PSkull's rant thread about MS6 vs RX8
12-02-2004, 09:01 AM
#101
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Originally Posted by Pkskull77
I find it extremely offensive that so many people degrade you for wanting a car that’s fast off the line. I don’t understand what’s so bad about that. Nor do I see the comparison between small dicks, and premature ejaculation. I can assure you I have a problem with these issues, but at the same time I do dislike the 8’s acceleration. With the way you get treated bring this topic up you would think I just advocated killing small children. If I have a problem with the acceleration you need to respect that, just as I respect your appreciation for the cars other features. If debates like this did not exist the club would have about 10 threads.
Coming into my purchase I was well aware of the 8’s shortcomings, but not fully informed on how extensive the acceleration issue was. I knew the car was low on ponies, but I believe that it’s weight, and gearing, propped it up. The issue for me isn’t 6 seconds, because that’s plenty fast, its how hard you have to beat it to get there. Dropping the clutch as 7,000 RPM’s is not acceptable, as you can only do that so many times before your buying a new clutch. In reality the 8 is somewhere around 7-7.5 seconds off the line. This is a fact that is not widely advertised in the magazines, shows, and articles describing the 8.
Coming into my purchase I was well aware of the 8’s shortcomings, but not fully informed on how extensive the acceleration issue was. I knew the car was low on ponies, but I believe that it’s weight, and gearing, propped it up. The issue for me isn’t 6 seconds, because that’s plenty fast, its how hard you have to beat it to get there. Dropping the clutch as 7,000 RPM’s is not acceptable, as you can only do that so many times before your buying a new clutch. In reality the 8 is somewhere around 7-7.5 seconds off the line. This is a fact that is not widely advertised in the magazines, shows, and articles describing the 8.
Bob
Last edited by Doctor Bob; 12-02-2004 at 09:03 AM.
12-02-2004, 09:03 AM
#102
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Originally Posted by MazdaspeedFeras
it certainly isnt 7.5 seconds either (maybe with you its 7.5 seconds to 60 but you already admitted you dont drive over 7000 rpm anyway), peak torque is a nice sounding number, but the entire torque curve is what makes a car go...look up your physics and calculus and look at the area under the total torque curve and compare that to other cars and all of a sudden you may see differently, this car was designed to deliver torque over a large powerband, and guess what if you dont use it all you dont get it all. You don't have to dump a clutch to get maximum performance i find feathering from 4500 to 5000 gives me maximum road grip. but you dont really care right, you seem to enjoy self deprecation so keep at it...
Last edited by Pkskull77; 12-02-2004 at 09:07 AM.
12-02-2004, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by truemagellen
Obviously you are obsessed with the Pre-Mature Ejaculative state only torque and torque is all that matters...so you can hop light to light, beating the little teenage snot that pulls up next to you
12-02-2004, 09:12 AM
#104
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Originally Posted by RX8-79
I said 'complete package' meaning it can stop and corner as well as it can accelerate, has luxury features/conveniences, and is fun to drive. The Legacy, in my book, lacks all those.
It's fast, but it can't handle as well as a regular 6, let alone the M/S. It's right at or over $30k for the GT, but doesn't even offer HID, NAV, one-touch up/dwn windows, or keyless start, all of which the M/S will have. Nice car to look at, but not for me.
It's fast, but it can't handle as well as a regular 6, let alone the M/S. It's right at or over $30k for the GT, but doesn't even offer HID, NAV, one-touch up/dwn windows, or keyless start, all of which the M/S will have. Nice car to look at, but not for me.
12-02-2004, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MyRx-8yourcar
First off the Legacy GT is not 30K. I don't know where you got that from but my 05 which I bought in August was 26K....cheaper than my 8. Secondly the stoping power and cornering of the Legacy is very good for a sport sedan and just by adding STI "Pink" springs improves it even moreso. So I think your comment about it not handling as well as the regular 6 is way off. I have driven both and can say that the 6 is no where near the car as the GT. Yes the GT is fast....and will still remain faster than the MS6 stock for stock.
