka is a pretty sweet color though honestly i don't like the interior quite as much.. Overall it did feel different than the S2K, much more practical feeling, much more of a DD with some oomph. Oh and if anyone was curious I did fit MUCH better in the 8 than the S2K. I was completely and totally comfortable in the 8. At first I was loving the heated seats, then I'm not sure if my butt got used to it or what, but they didn't seem to be nearly as nice as I was expecting.. They basically were giving me a quote of a 33k for a demo, plus a tradein and stuff (realistically they were asking about 30k a little more before trade-in, personally I feel that's too much? for a 2.5k mileage demo?) Gotta say I liked the interior better too but the radio cluster did seem rather cluttered.
Oh and maybe you guys can say otherwise, but are the back seats even REMOTELY practical? With me and the SEMI tall salesman in the car, there was NO room int he back for anyones legs. Are they even remotely plausible back seats for anyone near 6 foot tall?
Oh and I found out as well, didnt' realize they haven't made an 06 yet, Im going to do a search now, but if anyone wants to chime in of where I could find some info about what's happening with it. I'd appreciate it. But I'm going to do a search anyways in the meantime
01-02-2006, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Some people on this site seem to forget, don't realize, or choose to ignore the fact that there are plenty of other cars that are very capable handlers. Just because a car is faster than the RX-8 in a straight line doesn't mean it handles poorly.
01-02-2006, 10:17 PM
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Alright well from what I found while searching, the 2006 is supposed to be the same.
The salesman seemed to be completely out of the loop, and not in the typical idiotic salesman thing I've seen in the past that don't know anything about the cars. He was saying Mazda was being completely hush about what was happening with the 06 MY, and they wouldn't be able to order it or have it in stock regardless for a couple months even if they got the info now. He was saying it seemed like they were doing some sorta relatively major revamp with it, reducing to 2 seats or a style change or something.
True I'm only taking that at face value, but it seemed rather weird that we're now officially in 2006 and the salesmen don't seem to have a clue what's going on with the 06 models.
The salesman seemed to be completely out of the loop, and not in the typical idiotic salesman thing I've seen in the past that don't know anything about the cars. He was saying Mazda was being completely hush about what was happening with the 06 MY, and they wouldn't be able to order it or have it in stock regardless for a couple months even if they got the info now. He was saying it seemed like they were doing some sorta relatively major revamp with it, reducing to 2 seats or a style change or something.
True I'm only taking that at face value, but it seemed rather weird that we're now officially in 2006 and the salesmen don't seem to have a clue what's going on with the 06 models.
01-02-2006, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Freakazoid
They basically were giving me a quote of a 33k for a demo,
Originally Posted by Freakazoid
Oh and maybe you guys can say otherwise, but are the back seats even REMOTELY practical? With me and the SEMI tall salesman in the car, there was NO room int he back for anyones legs. Are they even remotely plausible back seats for anyone near 6 foot tall?
Buy used, unless you really want a new car.
Last edited by carbonRX8; 01-02-2006 at 10:24 PM.
01-02-2006, 10:22 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by Freakazoid
Alright well from what I found while searching, the 2006 is supposed to be the same.
The salesman seemed to be completely out of the loop, and not in the typical idiotic salesman thing I've seen in the past that don't know anything about the cars. He was saying Mazda was being completely hush about what was happening with the 06 MY, and they wouldn't be able to order it or have it in stock regardless for a couple months even if they got the info now. He was saying it seemed like they were doing some sorta relatively major revamp with it, reducing to 2 seats or a style change or something.
True I'm only taking that at face value, but it seemed rather weird that we're now officially in 2006 and the salesmen don't seem to have a clue what's going on with the 06 models.
The salesman seemed to be completely out of the loop, and not in the typical idiotic salesman thing I've seen in the past that don't know anything about the cars. He was saying Mazda was being completely hush about what was happening with the 06 MY, and they wouldn't be able to order it or have it in stock regardless for a couple months even if they got the info now. He was saying it seemed like they were doing some sorta relatively major revamp with it, reducing to 2 seats or a style change or something.
True I'm only taking that at face value, but it seemed rather weird that we're now officially in 2006 and the salesmen don't seem to have a clue what's going on with the 06 models.
and forget about the 2 seat thing. That is a "believe it when I see it thing." and it would be an RX7.
01-02-2006, 10:45 PM
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You can't expect the back seats to be just as spacious as a sedan's. But to me they're just fine. I'm 6 feet and I don't have trouble sitting, you just have to crunch your knee up a little higher. My friend at 6'2 also didn't have trouble.
I went used and found a very good deal. Red GT, 8000 miles (so fully broken-in), car looked like new (no scratches/chips), it even smelled like new. The guy really only put highway miles on it, so I got lucky. Try checking out the market in your area.