12-02-2004, 09:22 AM
#106
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Originally Posted by Pkskull77
I never said I don't drive over 7000, I just will not go from stopped dropping the clutch at that level. While I've got your attention, what do you mean by feather? When you accelerate using this technique do you get the burning smell?
the key is on not mashing the gas, but methodically pushing the gas harder as you lift your foot off the clutch.
12-02-2004, 09:40 AM
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Do most of you guys who give the 8 a quick start from a stopped position, feel like your abusing the car? Anytime I take of quick, I honestly feel like something’s going to break? In my experience if it feels that way you should back off!
I have never really owned a sports car so I don't know if this is unusual but the RX-8 just feels really delicate when I drive it. Every time I mash it hard I worry about breaking it. Have any of the guys who owned something sport before the 8 experienced this in their former cars?
I have never really owned a sports car so I don't know if this is unusual but the RX-8 just feels really delicate when I drive it. Every time I mash it hard I worry about breaking it. Have any of the guys who owned something sport before the 8 experienced this in their former cars?
12-02-2004, 09:49 AM
#108
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Originally Posted by Pkskull77
Do most of you guys who give the 8 a quick start from a stopped position, feel like your abusing the car? Anytime I take of quick, I honestly feel like something’s going to break? In my experience if it feels that way you should back off!
I have never really owned a sports car so I don't know if this is unusual but the RX-8 just feels really delicate when I drive it. Every time I mash it hard I worry about breaking it. Have any of the guys who owned something sport before the 8 experienced this in their former cars?
I have never really owned a sports car so I don't know if this is unusual but the RX-8 just feels really delicate when I drive it. Every time I mash it hard I worry about breaking it. Have any of the guys who owned something sport before the 8 experienced this in their former cars?
ive driven a 240SX and on a few occassions a porsche 996 C4 and i can say both those cars never felt delicate. Same here.
12-02-2004, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Pkskull77
I've seen this video before, and the car looks impressive, but something strange is afoot. I'm convinced that Mazda greased his pockets. Although the 8 is easier for a beginer to drive fast, a true proffesional driving both cars could easily put up a better time in the 350z. Then they get really silly and rank it with the M3. I don't know how scientific the laps were, but the RX-8 can't hold a candle to the M3.
This is one of the articles that convinced me to go with the RX-8 over the Zed. If I was going to defend the 8, this is the video I would use. I just don't buy their results.
This is one of the articles that convinced me to go with the RX-8 over the Zed. If I was going to defend the 8, this is the video I would use. I just don't buy their results.
The Trap speeds on the 350z and the Rx8 are very close, 92, and 95 mph I think. And as for how well he drove the 8 in the video, I think there is actually much room for improvement. He was all over the track, and lost the back end alot. I think if he really worked at it, he could get the time down. I am currently looking for the 350z video to compare.
12-02-2004, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by IcemanVKO
The Trap speeds on the 350z and the Rx8 are very close, 92, and 95 mph I think.
Pkskull - I know what you mean about the RX8 needing to be rung out to beat the average SUV. While the RX8 is certainly quicker at any speed, at low speeds most cars/trucks are fairly quick. Especially when they have a boat load of low end torque (full size trucks). It's at the high end that sports car really shine and easily pull away. And by high end I mean 60mph+.
Also, don't worry about your clutch with high rpm shifts. 90% of the wear and tear on a clutch is getting started. Up and down shifts hardly do a thing. The RX8 needs all 9000 rpms to feel quick, imposing a 7000 rpm limit would drastically reduce maximum acceleration.
Last edited by AbusiveWombat; 12-02-2004 at 10:57 AM.
12-02-2004, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by AbusiveWombat
Actually the 350z traps around 100 mph on average.
Pkskull - I know what you mean about the RX8 needing to be rung out to beat the average SUV. While the RX8 is certainly quicker at any speed, at low speeds most cars/trucks are fairly quick. Especially when they have a boat load of low end torque (full size trucks). It's at the high end that sports car really shine and easily pull away. And by high end I mean 60mph+.
Also, don't worry about your clutch with high rpm shifts. 90% of the wear and tear on a clutch is getting started. Up and down shifts hardly do a thing. The RX8 needs all 9000 rpms to feel quick, imposing a 7000 rpm limit would drastically reduce maximum acceleration.
Pkskull - I know what you mean about the RX8 needing to be rung out to beat the average SUV. While the RX8 is certainly quicker at any speed, at low speeds most cars/trucks are fairly quick. Especially when they have a boat load of low end torque (full size trucks). It's at the high end that sports car really shine and easily pull away. And by high end I mean 60mph+.
Also, don't worry about your clutch with high rpm shifts. 90% of the wear and tear on a clutch is getting started. Up and down shifts hardly do a thing. The RX8 needs all 9000 rpms to feel quick, imposing a 7000 rpm limit would drastically reduce maximum acceleration.
Thanks for paying attention to what I was saying, as soon as most people see the 8 and acceleration in the same sentence they start flaming. I do not impose a 7000 rpm limit, I just will not drop the clutch from a stop that high. I have taken the 8 all the way to the top.
12-02-2004, 12:08 PM
#113
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Originally Posted by MyRx-8yourcar
The MS6 Numbers are out there... 
12-02-2004, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Pkskull77
This is especially difficult becuase I am a car fanatic, I love driving, and love sports cars.
Since almost all your whinings are about linear acceleration and suburban drag racing, you need a muscle car or a sporty/sports sedan. If most of your thinking involves straight lines then you shouldn't even be interested in sports cars, let alone love them.
Almost all of my commuting involves straight line driving, but I have a great time with my 8. There's about 10 minutes of suburban stop lights, but accelerating in a straight line to the next light holds no interest for me. Then it's about 20 minutes of freeway driving, which is pretty boring. But between those two is a moderately tight, two-lane 270º on-ramp that is great source of fun. I love the way the car's weight shifts on the turn as I adjust the gas pedal, the squeal of the tires on those days I'm feeling really spirited, bringing the car to the outside on the exit, the whine of the engine as it approaches the redline...and especially when there's a muscle car or sports sedan right behind me on the entrance (or better yet, in front of me with the other lane open), and by the time they get to the freeway I'm 200 yds downrange and they're just a dot in my mirror. That single turn makes the whole drive fun; the anticipation, the turn, and the remembering. It's what sports cars are all about.
I've been in the company car and driven by turns with elevation changes or bumps and wished that I had my 8 and how much fun it would be to take those turns. Someday I may even drive the hour it'll take just so I can take those turns a few times. If you don't think like that then you don't want a sports car.
And the MSP Mazda6 looks interesting (but heavy)...just to get it back on topic.
12-02-2004, 02:23 PM
#115
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Originally Posted by ggreen29
Based on your statements so far I think all of these clauses are false. You may think they are true, but the reality is different. If you love driving and love sports cars you should love this car because it's a great sports car (or at least a really good 4 seat sports car-like car). Sports cars are about handling, something that almost never comes up in your complaints. For a sports car the turns are the thing (lateral acceleration). If cornering or suspensions don't interest you most then you shopped in the wrong car category.
Since almost all your whinings are about linear acceleration and suburban drag racing, you need a muscle car or a sporty/sports sedan. If most of your thinking involves straight lines then you shouldn't even be interested in sports cars, let alone love them.
Almost all of my commuting involves straight line driving, but I have a great time with my 8. There's about 10 minutes of suburban stop lights, but accelerating in a straight line to the next light holds no interest for me. Then it's about 20 minutes of freeway driving, which is pretty boring. But between those two is a moderately tight, two-lane 270º on-ramp that is great source of fun. I love the way the car's weight shifts on the turn as I adjust the gas pedal, the squeal of the tires on those days I'm feeling really spirited, bringing the car to the outside on the exit, the whine of the engine as it approaches the redline...and especially when there's a muscle car or sports sedan right behind me on the entrance (or better yet, in front of me with the other lane open), and by the time they get to the freeway I'm 200 yds downrange and they're just a dot in my mirror. That single turn makes the whole drive fun; the anticipation, the turn, and the remembering. It's what sports cars are all about.