There's a sticky thread about the '06 model and its updates.
I went used and found a very good deal. Red GT, 8000 miles (so fully broken-in), car looked like new (no scratches/chips), it even smelled like new. The guy really only put highway miles on it, so I got lucky. Try checking out the market in your area.
There's a sticky thread about the '06 model and its updates.
01-02-2006, 11:21 PM
#69
back seats are great. unless a 6'6" person is sitting in front of you...
as to price..... the internet is you friend.... go to edmunds an request a quote and bicker with email.....
i think 2k right now below invoice could happen, maybe not for shinka. supply and demand...
beers
as to price..... the internet is you friend.... go to edmunds an request a quote and bicker with email.....
i think 2k right now below invoice could happen, maybe not for shinka. supply and demand...
beers
01-02-2006, 11:32 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by swoope
back seats are great. unless a 6'6" person is sitting in front of you...
as to price..... the internet is you friend.... go to edmunds an request a quote and bicker with email.....
i think 2k right now below invoice could happen, maybe not for shinka. supply and demand...
beers
as to price..... the internet is you friend.... go to edmunds an request a quote and bicker with email.....
i think 2k right now below invoice could happen, maybe not for shinka. supply and demand...
beers
01-03-2006, 12:18 AM
#71
Originally Posted by carbonRX8
2k below invoice? That usually only happens to cars you cant give away. I am not doubting you, if you know what you are talking about. Just....Da-yam. I paid about $100 over invoice back in early 04. I feel cheated.
depending on were you live it can happen.... am i happy about it, no. yes.
it is what it is ... right now in the car world it is a buyers market. enjoy...
fking realestate in fla..
beers
01-03-2006, 05:42 AM
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Dealers are pushing Shinka's like they're painted with 24ct gold, as in, highly over-priced. My local Mazda dealerships are trying hard to get rid of they're current '05 stock, so you definitely should be looking at invoice for pricing, not MSRP. And the back seat is very functional, most adult can fit in the back comfortably. (Honestly)
And as for that BMI video, I honestly have to question the honesty in BMI's test drivers. They acted as if the RX8 was the worst handling car this side of a Pontiac Grand-Am. All I have to say is..which car is winning in real life races?
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/706
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/704 - (Not an RX8, but use Renesis motors)
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/690
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/685 - (Didn't win, but took fastest lap and pole)
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/684
Also, finding someone to work on a rotary isn't that big a deal and most maintenance work is pretty much the same as any other motor. And ofcourse you can always take it back to you Mazda dealership.
As for reliability, it's not uncommon for non-turbo rotaries to go well over 200k miles without a rebuild. Rotaries got a bad rap from 3rd gen RX-7's which were blowing motors from the factory due to improper cooling.
And as for that BMI video, I honestly have to question the honesty in BMI's test drivers. They acted as if the RX8 was the worst handling car this side of a Pontiac Grand-Am. All I have to say is..which car is winning in real life races?
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/706
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/704 - (Not an RX8, but use Renesis motors)
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/690
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/685 - (Didn't win, but took fastest lap and pole)
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/684
Also, finding someone to work on a rotary isn't that big a deal and most maintenance work is pretty much the same as any other motor. And ofcourse you can always take it back to you Mazda dealership.
As for reliability, it's not uncommon for non-turbo rotaries to go well over 200k miles without a rebuild. Rotaries got a bad rap from 3rd gen RX-7's which were blowing motors from the factory due to improper cooling.
01-03-2006, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Freakazoid
Both are light RWD cars that cost relatively the same.
I've driven the 2.0L S2k a few times. Both it and the RX8 are lightweight, neutral, balanced, and responsive. Both have excellent shifters, steering feedback, and road feel. But the S2k is edgier: it handles better and is faster while the RX8 is more comfortable and forgiving (though now that the S2k has TCS, that's less of an issue). If the price and practicality differences didn't matter to me, I'd get an S2k over an RX8.
Originally Posted by 6speed8
In the 1960's Ralph Nader had a film made of how the Chevrolet Corvair was a handling disaster waiting to happen. The film showed a Corvair going out of control and flipping. Fifteen or so years later the driver of that Corvair admitted he was paid to help it lose control.
01-03-2006, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by carbonRX8
2k below invoice? That usually only happens to cars you cant give away. I am not doubting you, if you know what you are talking about. Just....Da-yam. I paid about $100 over invoice back in early 04. I feel cheated.
01-03-2006, 12:18 PM
#75
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by Deslock
But the S2k is edgier: it handles better and is faster while the RX8 is more comfortable and forgiving (though now that the S2k has TCS, that's less of an issue). If the price and practicality differences didn't matter to me, I'd get an S2k over an RX8.
I think an RX8 with +/- the same power as the average stock S2000 would be pretty neat. :D