I've been in the company car and driven by turns with elevation changes or bumps and wished that I had my 8 and how much fun it would be to take those turns. Someday I may even drive the hour it'll take just so I can take those turns a few times. If you don't think like that then you don't want a sports car.
And the MSP Mazda6 looks interesting (but heavy)...just to get it back on topic.
Since almost all your whinings are about linear acceleration and suburban drag racing, you need a muscle car or a sporty/sports sedan. If most of your thinking involves straight lines then you shouldn't even be interested in sports cars, let alone love them.
Almost all of my commuting involves straight line driving, but I have a great time with my 8. There's about 10 minutes of suburban stop lights, but accelerating in a straight line to the next light holds no interest for me. Then it's about 20 minutes of freeway driving, which is pretty boring. But between those two is a moderately tight, two-lane 270º on-ramp that is great source of fun. I love the way the car's weight shifts on the turn as I adjust the gas pedal, the squeal of the tires on those days I'm feeling really spirited, bringing the car to the outside on the exit, the whine of the engine as it approaches the redline...and especially when there's a muscle car or sports sedan right behind me on the entrance (or better yet, in front of me with the other lane open), and by the time they get to the freeway I'm 200 yds downrange and they're just a dot in my mirror. That single turn makes the whole drive fun; the anticipation, the turn, and the remembering. It's what sports cars are all about.
I've been in the company car and driven by turns with elevation changes or bumps and wished that I had my 8 and how much fun it would be to take those turns. Someday I may even drive the hour it'll take just so I can take those turns a few times. If you don't think like that then you don't want a sports car.
And the MSP Mazda6 looks interesting (but heavy)...just to get it back on topic.
12-02-2004, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MyRx-8yourcar
First off the Legacy GT is not 30K. I don't know where you got that from but my 05 which I bought in August was 26K....cheaper than my 8. Secondly the stoping power and cornering of the Legacy is very good for a sport sedan and just by adding STI "Pink" springs improves it even moreso. So I think your comment about it not handling as well as the regular 6 is way off. I have driven both and can say that the 6 is no where near the car as the GT. Yes the GT is fast....and will still remain faster than the MS6 stock for stock.
Does it offer features such as HID and Nav....well...Subaru will be offering them on all 2005 models to be retrofit the first quarter of 05. The HID is nice...but navigation for my taste doesn't make or break the deal. If you don't know where the hell your going when you leave the house....stay home! The Legacy GT is not a Luxury sedan and has never been toughted at one. If you want your starbucks to stay toasty on the way to work than by a lexus.
12-02-2004, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RX8-TX
Did you drive one? or are you going by magazine reviews? I think you should visit you local Subaru Dealer (too much NPR for me... :p ) and take a look at it...again. Because..."Subaru, driven by what's inside."
12-02-2004, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RX8-79
I meant GT Limited (which seems to be an appropriate moniker), since all the ones I've seen were $30k or above. I'm sure since you bought one you believe the Legacy handles and stops better than the 6, but it doesn't in my book, and test data backs up my opinion. C&D got .81g on the skidpad and 196ft from 70 mph for the LGT back in the Oct. 04. Not only is that worse than all the other cars tested, it's worse than the 6s.
Subaru has aspirations to move upmarket in the automotive chain, they've publicly said so. My point is, if they want to charge near-luxury car prices, justify it with luxury features.
Subaru has aspirations to move upmarket in the automotive chain, they've publicly said so. My point is, if they want to charge near-luxury car prices, justify it with luxury features.
Again...I don't know where your looking, but even the limited doesn't go above 30K; thats STI land. I didn't by one because I think the Legacy handles or stops better than the 6. I bought one because the of the performance of the engine....something the 6 doesn't offer (even the v6) and AWD. Yes, C&D rated the legacy 3rd overall behind the TSX and Volvo S40 and at the same time Road and Track rated it better than both....go figure.
Skid pad numbers and braking distances can vary a bit depending on what tires are on the car. I know the Stock Legacy's tires suck and were the first thing to get tossed off the car. Bottom line is performance wise the 6 compares nothing to the Legacy. The MS6 is close...but performance numbers still show it almost a full second slower than the GT in 0-60 and 1/4 miles times.
Like I said...I have no clue where your lookin, but you can get a 05 Legacy from 24K-28K at best. So no...you are not getting X included in the Legacy for 30K.
12-02-2004, 09:44 PM
#119
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All I can say is when I see the MS 8 I will laugh. I will think back to this guy. He goes and buys a MS 6 because it was released two years after the 8 and was faster (somehow I doubt it will be much faster if it is), but then Mazda releases another car in two more years that is faster than his MS6. I can already see this coming on the 6 boards 
.
.
12-02-2004, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MyRx-8yourcar
Again...I don't know where your looking, but even the limited doesn't go above 30K; thats STI land.
I didn't by one because I think the Legacy handles or stops better than the 6. I bought one because the of the performance of the engine....something the 6 doesn't offer (even the v6) and AWD.
Yes, C&D rated the legacy 3rd overall behind the TSX and Volvo S40 and at the same time Road and Track rated it better than both....go figure.
Bottom line is performance wise the 6 compares nothing to the Legacy. The MS6 is close...but performance numbers still show it almost a full second slower than the GT in 0-60 and 1/4 miles times.
Like I said...I have no clue where your lookin, but you can get a 05 Legacy from 24K-28K at best. So no...you are not getting X included in the Legacy for 30K.
12-03-2004, 07:44 AM
#121
All I can say is when I see the MS 8 I will laugh. I will think back to this guy. He goes and buys a MS 6 because it was released two years after the 8 and was faster (somehow I doubt it will be much faster if it is), but then Mazda releases another car in two more years that is faster than his MS6. I can already see this coming on the 6 boards .
.I don't know why you guys are so angry at your cars. The 8 is an absolutely beautiful vehicle, thats INSANELY fast. It is going to utterly dominate B Stock in Autoxing this year...just watch and see.
What I seriously recommend (if you aren't happy with your car), is to attend some driving schools. If your luckily enough to be in an area with some road courses, look for when driver education programs are occuring.
Heres two in the VA/MD/DC area!
http://www.virclub.com
http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/
You'll learn to drive better, learn to enjoy your car more, and enjoy passing vehicles which you'd think were "impossible" to pass. Even better...the person your passing has to wave you by, so it puts a nice sized grin on your face
.If your looking for more specific training, check out...
http://solo.wdcr-scca.org/noviceSchool.php
The weekday autocrossing is excellent if you can get enough people to bring the cost down.
Also check out...
http://www.autocross.com/evolution/
Everyone can learn to be a better driver, regardless of make or model vehicle. Some insurance companies will even knock off some $$ if you show them your actively taking "driver education" courses.
I've attended the evo school myself, and will be going back for phase 2 before the season next year, as well as attending vir's new opening later in 05. I know I'm not a good driver, but I'm working to improve
.
12-03-2004, 09:11 AM
#122
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In the 8s reliability defense--I have not had any issues with my RX8--also N/A rotaries have typically gone well over 200,000miles. The FD is an exception because Mazda used some weak components in the cooling area of the 13B--plus the extra stresses from the added boost.
12-03-2004, 09:30 AM
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Yes if I could forsee the future, and know that an RX8 would last 200k miles, I'd have a very tough time not buying one.
However, the highest millage I've seen on one is about 30k, so there really isn't much info on this area yet.
Ofcourse the same could be said about a Turbo Charged Direct Fuel Injection Gas Engine.
Where can I read more about the Turbo and Supercharger kits that might become available for the Rx8?
However, the highest millage I've seen on one is about 30k, so there really isn't much info on this area yet.
Ofcourse the same could be said about a Turbo Charged Direct Fuel Injection Gas Engine.
Where can I read more about the Turbo and Supercharger kits that might become available for the Rx8?
12-03-2004, 09:34 AM
#124
Originally Posted by IcemanVKO
There there is the rareness. The MS6 will likely be much more rare, than the 8, but will likely not catch as many looks.
12-03-2004, 09:56 AM
#125
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Originally Posted by IcemanVKO
I am torn between a car that will be fast, handle well, with room to spare, and a slightly less practical, yet sexy eye catcher, with a unique yet quirky engine.